^ Well you are most vulnerable to relapse during that period of time, so being in rehab for 3 months would be better than 1 month. That's what I meant by it. It takes a lot longer than 1 month to address these issues. Addiction progresses over a long period of time, which is why 1 month rehabs don't work very well, since it's not enough time to address these issues.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids How long should one take Suboxone in order to get off methadone?
- Thread starter Swimmingdancer
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Cane2theLeft
Bluelight Crew
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- Jun 21, 2008
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- 12,673
It very well might not be any worse in severity, I'd be more concerned about it continuing for untenable lengths.
You certainly have a very commendable attitude and it's one I strive for personally (getting off prescription drugs to manage chronic pain for example). I just hate seeing people suffer and I was worried that, as many I've encountered are, you wouldn't be fully informed about what is to come but it's apparent this isn't the case. You seem plenty informed and reasonable enough to figure out the best course of action for you. I just really hope that you don't have to suffer needlessly to attain freedom from dependence.
Please do keep us updated on what you decide and how it works out for you. I'm going into the treatment field and the more people's experiences I hear about, the better I can possibly help people who are trying to free themselves from these dependencies.
You really should be proud of how far you've come already. I know it has to be incredibly difficult dealing with all of this.
You certainly have a very commendable attitude and it's one I strive for personally (getting off prescription drugs to manage chronic pain for example). I just hate seeing people suffer and I was worried that, as many I've encountered are, you wouldn't be fully informed about what is to come but it's apparent this isn't the case. You seem plenty informed and reasonable enough to figure out the best course of action for you. I just really hope that you don't have to suffer needlessly to attain freedom from dependence.
Please do keep us updated on what you decide and how it works out for you. I'm going into the treatment field and the more people's experiences I hear about, the better I can possibly help people who are trying to free themselves from these dependencies.
You really should be proud of how far you've come already. I know it has to be incredibly difficult dealing with all of this.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Have you read all my posts above? If you consider "addiction" and "physical dependence" as used in the medical context, I am not "addicted" to methadone, I am physically dependent on methadone. I was addicted to heroin. You can be physically dependent on something without being addicted (and vice versa). I have already been off all other drugs for years (and no it wasn't when I started taking methadone that I stopped using heroin, methadone was never an effective replacement for me). I have already made major changes in my life and gone to counseling and have a great support system and all that. I don't think that stopping methadone completely is going to make me any more likely to relapse than I already am. And if I have any cravings or mental health issues I want to work on I don't see how being in rehab is going to be any different from being at home. That is just for me, I have a unique situation and I understand what you are saying. If I were still actively using heroin it would be a completely different story. I understand detox is not a treatment for addiction, I am not looking for one, just a treatment to minimize the pain of withdrawal.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Yep, that is a huge concern for me. But I can't predict how long it will last and fear of the unknown is a harmful thing and keeps many people from even attempting to stop taking opioids. All I can do is try.
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Cane2theLeft
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You're largely right about addiction and physical dependence but there is a reason why the DSM-IV differentiates between people who have met criteria for 'substance dependence disorder' (their outdated nomenclature for 'addicted' - a condition considered life-long) who are in remission but are on agonist therapy (listed in the course modifiers section). Treatment consideration differ.
Maintenance in a lot of ways presses the 'pause' button for people and it's not until you are completely off substances that the reasons why you originally got addicted come back and smack you in the face... perhaps this is trauma or abuse from the past, underlying mental health conditions, other issues or a combination of several but for many people, there is a similar deterioration in well-being coming off agonist therapy after a substantial period of stability that is reminiscent of addicted individuals getting clean.
I would not say you are actively addicted but clinically speaking, addiction is a life-long condition and it's the physical dependence that is temporary. If you have met the criteria for 'substance dependence disorder' then you likely do have problems that originally lead you to become addicted that need to be addressed to maintain sobriety and not be miserable. Maybe you fixed these problems since you've been on methadone but for a lot of people, they just hide under the surface and they do need professional help to address them if they try to come off the methadone. Like recreational use of opioids, there is a numbing effect and you don't feel the full-force of these issues and they don't fully disappear simply because you haven't been focusing on them for a while.
I hope you have a smooth transition but it's simply not that easy for most people which is why I think tommy suggested a little assistance for a while during this period.
Maintenance in a lot of ways presses the 'pause' button for people and it's not until you are completely off substances that the reasons why you originally got addicted come back and smack you in the face... perhaps this is trauma or abuse from the past, underlying mental health conditions, other issues or a combination of several but for many people, there is a similar deterioration in well-being coming off agonist therapy after a substantial period of stability that is reminiscent of addicted individuals getting clean.
I would not say you are actively addicted but clinically speaking, addiction is a life-long condition and it's the physical dependence that is temporary. If you have met the criteria for 'substance dependence disorder' then you likely do have problems that originally lead you to become addicted that need to be addressed to maintain sobriety and not be miserable. Maybe you fixed these problems since you've been on methadone but for a lot of people, they just hide under the surface and they do need professional help to address them if they try to come off the methadone. Like recreational use of opioids, there is a numbing effect and you don't feel the full-force of these issues and they don't fully disappear simply because you haven't been focusing on them for a while.
I hope you have a smooth transition but it's simply not that easy for most people which is why I think tommy suggested a little assistance for a while during this period.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
I second that 30 days is nowhere near enough time, 90 would be much better.
Yes I have read all of your posts, and I am very aware that one can be dependent on a substance without being addicted, and vice versa.
I was on suboxone for 18 months, didn't get high on other opiates aside from one time, was in outpatient treatment that whole time, and after completing it I went away to school, detoxed off the suboxone there, and guess what I did a few months later? I got right back on the H train. Luckily it was just over winter break, and I left it behind when I went back to school, but I continued to relapse sometimes when I would go back to my hometown.
So when it comes down to it our situations are pretty similar, so I was talking from personal experience after reading all of your posts. Things are a lot different once you are off of the maintenance drug, even if you don't think it now. I barely even thought about drugs when I was on suboxone, and it was really easy for me to go a while without any cravings at all. Something just really changed once I got off the suboxone. For a little while I felt better (after the acute withdrawal of course) but then I went on a binge over winter break after having a few months off of the suboxone.
Treatment is good while you are on a maintenance drug, and I hope you can stay clean once you get off the methadone, but take your treatment seriously still when you get off of the maintenance drug. Just don't think that you can predict how you will feel once you stop taking the methadone, even if you feel that the methadone never really worked well for you.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
I don't think that we are in a similar situation. Methadone never alleviated my cravings, I used all the time for quite some time when I was first on methadone. It took a lot of changes in my life and long hard work to get to a point where I was able to stop using heroin. I feel like utter shit and have really bad withdrawal symptoms and depression already, did you feel that way before you stopped the Suboxone?
I am already doing a lot to cope and to treat the addiction aspect and have a lot of support. I am certainly taking my treatment seriously. I just don't feel that being in rehab for 3 months would be a helpful treatment for me and besides that it isn't an option.
Relapse is always a possibility and of course no one has a way to predict the future. I just don't think that PAWS is going to be any worse than how I already feel but I am concerned with being able to bear these symptoms for an extended amount of time (although I have already had them since November with no relapse). If I had felt this way years ago I would have relapsed in a heartbeat.
I have also made it extremely difficult for myself to access heroin, which I think helps.
Anyway, I'm definitely not saying I think everything will be easy when I get off methadone, it is already not at all easy. I want help with that. But what I am looking for right now is a quick way to get off methadone without going cold turkey and without worsening my acute withdrawal symptoms.
^ I went from 16mg of suboxone to nothing is 3 weeks, so not much better than cold turkey, so I didn't really have a legit taper so I can't comment on how I felt during tapering.
I don't have any answers to anything else really.
I don't have any answers to anything else really.
If people had the ability to know in advance when they where going to get the flu I believe support groups would pop up. After you detox it's all in your head, talk to PAWS victims in prison, if you can find them. Is PAWS real? yes, does it happen often? no. Depending on your environment has a lot to do with it, your brain can only handle few major events at a time. Imagine a combat situation, people shooting at you trying to kill you, PAWS, what PAWS. The more one can do to change ones life from the life they lived as a user and ones desire to stop have a major impact on your results and well being. If you ask user who had to kick in prison/jail they will tell you it was easier. Sure the initial part sucked balls but once that past the chance of getting high was zero and the thoughts and craving diminished quickly. The mind is a very powerful thing, people survived 40-60 days in almost hellish conditions stranded and thru the ability of their mind survived. Youtube has a post of a WW2 story where 3 guys survived being shot down and found themselves in a raft in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. They where out there some ridiculous amount of time. One guy kept losing it, "where going to die" you know that shit. It got so bad one of the other dudes had to smack him back to reality and say no we will survive. Long story short-the guy who kept losing it did die, the other two dudes survived. The mind is very powerful, and it can beat PAWS. Soldiers coming home without limbs, eyes, etc. would scoff at this, and trade places in a minute. They would consider that a real get out of jail card compared to what they been thru and what they are going thru