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how do you feel about armed forces using MDMA for PTSD?

I'm all for it under proper supervision. It is absolutely deplorable how neglected veterans care (especially mental health) is in the US.
 
Why not? If it's benefitting them then there's no reason to be against it.
 
I'll play devils advocate here...


MDMA is bad m'kay... Drugs are bad m'kay.... M'kay


(South park reference)
 
What if it doesn't benefit them?
Am I the only one that finds MDMA revelations to be somewhat shallow and ephemeral?
Relationship counselling makes more sense to me for MDMA therapy.
While I have suffered PTSD, it is not from going to war - but I'm yet to be convinced it is the best drug available.
That's not to say I am against it.
But MDMA? I don't know. It's not the only (or even the best, arguably) empathogen known to humanity.
 
But MDMA? I don't know. It's not the only (or even the best, arguably) empathogen known to humanity
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What's a better one? No other drug has the profile of MDMA. Methylone is the only thing that nearly resembles it.
 
I'm fully for it. My father fought in two wars. After coming back from the second, he was completely unrecognizable. However, he is honored to have had the chance to serve, and would do it again if he'd pass the psych evaluation. Despite being back since 2004, he has yet to receive disability or effective treatment. The nation owes it to him to research any possible treatment option.
 
JWills20 said:
What's a better one? No other drug has the profile of MDMA. Methylone is the only thing that nearly resembles it.
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Mescaline? 2c-x?
Many psychedelics have entheogenic properties. Why must the agent be MDMA? Is this some kind of orthodoxy I'm not aware of? If we're going to investigate such things, why not keep an open mind?
 
spacejunk said:
Mescaline? 2c-x?
Many psychedelics have entheogenic properties. Why must the agent be MDMA? Is this some kind of orthodoxy I'm not aware of? If we're going to investigate such things, why not keep an open mind?
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Nope, there's no reason. You just need to find a drug which works for the cause. MDMA has shown that. The other's haven't been tested. Maybe as things go on, they'll find other psychoactive drugs which work with psychotherapy too.

If you want to begin at square one testing 2cb, attempting to get hold of it legally, trying to get your study approved and funded, and you're willing to go through all the extra hardship of phase 1 through to 3 (which has taken MDMA about 40 years), then yeah go ahead and go for 2cb. With unaccepted drugs, studying them is a ridiculously hard feat with pressures from just about every angle trying to stop what you're doing. Getting 2bc or mescaline through to human trials is likely to take decades just like MDMA. That's if it even works.

As far as I see it, you're just saying 'why not use others?' which is fair enough if they work. But A) they might not work. B) it'll take you years to actually get anywhere near to human studies and consideration for use within therapy. C) You'll have pressures against you for a long time. D) You won't get funding easily, if at all. E) People will judge you for it.

So it's not overly surprising that people are only testing MDMA since the work of Rick Doblin et al have pushed it through to where it is today. He still can't see it being legally available for PTSD until 2024, and he started back in 60s/70s IIRC.
 
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ParappaTheRapper said:
i mean, MDMA as a stimulant is probably not what MAPS is looking for. Im just guessing that "floored" effects would be better suited
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Stimulants are used in therapy all the time (for instance ADHD). What they want is something which allows people to engage severely painful memories and work through them, all while in a state of true self acceptance.
 
JWills20 said:
Nope, there's no reason. You just need to find a drug which works for the cause. MDMA has shown that. The other's haven't been tested. Maybe as things go on, they'll find other psychoactive drugs which work with psychotherapy too.

If you want to begin at square one testing 2cb, attempting to get hold of it legally, trying to get your study approved and funded, and you're willing to go through all the extra hardship of phase 1 through to 3 (which has taken MDMA about 40 years), then yeah go ahead and go for 2cb. With unaccepted drugs, studying them is a ridiculously hard feat with pressures from just about every angle trying to stop what you're doing. Getting 2bc or mescaline through to human trials is likely to take decades just like MDMA. That's if it even works.

As far as I see it, you're just saying 'why not use others?' which is fair enough if they work. But A) they might not work. B) it'll take you years to actually get anywhere near to human studies and consideration for use within therapy. C) You'll have pressures against you for a long time. D) You won't get funding easily, if at all. E) People will judge you for it.

So it's not overly surprising that people are only testing MDMA since the work of Rick Doblin et al have pushed it through to where it is today. He still can't see it being legally available for PTSD until 2014, and he started back in 60s/70s IIRC.
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That's true, and I see your point, but am somewhat playing devil's advocate for the "You'd have to be an ignorant sadistic fuck to be against it" line of argument.
Which I found interesting, as I've met few soldiers that are anything but sadistic fucks.
 
Which I found interesting, as I've met few soldiers that are anything but sadistic fucks.
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I don't think the post regarding sadism was directed at soldiers, but rather people who are against the use of it through pure ignorance.
 
Is he not saying the soldiers he has met seem to be sadistic fucks, thereby pointing out the irony?

I am 100% for it. MDMA saved me from some terrible PTSD. It has a wonderful way of lowering inhibitions allowing you to think, then talk about the trauma. It gives you a glimpse of how a caring therapist would respond to the material brought up. It removes so much guilt and anguish and lets you confront the issue much more rationally. You can then "put it (the issue) to bed" and begin moving on with your life.
 
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Bass Melody said:
Is he not saying the soldiers he has met seem to be sadistic fucks, thereby pointing out the irony?
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Me? How do you possibly get that from what I said? I never even addressed the soldiers in my post; the only group I directed my comment towards were those individuals AGAINST the use of MDMA (or any other psychotropic for that matter) to assist with working through PTSD in a controlled environment. THOSE people, in my opinion, are the sadistic fucks.

trozzle said:
Pro. You'd have to be an ignorant sadistic fuck to be against it.
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No. Pardon me if it wasn't clear. I was saying that about spacejunk.

I find there is a fair bit of confusion in the general reading comprehension when people (generally!) are making posts. I seem to see it over and over big really hesitate whether I should help with clarifying. Only did this time as I needed to re-read his post again myself to grasp what he was saying. Did not mean to offend or overstep if I misunderstood myself.
 
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