How is the new Ontario Narcotic Monitoring Sytem affecting you?

[EllaMentalWitch]

I have been searching around and haven't found much at all about our new laws in Ontario and the introduction of the Ontario Narcotic(s) Monitoring System. I am wondering how it is affecting, or not affecting those who are on any of the Controlled Sustances or are in a position to be picked for "flagging".
I know it has affected me adversely already and am interested to see if this is/had already begun causing hell on earth for pain sufferers and addicts alike, with not much real discrimination between the two.

Needless to say, I am hoping I am not the only one who is being royally fucked by this new system only after it being in effect for appox. 3 weeks. What have been your experiences?

I spoke to a friend, who, dealing with chronic, life-alteringly terrible pain from several ailments/injuries has considered taking to finding and using heroin (or whatever she can find from wherever) to deal with the very real pain concerns she has now that she is unable to obtain her proper scripts and is now being looked at as an addiction.

Say a person does not have a GP and has to use a walk-in for their medication needs and as it is not always easy to use the same physician (double doctoring). And this will be until such time as a GP will accept a person as a patient(never, because you are on narcotics).Seeing as ER doctors are only concerned with dealing with pain for the amount of time patients are in their care, this is not a convenient way to deal with pain control issues.This person has probably applied to the closest pain clinic and been told that unless you are dying imminently, the wait is three years. As well, not every pharmacy carries the specific brand (Ratio, d/t an allergy to glue on others) or dose (100mcgs q 2days) that are needed to fill some particular prescriptions (poly-pharmacy) Also most doctors, being wary of prescribing such medications from clinics, prescribe small amounts of two weeks to a month (filling the same drug twice in a 28-day time period). If you were counting, that is three flags, THE same three flags it takes for patients to be labelled a "potential" ( haha, aren't we all just potential addicts?) addict and even be reported to the police.

Knowing my friend would rather do everything to the letter of the law and not get involved in the world of illegal drugs and illegal ways to obtain such drugs, it truly is making me wonder what good will come of this NMS and its fallout on both chronic pain sufferers and those addicted to such medication when they can't get their meds (either way). I have noticed an enormous rise in small pharmacy break-in where large amounts of narcotics have been stolen and can't help but think this must be what some are resorting to to get their drugs,for legal OR recreational use.

Please, share you experiences and help me and my friend to not feel like totally alone criminals 8(

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This might be more appropriate for the North & South American Social & Drug Discussion forum, but I don't know if that forum gets that many views...


This is really upsetting I hate the current Canadian government. We are going really backwards with our drug laws. Do you know if this is a pilot project that will spread to other provinces?

The only thing I can really suggest is writing to your local MLA and complaining.

I don't live in Ontario, so I have no personal experience with the ONMS, but I have had pretty bad experiences trying to get effective and compassionate medical care already and can only imagine how bad it would be with the NMS added.

 

[Ksa]

There will be a novel painkiller soon, non opioid that will be stronger than anything you've ever seen. Just wait a few more years.

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

Swimming
I know that for some provinces, such as Alberta, they have had similar tracking in place and that some of the Atlantic provinces will be coming on board with this as well, but no idea when, as they are just kinda floating around it right now.

I don't know if writing anyone will help, as it seems once you are deemed an addict, you are no longer a person of any value. This is NOT my opinion personally though, and I plan to write some strongly worded items once I have a bit more information about how this is affecting others in a pain situation, not a recreational one. Though both are valid reasons, I guess, and any info will help :D I understand your management problems completely, I'm sure...

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

Ksa;

If this is true, I will be rejoicing VERY loudly. But as it is, I've tried lots of non-opiod pain relief options and none have worked as well, for me, as the fentanyl patch. I am pretty much into trying ANYTHING non-opiate that even has a chance of helping with pain. Any hints as to what this miracle will be?

 

[Ksa]

Ksa;

If this is true, I will be rejoicing VERY loudly. But as it is, I've tried lots of non-opiod pain relief options and none have worked as well, for me, as the fentanyl patch. I am pretty much into trying ANYTHING non-opiate that even has a chance of helping with pain. Any hints as to what this miracle will be?

Have you tried algocalmin (metamizole). They recently changed the formula too.

 

[Ksa]

Ksa;

If this is true, I will be rejoicing VERY loudly. But as it is, I've tried lots of non-opiod pain relief options and none have worked as well, for me, as the fentanyl patch. I am pretty much into trying ANYTHING non-opiate that even has a chance of helping with pain. Any hints as to what this miracle will be?

The thing is they've found out how pain communicates to the brain and they found a way to block the pain signal completely. This means that you could amputate yourself and not feel anything ^_^

I can't wait!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Swimming
I know that for some provinces, such as Alberta, they have had similar tracking in place and that some of the Atlantic provinces will be coming on board with this as well, but no idea when, as they are just kinda floating around it right now.

I don't know if writing anyone will help, as it seems once you are deemed an addict, you are no longer a person of any value. This is NOT my opinion personally though, and I plan to write some strongly worded items once I have a bit more information about how this is affecting others in a pain situation, not a recreational one. Though both are valid reasons, I guess, and any info will help :D I understand your management problems completely, I'm sure...

If you write the newspapers/media and MLAs and you come across as well-spoken and polite (and of course refer to people using their meds for legit socially-accepted reasons), it does help. It is certainly better than doing nothing. If no one complains and the government and public only see the positive sides (like the claims that it will keep people from getting addicted, etc) then nothing is going to happen and this new drug policy will be considered a success. We do have the power to change things, we just have to use that power - if enough people stand up against something it can affect change. It may be extremely difficult when it comes to this type of issue, but we have to at least try.

I like the idea of seeing a news headline such as "Pain Patients Turning to Heroin Because of New Narcotics Monitoring System". The public is just getting the government line about how this policy will supposedly help people (and punish drug addicts - everyone likes a scapegoat ) and not hearing about any of the potential downsides.

 

[Cloudy]

Honestly laws like this IMO area good thing. Doctor shopping is not a good thing. For one it can cause more laws that prevent pain patients from being able to get any pain medicine period. The mor people abuse the system by getting scripts from multiple docs, abusing ers, etc the less likely docs will be with prescribing pain meds in the first place. If you follow the law and avoid doctor shopping or abusing ers and the like to obtain more meds the less likely more tough laws applying to both patients and docs there will be. If you are a pain patient and abusing your meds I don't have much sympathy for you when you don't have enough meds for you pain treatment. If you avoid abusing meds your tolerance will progress a lot slower and te efficient of the meds will remain high. Not to mention the less classic signs of abuse the more likely a doc will be willing to script pain meds.

There are def laws I don't agree with when it comes to meds but some that prevent fraud, doctor shopping, etc I see as non negative for legitimate patients with health issues

 

[apiffini]

^did you even read the original post?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Honestly laws like this IMO area good thing. Doctor shopping is not a good thing. For one it can cause more laws that prevent pain patients from being able to get any pain medicine period. The mor people abuse the system by getting scripts from multiple docs, abusing ers, etc the less likely docs will be with prescribing pain meds in the first place. If you follow the law and avoid doctor shopping or abusing ers and the like to obtain more meds the less likely more tough laws applying to both patients and docs there will be. If you are a pain patient and abusing your meds I don't have much sympathy for you when you don't have enough meds for you pain treatment. If you avoid abusing meds your tolerance will progress a lot slower and te efficient of the meds will remain high. Not to mention the less classic signs of abuse the more likely a doc will be willing to script pain meds.

There are def laws I don't agree with when it comes to meds but some that prevent fraud, doctor shopping, etc I see as non negative for legitimate patients with health issues

I totally disagree. Making it (supposedly) more difficult for people to legally misuse drugs does nothing to prevent drug use or addiction and does not get at the root issues, and it makes it more difficult for people to get legit medication for pain. People misusing drugs do not "cause" these laws, government chooses to create these laws as a misguided way of attempting to deal with the problem of drug misuse. The fact that someone sees more than one doctor, or goes to more than one pharmacy, or has a script that lasts for less than a month DOES NOT mean they are misusing their meds. It is already extremely difficult in Canada to obtain medical treatment for pain or anxiety, particularly effective medication-based treatment, and this law is only going to make that more difficult. I don't know where you live Cloudy, but I am assuming it is in the US, and here it is very hard to even get a GP let alone a pain specialist, and unless you have terminal cancer it is very difficult to get proper compassionate treatment for pain. It is very common for people to see more than one doctor and doctors and pharmacists already have access to the patient's list of prescriptions. I really don't see how this law could possibly make it at all easier for anyone who is in pain to get treatment/medication or be taken seriously. I can think of an endless number of perfectly legitimate reasons for a person to get one of these "flags". And I can think of plenty of people who do misuse their medications, are addicted to them, or otherwise take them in a way different from prescribed who will not get flagged. And what do they do when someone gets flagged anyway? And if they do decide someone is "potentially" an addict, then what? They simply cut them off from ever being able to legally obtain meds? How is that helping them?

 

[tricomb]

This is not OD material.

I'm going to move this over to North and South American Drug Discussion, but please review the NASADD posting guidelines and make sure you're following the correct format.

OD--> NASADD

 

[Audi0]

Ksa;

If this is true, I will be rejoicing VERY loudly. But as it is, I've tried lots of non-opiod pain relief options and none have worked as well, for me, as the fentanyl patch. I am pretty much into trying ANYTHING non-opiate that even has a chance of helping with pain. Any hints as to what this miracle will be?

id check out this thing called marijuana

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

The thing is they've found out how pain communicates to the brain and they found a way to block the pain signal completely. This means that you could amputate yourself and not feel anything ^_^

I can't wait!

Ksa, this is actually really really significant news. Thanks for the suggestion too! I will absolutely look into this

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

If you write the newspapers/media and MLAs and you come across as well-spoken and polite (and of course refer to people using their meds for legit socially-accepted reasons), it does help. It is certainly better than doing nothing. If no one complains and the government and public only see the positive sides (like the claims that it will keep people from getting addicted, etc) then nothing is going to happen and this new drug policy will be considered a success. We do have the power to change things, we just have to use that power - if enough people stand up against something it can affect change. It may be extremely difficult when it comes to this type of issue, but we have to at least try.

I like the idea of seeing a news headline such as "Pain Patients Turning to Heroin Because of New Narcotics Monitoring System". The public is just getting the government line about how this policy will supposedly help people (and punish drug addicts - everyone likes a scapegoat ) and not hearing about any of the potential downsides.

Swimming,
that is exactly the attitude I plan to go with, You know the honey (and facts!) VS vinegar thing. I am in the process of both writing our paper, MP, as well as looking into giving the Health Minister my situation and hoping she and the creators of this ONMS can explain how my situation currently makes me an addict.
All of the above (see OP) happened to me since this started,less than a month ago, & already I'm told I am an addict and the police have been notified. Great, I say. More people to see it's a cicumstance cause I have no GP, and all of what I said in the OP.
I don't care about being called an addict and things have come up before, but this is now causing me great anxiety ironic as I take lorazepam for THAT and will probably have problems with it soon enough. Whats got me is that because of ONE pharmacy mess up, I feel I am paying a huge price &
others must be too and it seems crazy.

The heroin headline! Wud be so true! lol

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

This is not OD material.

I'm going to move this over to North and South American Drug Discussion, but please review the NASADD posting guidelines and make sure you're following the correct format.

OD--> NASADD

Thanks tricomb, wasn't sure how to do that, or which was most appropriate. I'm the n00biest n00b still but learning!
Much appreciated.

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

Audi0
I would totally try some marjuana, if I wasn't such a chicken at getting it!! Obviously high school fun times were different cause everyone always had it and I never paid once =) I have tried the Cesamet pill though and it did not compare at all to smoking a fatty. And it would be super beneficial as one of the issues I deal with is lack of appetite...lol... some weed and Doritos tacos would clear that right up me thinks...lol

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

Honestly laws like this IMO area good thing. Doctor shopping is not a good thing. For one it can cause more laws that prevent pain patients from being able to get any pain medicine period. The mor people abuse the system by getting scripts from multiple docs, abusing ers, etc the less likely docs will be with prescribing pain meds in the first place. If you follow the law and avoid doctor shopping or abusing ers and the like to obtain more meds the less likely more tough laws applying to both patients and docs there will be. If you are a pain patient and abusing your meds I don't have much sympathy for you when you don't have enough meds for you pain treatment. If you avoid abusing meds your tolerance will progress a lot slower and te efficient of the meds will remain high. Not to mention the less classic signs of abuse the more likely a doc will be willing to script pain meds.

There are def laws I don't agree with when it comes to meds but some that prevent fraud, doctor shopping, etc I see as non negative for legitimate patients with health issues

You seem very unsympathetic, and I hope maybe someday you may understand that I did nothing illegal, I was not shopping for docs, and as Swimming said, there are about a million reasons that you could get flagged, your GP is sick and a new DR is seeing his patients - Double doctoring =Flagged. No explanation is needed, they simply flag you. That is only ONE example, but there is many. I'm not looking for a lecture about why it's good as it will also flag the ones abusing, but ultimately there are several things I forsee happening that are unintended side effects, like an abuser is flagged and caught, great. My town has at least a weeks wait and I hear it is mostly users who need better hookups who attend. Not all of course. What I am saying is that, first the website says Identify so they can get help, get educated, but only alloted a small amount of $$ for this huge problem so how is that helping?

But we will see soon...

 

[EllaMentalWitch]

I'm wondering if there is more experience from Ontarians or any other province that can post their experiences with any Narcotic Monitoring Systems? Either for legitimate pain sufferers OR recreational or regular abusers with prescriptions so please share.

Update for me, I dreamt that I, for the first time in my life, turned to illegal means to obtains my medication. It was a very scary dream. I think a lot of pain patients here are having the exact same dream. A lot. :-(

Also, our town is having an enormous spike in arrests, OD's, and other drug related issues but I am not sure if it is the OxyNEO, or the monitoring, but it's getting bad out there so play safe friends..

 

[SereneGreen]

You have to build an honest relationship with your family doctor, only way to go. Otherwise, might as well stop wasting time and score some H.