• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Opioids How long should one take Suboxone in order to get off methadone?

Swimmingdancer

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
5,430
Location
The Republic of Bluelight
So I've been on methadone for 10 years and am currently in the process of a slow and painful taper. So far I have gradually tapered from 50mg every 12 hrs (100mg/day) down to 4mg every 12 hrs (8mgs a day). I have really bad withdrawal symptoms all the time and horrible depression (both of which are just getting worse the lower my dose gets). So far I have really resisted switching to Suboxone for a number of reasons, but am starting to consider it because I've heard a lot of people on here say that tapering off Suboxone after being on it short-term is a piece of cake compared to coming off methadone. However, one thing that I heard is that since the worst of methadone withdrawals last 4-6 wks (not even including PAWS) that you need to take the Suboxone for longer than that in order to give enough time for the methadone withdrawals it is masking to be gone before you taper off the Suboxone, otherwise you will still be feeling the methadone withdrawals when you stop the Suboxone. Anyone know if that is true?

And if it is true, then would being on Suboxone for 2 months cause bad withdrawals? (I know it is different for everyone, but in general?) Or would people recommend taking the Suboxone for a shorter or longer amount of time or what?

Also anyone had side effects with Suboxone?

Thanks.
 
If my cousin is up im going to give her a call for you. She was on Methadone for years and switched to subs after she felt too shitty on her Done taper. So I'll try and find out for you real quick she may be asleep though she works at night.
 
She answered but i woke her up so she said shes too tired to talk about it right now, when she wakes up she'll give me a call back, Hopefully someone else can help you sooner, but if not i'll definitely tell you what she tells me about your situation. She was on methadone for about 8 years i think, so yous arnt too far off and i know she was on a huge dose of it, around the 250-300mg mark ( or so she says ) so hopefully she can help you. i'll get back to you when she gets back to me.

Until then be safe and sorry about your wd's that taper sounds WAY to fast did you leave the clinic or something?

-B
 
That would be awesome, thanks very much.

No my taper is not fast, it has been over the period of about a year. I didn't mean that I jumped from 100mg to 8mg, just that I very gradually lowered my dose, at first by about 5mg/month and lately by like 2mg a month. Once I was down to under about 40mg/day I started having almost constant withdrawal symptoms and they have been getting worse and worse the lower I go. I just want to get off it but I'm terrified the WDs will be absolutely unbearable if I just stop taking it completely. I already have diarrhea every morning and often at night (I take my methadone twice a day) and RLS, severe depression, total lack of motivation, fatigue, bone/muscle aches, sweating, nausea, chills, allodynia, insomnia, all that kind of stuff. The only WD symptoms I don't experience very often are the ticking/choking cough, heart pain/palpitations and frequent or severe vomiting (and suicide, if you consider that a WD symptom lol). But I'm afraid that all my symptoms would be much worse if I just stop the methadone cold turkey.
 
Last edited:
being on suboxone and getting off suboxone is no "piece of cake". suboxone is a terrible drug. and yes you will feel w/ds after using it for two months, i definatly did and coming off of that orange sh*t is terrible. not tryin to burst your bubble here but i hate sub, it takes a good two months to almost feel normal after getting off of it. talk to your dr about it. i jus strongly agree its not the way to go..
 
I do agree somewhat with the poster above me about how it is STILL hard to come off suboxone but from what im told compared to methadone and with the proper taper it shouldn't be all that bad...

I'm sorry i have not gotten back to you yet my cousin is a bit of a wild card, i'll hear from her here and there because she seems to relapse alot and you know how people get when they relapse they avoid friends or family they know will notice. I know she will definitely call just not sure when, hopefully sooner so i can help you out. As soon as she does i will get to a phone or computer and let you know. I don't want to see you got through precips or any of un needed dreaded discomforts.

Until then stay safe,
-B
 
being on suboxone and getting off suboxone is no "piece of cake". suboxone is a terrible drug. and yes you will feel w/ds after using it for two months, i definatly did and coming off of that orange sh*t is terrible. not tryin to burst your bubble here but i hate sub, it takes a good two months to almost feel normal after getting off of it. talk to your dr about it. i jus strongly agree its not the way to go..

Well what I was told was that it was a "piece of cake" getting off Suboxone after a short time in comparison to getting off methadone after a long time, and also that Suboxone had less withdrawal symptoms with a gradual taper than methadone with a gradual taper.

I did ask several doctors about Suboxone and they all recommended it and claimed that I should have very minimal withdrawal symptoms, if any, if I taper off of it. But I do not trust doctors about these kinds of things and would rather hear from people like yourself who have actually experienced it.

When you said one will feel WDs after using Suboxone for 2 months and that it takes 2 months to feel normal after getting off of it, did you mean when one quits cold turkey or when one uses a gradual taper, or both? And how severe are the WDs? (of course I understand that one would get WDs after taking it for 2 months when stopping abruptly, but a lot of people claim that the WDs are relatively minor when one tapers).

How long were you on Suboxone and how did you quit?

I'm sorry i have not gotten back to you yet my cousin is a bit of a wild card, i'll hear from her here and there because she seems to relapse alot and you know how people get when they relapse they avoid friends or family they know will notice. I know she will definitely call just not sure when, hopefully sooner so i can help you out. As soon as she does i will get to a phone or computer and let you know. I don't want to see you got through precips or any of un needed dreaded discomforts.

Thank you again. I am terrified of precipitated withdrawals and even the idea of going days without using methadone beforehand, that's a big part of why I've resisted the idea of switching to Suboxone for so long. And if the WDs would be just as bad as methadone then it's definitely not worth it. But a lot of people say that they aren't.

My main question is still about whether one would still be experiencing the methadone withdrawals after one switched to Suboxone and then tapered off. I've had a few people tell me that the Suboxone is basically masking or alleviating the methadone withdrawals but they are still there if you don't take the Suboxone long enough, so basically when you stop the Suboxone you would be feeling the WDs from the Suboxone plus the remaining WDs from the methadone. Same principle applies to switching to a shorter acting opioid. Does anyone know if this is true?
 
Having been through both, I can tell you that methadone withdrawals are ungodly compared to suboxone withdrawals. I would never recommend suboxone long-term (longer than a week) to anyone because it has worse withdrawals and post-acute withdrawals than any short-term opiate I've ever done -- unless you were using it to come off of methadone.

My main question is still about whether one would still be experiencing the methadone withdrawals after one switched to Suboxone and then tapered off. I've had a few people tell me that the Suboxone is basically masking or alleviating the methadone withdrawals but they are still there if you don't take the Suboxone long enough, so basically when you stop the Suboxone you would be feeling the WDs from the Suboxone plus the remaining WDs from the methadone. Same principle applies to switching to a shorter acting opioid. Does anyone know if this is true?

Yeah, it's true. Methadone has a really long half-life and it could take months for your body to completely get rid of the methadone in your system. You'll want to be on subs until that happens, and then you come off the subs. Be warned though: once you come off of opiates completely you're going to have the worst post-acute withdrawals you could imagine. While you're on suboxone your brain can't completely heal from the methadone (and your brain probably hasn't healed completely from the heroin or whatever opiates you were doing before the methadone), so you still have to deal with the mental pain of withdrawals that you have been putting off for years.
 
i have taken subs for over a year. however i had tried to kick it a few times. first time was after a couple months of use and i had tapered down as much as i could and i did go into w/ds, i made it through probably 4 weeks of being off of them and i was still feeling like crap. so i got back on them, and tried the same thing a couple more times. when i finally quit i had some kratom then and it really helped me alot. i used to have a friend that went off of them cold turkey and still felt like crap two months later. but everyone is different and how their bodies react to it. there has been some that didnt feel too much discomfort when others felt horrible. i dont blame you for not trusting drs. i dont think alot of them know how long the half life is on these orange bastards. soo pretty much my point is i only recommend them for short time use. BUT sub can be better if your gunna do that kind of thing, methadone does build up in your body, extremely.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Effuzion and Baerr. I'm still really unsure of what to do. There are so many downsides to switching to Suboxone so it's only worth it to me if it will seriously reduce my withdrawal symptoms. But I guess there is no way to know for sure beforehand. Plus I've heard that a lot of people experience side effects with Suboxone. Sigh, I feel so hopeless right now and really don't know what to do. I really feel like I can't bear this long slow torturous methadone taper much longer :-(

I guess I am really sensitive to withdrawals, plus I am a "fast metabolizer" and the effects of methadone don't last very long for me and I'm sure this is all made much worse by the fact that I've been taking it for 10 years. I feel like I have all the symptoms of PAWS and the majority of the symptoms of acute withdrawal ever since I got to below about 40mg/day (of course they've gotten much worse in the past few months as my dose has gotten lower and lower). I can't even work or do anything and sometimes I wonder if getting off methadone is worth this.
 
Were you successful maintaining on methadone? By that I mean, were you able to get out of the lifestyle, move on, etc?

I am just trying to understand your motivation to get off maintenance altogether. For a lot of people, they do substantially better when they are on some kind of opioid then when they are off of them. Best case scenario, you are probably going to continue to struggle with the taper and then feel like shit for at least a few months due to PAWS when you are completely off both or either drug. It's possible that the PAWS will last longer or that you will not feel very good for even longer.. craving might return and you just might not be able to function nearly as well off of these drugs as on them.

I am usually REALLY hesitant to recommend maintenance and for most people would rather see them using methadone or buprenorphine for quick tapers if possibly but for someone who has been on opioids for over 10 years, I just worry about what is going to happen once your taper(s) end and what motivation you have for wanting to get off these if maintaining has been successful. Is the methadone maintenance causing any problems for you?
 
I think being clean is worth it. PAWS sucks and you're gonna be a shell of yourself for a little bit, but once you get to a certain point it's better than being on drugs. Once you hit that point you'll wonder why you even did drugs in the first place.
 
Were you successful maintaining on methadone? By that I mean, were you able to get out of the lifestyle, move on, etc?

I am just trying to understand your motivation to get off maintenance altogether. For a lot of people, they do substantially better when they are on some kind of opioid then when they are off of them. Best case scenario, you are probably going to continue to struggle with the taper and then feel like shit for at least a few months due to PAWS when you are completely off both or either drug. It's possible that the PAWS will last longer or that you will not feel very good for even longer.. craving might return and you just might not be able to function nearly as well off of these drugs as on them.

I am usually REALLY hesitant to recommend maintenance and for most people would rather see them using methadone or buprenorphine for quick tapers if possibly but for someone who has been on opioids for over 10 years, I just worry about what is going to happen once your taper(s) end and what motivation you have for wanting to get off these if maintaining has been successful. Is the methadone maintenance causing any problems for you?


I have been clean from other opioids for years, except for a couple Tylenol with codeine over the past week in a (failed) attempt to help with the methadone withdrawals and once in a while a small dose of loperamide. I don't drink at all and the only drug I take (other than short-term as legitimately prescribed like if I have an injury or infection or something) is occasionally ayahuasca (to help with the physical dependence to methadone and general mental healing). I have an extremely supportive and loving partner and a comfortable life with no serious problems other than with my brain and body.

I feel that methadone is solely a physical dependence for me. I am in control of my actions and when/whether I take it and I have never had any addictive behaviours surrounding it. I continue to take it as a conscious decision because I feel too sick to function at all when I stop it abruptly. I feel like absolute shit all the time now that my dose is so low, but it's still slightly better than stopping it completely. I have never had a craving for methadone, never gotten "high" off it, never taken more than prescribed. When I used to lower my dose or stop taking methadone I would get cravings for heroin, never methadone. I have never had an addiction to any drug other than heroin or taken other opioids "recreationally". I no longer get any serious or lasting cravings for heroin and it would be extremely difficult to get any if I did want to use it, because I live in a different city and don't even have the number to my old dealer. I don't have any friends who use drugs.

The main reason I want to get off methadone is because I hate being dependent on something. I hate being at the mercy of doctors and pharmacists. I hate not being able to do things that most people who aren't dependent on a controlled medication with a social stigma can do. I travel a lot and I get afraid of what would happen if my return flight were delayed, or if I went to a country where methadone was illegal. Once I had my methadone in my checked luggage and they lost my luggage. I would love to move to a different country someday. I have had the pharmacy screw up and refuse to give me my methadone. I have gone to the pharmacy only to be told they were out of methadone. I have had my doctor go on vacation without telling me.

I don't like having such little control over my health or the way I feel. It is very hard to feel free when I am physically dependent on methadone.
 
Last edited:
I can understand your rationale but you'll still likely experience PAWS for a while after you get off of them completely and I hope that you are prepared to deal with that; given the duration of your use (even if you weren't abusing your doses) the PAWS has the potential to be pretty bad. There are ways to mitigate and potentially expedite the process so it'd be a great idea to read up on those going into it and have realistic expectations.

I just really didn't want you to think that once you're done with opioids completely that you'll be fine and feel great and then get smacked in the face with the misery of PAWS. Perhaps it won't be too bad and you'll be able to deal with it fine but I haven't met someone who used large doses for anywhere near as long as you have (whether recreationally, medicinally or via maintenance) not have any symptoms of PAWS at all. Hopefully gradually tapering as you have been will help mitigate this though and it won't be too bad!
 
I'm sure I will have bad and long-lasting PAWS, but it won't be a smack in the face as I've already been experiencing it for months and months. It's not like I feel fine now and once I stop the methadone I will suddenly feel awful. I already feel awful. I think I am geting PAWS from decreasing my methadone use. As I said, I already have serious mental and physical withdrawal symptoms all the time. The only thing that worries me is the potential of continuing to feel this way (aside from the physical symptoms like diarrhea and vomiting, which I assume will go away) for years. I am so tired and worn-out already. My only choices are to go back up to a much higher dose of methadone and stop trying to get off it, to continue my taper and eventually stop taking it, or to go to a short-term detox and taper off it much faster with the help of other meds (although I am having trouble finding such a detox).
 
I'm not sure you've been experiencing PAWS for months. By definition, PAWS is the symptoms that occur POST acute withdrawal and you've been withdrawing because you're tapering, right?

I'm not sure detox will be much benefit... you'll expedite the process of getting off them but I worry you'll overall feel worse once the drugs are out of your system completely. The prospect of feeling shitty for years is unfortunately very real and I'd hate for you to have to endure that!

Have you considered suboxone maintenance? Aside from lacking much of the stigma of methadone, you no longer have to take daily trips to the clinic, you can possess larger quantities so you don't have to worry about flight delays and so forth. You WILL still be dependent but if our fears are correct and this shittiness does persist for years, is that a more desirable outcome?

Long-term opioid users display characteristics consistent with the contention that addiction is a disease and like any other disease, will require treatment for you to have a better quality of life. For many, this means taking a maintenance medication and I don't think you should feel any worse about taking something necesarry to feel better than someone who takes beta blockers for hypertension. They are also physically dependent but rarely lament this fact.
 
If you can, go to a 30-day rehab where they pamper the shit out of you, not a detox. Detox is great for just getting off the drugs, but the hard part is getting through those first couple weeks without anything. If you go to a 30 day facility you won't have to worry about anything (including basic shit, like preparing food) except doing what you need to do to feel better.
 
^ I think that something a little longer like a 3 month treatment facility would be better if they are choosing to go the rehab route. One month should be enough time for the body to get back to normal, but the PAWS will still be an issue.

Did anyone mention the issue with having to wait a few days after your last dose of methadone to be able to dose the suboxone? That's a pretty big issue since you will probably have to go through some pretty bad withdrawals just to be able to switch to the suboxone and not risk precipitated withdrawals. I say just finish out the methadone taper, see how you are doing after 5 days, and then decide if you want to maintain on suboxone for a little while then taper off of that, or just do another short taper with it. It's a lot of work though just to detox once, so doing it again might not be worth it unless you think the suboxone will really help. The actual switch is definitely something that you need to think about and plan out well.
 
I'm not sure you've been experiencing PAWS for months. By definition, PAWS is the symptoms that occur POST acute withdrawal and you've been withdrawing because you're tapering, right?

I'm not sure detox will be much benefit... you'll expedite the process of getting off them but I worry you'll overall feel worse once the drugs are out of your system completely. The prospect of feeling shitty for years is unfortunately very real and I'd hate for you to have to endure that!

Have you considered suboxone maintenance? Aside from lacking much of the stigma of methadone, you no longer have to take daily trips to the clinic, you can possess larger quantities so you don't have to worry about flight delays and so forth. You WILL still be dependent but if our fears are correct and this shittiness does persist for years, is that a more desirable outcome?

Long-term opioid users display characteristics consistent with the contention that addiction is a disease and like any other disease, will require treatment for you to have a better quality of life. For many, this means taking a maintenance medication and I don't think you should feel any worse about taking something necesarry to feel better than someone who takes beta blockers for hypertension. They are also physically dependent but rarely lament this fact.

I don't want to be dependent on any prescription medication. I would feel only slightly better if it were for a different health condition (in that it would be easier on me and more socially and legally acceptable and not have the same restrictions or crap treatment by medical pros). I know this is an uncommon way of thinking in Western culture, but I don't think that lifetime drugs are the answer for the vast majority of diseases. With any disease or health issue I would much rather look into finding and treating the causes than just masking the symptoms, and finding natural and holistic methods of healing.

Suboxone, as I said above, is something that I am really not interested in taking for a number of reasons. I am only slightly considering the possibility of taking it short-term.

As to whether I am in fact experiencing PAWS, it doesn't really matter what you call it, but the way my Dr explained it is that after a significant decrease in my dose (particularly after I got down below a certain level) at first I get acute withdrawal symptoms for about a month or so, then my body starts to adjust and I get PAWS, just like if one stops taking the drug completely. Then these dose decreases are also compounding, so I'm still feeling symptoms now from a dose decrease months ago even though I've decreased my dose again since.

PAWS is also not some totally separate thing from acute WDS in that while in acute withdrawal you still get all the same symptoms of PAWS, it's just that some of these symptoms carry on happening after the "acute" stage is over. You may not be shitting and puking and shivering anymore but you will be depressed, anxious, have difficulty sleeping, etc (and would have had all these problems during the acute stage of WD as well). So I'm just saying (and what my doctor says) is that it isn't going to be much worse, (if at all), after I stop taking methadone completely, than it is now. Not that it isn't already horrible. In fact, my Dr thinks that I may just be prolonging my agony by tapering slowly.
 
If you can, go to a 30-day rehab where they pamper the shit out of you, not a detox. Detox is great for just getting off the drugs, but the hard part is getting through those first couple weeks without anything. If you go to a 30 day facility you won't have to worry about anything (including basic shit, like preparing food) except doing what you need to do to feel better.
Yeah, the problem is I haven't been able to find any rehabs that aren't just cold-turkey and NA meetings. They're basically just like jails to physically prevent you from using, which I don't feel I need, plus a bit of counseling. Also I do not personally believe in AA/NA, for me.

^ I think that something a little longer like a 3 month treatment facility would be better if they are choosing to go the rehab route. One month should be enough time for the body to get back to normal, but the PAWS will still be an issue.
Not sure how being in rehab for 3 months is going to help with PAWS, unless they can give me meds to help with it that my dr is unlikely to give me. And I really can't go somewhere for that long, not to mention it costs a fortune.

Did anyone mention the issue with having to wait a few days after your last dose of methadone to be able to dose the suboxone?
Oh yeah and that is one of the major reasons I would really not prefer to switch to Suboxone.
 
Top