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How human rats killed the "RC" market (a rant)

Do me a DB/PC study with 2cx, vs dopaminergic rc (desoxy or peev, not some crap) and see which sample group is more wanting of their lot, the one admined 2c-x or the one given dexoxy/mdpv.

we all ready know the results. people perfer easy euphoria over meaningless confusion.
 
Its quite ovbious that people will buy and sell what they desire because our whole society is built apon this - capitalism. Dopeamine rincing drugs are the capitalists dream, make money, feel good, as long as somones getting ripped off and its not you your fine.

Fuck it all, lets all just take mushrooms 4-floro-omefentanyl. Drugs that enlighten you not delusion you.

sure why not. they all delude you.
 
Seriously, what's with the drug prejudice? This is ridiculous: At the end of the day everything from cocaine to 4-Aco-DMT to fucking datura are the same thing: recreational substances. Really, no matter what the drug (and plant substances like weed and mushrooms ARE drugs, not that there's anything wrong with this) of choice, we all have the same hobby: using substances to temporarily alter, enhance, inhibt and tinker with the little chemicals in our brains. Now, you may have a tool of choice in this pursuit but they are all basically tools for the same damned task
 
they are all basically tools for the same damned task

I wouldn't go that far. Drugs have widely varied purposes depending on how they effect you. It's ridiculous to say they all do the same thing for people.

However, I do agree that no one "function" a drug serves for someone is better than another. It's simply a matter of opinion.
 
Coupla things being that I also pine for the "olden" days.

1. Your government doesn't want you to get high, makes you a bad slave.
2. "the machine" doesn't want you to get high makes you question it.

3. Read the dea report on 2ct7 sum day if your bored... makes you heart sink (it really is a control thing and this isn't some black helicopter conspriracy thing.

I've had pure MDMA and I've had pure Meph the meph isn't half bad actually...

no 4-d like X but if you want 4-d just add nitrous...

the old days are the old days dead and gone

and finally.

There are wars going on in Jungle about the starter PLANT for the Ecstasy...

thats where the MDMA went.

sAFROLE is illegal globally.

The unenlightened human heart if full of lust, greed and death....

A "love" drug isn't really in anyones best interests if you like and profit from wars and rumors of war.

The old Hive was so good about educating the masses on how to construct the steps to heaven...

That the Police-state banned the precursors and even the IDEA...

This whole thing is about control and Forcible Global hallucinations...

be well
 
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I think the thing the OP is bitching about can be found in every aspect of human (capitalist) culture.

1. "The Good Old Days"
You have the original idea/product/scene/whatever. Something new and crazy is introduced into the world, the whole thing feels new and exciting. This is the golden age of the phenomenon. Only a select few people know about it and there no is commercialization/random idiots. Life is good.

2. "Getting Big"
The phenomenon leaves the clutches of the old guard and enters into the mainstream. Things start get commercialized. You have more average joes getting into the phenomenon. People like your parents acknowledge its existence. Everyone who wants to be trendy and hip gets in on it.

3. "Post-peak/The Decline"
The masses get bored with their new toy and they start moving on to the next best thing or the phenomenon gets commoditized/dumbed down. The old guard get disillusioned with the mass commercialization and the legions of retards and also move.

Repeat for infinity...
 
I really wish I was in the RC circle... I'm not sure how to obtain them without getting scammed, but I would love to try some of them myself. I'm not lookin' to "get high" or capitalize on the drug market, but I like to think I'm one of the few who are actually looking for insight and enlightenment (hell, I get epiphanies and crazy thoughts just from weed), though, I don't consider myself a total psychonaut, due to my limited psychedelic drug use. I'm just not educated in the ways of the internet, as some of you obviously are.

:(
 
You're not? You've been on here since April, you must have learned a lot and made some friends. How else to get in "the RC circle"?
 
Do me a DB/PC study with 2cx, vs dopaminergic rc (desoxy or peev, not some crap) and see which sample group is more wanting of their lot, the one admined 2c-x or the one given dexoxy/mdpv.

we all ready know the results. people perfer easy euphoria over meaningless confusion.

I wouldn't call it "meaningless confusion". A majority of those who use the 2c series are looking for something more than just "ohhhh man i feel brilliant" like PV or fucknasty Meph can give you.
 
I tend to find that most psychedelic lovers are just lever-pressing rats of the spiritual kind. They need it to feel any kind of real insight or spiritual progress, press the button feel some more insight. That is also overlooking the vast majority who just want to 'see weird shit and laugh their asses off'.

I've known a lot of people into a lot of psychedelics, and most of them are incredibly spiritually immature - usually because they think they are so much more insightful and 'beautiful' then those who haven't fucked up their brain chemistry to induce visions or to transcend linguistic construction.

Fuck, a first-year anthropology or philosophy course will let you transcend language constructions better than most psychedelics - and the insights will stay with you longer as well.

Real mystics don't need drugs to walk the path. Psychedelics as spiritual progress is an illusion unto itself.

(note: there are the incredibly rare exceptions to this who really can use psychedelics in a truly spiritual manner without getting trapped in a scene-referential feedback loop. 1 in 1,000 based on my own personal experience in the psychedelic scene years ago.)

Stims, psychedelics, opiates, benzos...they're all levers for us rats.
 
Fuck, a first-year anthropology or philosophy course will let you transcend language constructions better than most psychedelics - and the insights will stay with you longer as well.
From the 2006 John Hopkins psilocybin study:
Results Psilocybin produced a range of acute perceptual
changes, subjective experiences, and labile moods including
anxiety. Psilocybin also increased measures of mystical
experience. At 2 months, the volunteers rated the psilocybin
experience as having substantial personal meaning and
spiritual significance and attributed to the experience sustained
positive changes in attitudes and behavior consistent
with changes rated by community observers.
I'm not sure a philosophy course would have the same results. Insight shouldn't be confined to what can be declared in prepositional statements. There is an immense difference between learning about philosophy and psychology by reading and having first hand experiences of their themes. By your 1 in 1000 figure it's likely all these people are delusional, and so are the community observers.
Real mystics don't need drugs to walk the path. Psychedelics as spiritual progress is an illusion unto itself.
It's curious how so many assume that the sober mind set is always the optimal state for accessing personal truths. We have innumerable ego defense mechanisms as well as social conditioning working to preventing us from just that. Interviews with "real mystics" who have taken psychedelic drugs have affirmed their spiritual validity.
Stims, psychedelics, opiates, benzos...they're all levers for us rats.
Except that patterns of psychedelic use tend to deviate strongly from patterns of use of those other drugs (e.g. daily dosing isn't common).
 
Yes, you're right - I was being more than a bit facetious with some of my comments. Fair play.

I'm not trying to undermine the ability of substances such as psilocybin and mescaline to have life changing effects (although I would like to see the effects after 1 year, or 5). However, in the context that they are used in the modern world I think my statements still stand - based purely on my own experiences of such scenes.

I was just responding to the rant with my own rant in kind ;)

My point about the levers wasn't so much about daily dosing or other such addictive behaviour, which is why I posited it as a lever of the 'spiritual kind'. I do tend to find that those who have come to spiritual insight through the use of psychedelics have a great deal of difficulty achieving the same ecstatic or insightful states without them. Many of these people are also just as materialistic and ego-based as anybody else, with more than a fair bit of elitism added into the mix because they have 'seen the light'. That these states of being can also be achieved without such substances is very well documented and undeniable, and maybe we should be promoting more of the latter rather than just the fast-track method that psychedelics can offer.

Psychedelic drugs can be used as a tool, particularly by those already well versed in exploring such things through other means. But there are way too many pitfalls - of a spiritual kind - and these substances are just not treated with the reverance or expertise needed. Most revelations gained on psychedelics are actually very basic language transcendence revelations, which was my point about anthropology and philosophy being just as powerful when understood properly. There are also a lot of revelations and insights that are actually purely based in language, it's just that at the time you don't realise that you aren't transcending anything but are instead just caught up in a temporarily fabricated system of meaning equal to any other.

I think that looking at psychedelics as a way to 'open the doors of perception' is, for the most part, a romanticised ideal. It's not impossible, given highly controlled circumstances, to achieve great insight through their use; but it is far more common for this insight to be self-serving and aggrandising rather than leading to true spiritual progression.

I don't want to get too off-topic (and I do agree with you calling me out on this, because I was generalising way too much). My point was that the original rant was condescending and self-serving and that the psychedelic scenes are often just as ego-based and hedonistic as any other.
 
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InternetMuse said:
Most revelations gained on psychedelics are actually very basic language transcendence revelations, which was my point about anthropology and philosophy being just as powerful when understood properly

Could you give an example of this?
 
I wouldn't call it "meaningless confusion". A majority of those who use the 2c series are looking for something more than just "ohhhh man i feel brilliant" like PV or fucknasty Meph can give you.

Of course they are. I'll remember that next time I encounter tripped out 16 year olds at my favorite after hours that doesn't check ID/give a shit. They are truly getting profound and revelatory thoughts that I should heed, right?
 
^^^^ I think 16 year olds might not get "the point". Just because someone takes psych's doesn't mean they automatically have insight. Mephedrone doesn't give a person an insight on anything other than about 1/10 that of MDMA's empathy. While gaining empathy could do alot of people good, users tend to get caught up in the feeling and start to abuse these RC stim's. To each his own.
 
I don't want to get too into this to be honest, because it's not the topic of the thread...

Putting it simply though, a lot of the power of psychedelics comes from the ability to transcend linguistic systems of meaning. To realise that the object is not the linguistic construct, 'the map is not the territory'.

The most typical example is one usually experienced when out in nature, when the user feels connected to everything and implicitly part of the bigger ecosystem that is all around them. Language has created the barrier which makes us feel separate from nature - even my use of the word itself here 'when out in nature' shows how we consider it to be separate from what we normally are. When one transcends that linguistic construct, the barrier comes down and our perception of the world around us is no longer dictated by it.

Anthropology teaches you such concepts because you are studying other cultural systems of meaning that are very different to your own. Philosophy achieves this by studying language itself and how meaning is created.

But I don't want to digress too much. I'll just end by saying that psychedelics often give a very real sense of something profound, but without any true understanding or insight into what that profound experience actually is. This, more often than not, leads one to become addicted to experiencing that feeling of profound significance but without any other means to access it than to take more psychedelics.

Am I making sense here? lol

Anyway, I've digressed enough.
 
Yes, you're right - I was being more than a bit facetious with some of my comments. Fair play.

I'm not trying to undermine the ability of substances such as psilocybin and mescaline to have life changing effects (although I would like to see the effects after 1 year, or 5). However, in the context that they are used in the modern world I think my statements still stand - based purely on my own experiences of such scenes.

I was just responding to the rant with my own rant in kind ;)

My point about the levers wasn't so much about daily dosing or other such addictive behaviour, which is why I posited it as a lever of the 'spiritual kind'. I do tend to find that those who have come to spiritual insight through the use of psychedelics have a great deal of difficulty achieving the same ecstatic or insightful states without them. Many of these people are also just as materialistic and ego-based as anybody else, with more than a fair bit of elitism added into the mix because they have 'seen the light'. That these states of being can also be achieved without such substances is very well documented and undeniable, and maybe we should be promoting more of the latter rather than just the fast-track method that psychedelics can offer.

Psychedelic drugs can be used as a tool, particularly by those already well versed in exploring such things through other means. But there are way too many pitfalls - of a spiritual kind - and these substances are just not treated with the reverance or expertise needed. Most revelations gained on psychedelics are actually very basic language transcendence revelations, which was my point about anthropology and philosophy being just as powerful when understood properly. There are also a lot of revelations and insights that are actually purely based in language, it's just that at the time you don't realise that you aren't transcending anything but are instead just caught up in a temporarily fabricated system of meaning equal to any other.

I think that looking at psychedelics as a way to 'open the doors of perception' is, for the most part, a romanticised ideal. It's not impossible, given highly controlled circumstances, to achieve great insight through their use; but it is far more common for this insight to be self-serving and aggrandising rather than leading to true spiritual progression.

I don't want to get too off-topic (and I do agree with you calling me out on this, because I was generalising way too much). My point was that the original rant was condescending and self-serving and that the psychedelic scenes are often just as ego-based and hedonistic as any other.
I agree that the people that tend to benefit most from the use of psychedelics tend to be already happy, well-adjusted, physically and intellectually healthy individuals. The average age of the participants in the psilocybin study was around 50, which is telling. It's ironic how people think they "grow out of" psychedelics when indications are it takes until you're old to really grow into them.

I imagine the most valuable changes that I've undergone as a result of my psychedelics use are unconscious and have to do with things like emotional regulation. It's not so much an insight-based change as it is a slow cultivation of a particular mode of being. All else being equal, I think that psychedelically amplified experiences have a greater impact than qualitatively similar sober ecstatic states by sheer virtue of their power, as a more intense stimulus tends to have further-ranging conditional effects.

Per your request: Psilocybin and Mystical Experience: 14-month follow-up
 
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Thanks for the link. I do actually agree with you in many ways, but just think that the use of psychedelics has more of a hedonistic quality to it than many proponents will admit.

I also think that although the initial impact might be greater on psychedelics it often doesn't have as much lasting impact because the change was forced by a temporary chemical imbalance rather than a prolonged process of emergent revelation. To achieve such a state whilst 'sober' requires the change to have already taken place rather than a temporary glimpse of that change being shown to you. The unconscious transformation has already occurred, you don't have to catch up to the powerful experience. Most of us won't ever catch up to the experience in this way, hence chasing it by taking more psychedelics.

But I'll stop now ;) Nice discussion though :)
 
Anthropology teaches you such concepts because you are studying other cultural systems of meaning that are very different to your own. Philosophy achieves this by studying language itself and how meaning is created.
I know you don't want to digress, but this is a titular rant thread--by nature it is wandering.

I certainly don't discount the value of scholarly work, hell, considering how long I've been in school (got masters, now thinking doctorate in something totally different) I apparently can't get enough. But do scholarly lessons really have that deep of an impact for most of us? Our history is a testament to the fact that we don't learn from it. Great philosophers still have juvenile spats with their neighbors. Ethics professors endorse genocide. As unreliable as they are, we defer first to our personal experiences and immediate social milieu. Psychedelics are an avenue into the direct experiential learning that for better or worse is the kind that sticks.
 
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