Harm Reduction How bad an idea is it to take these dosages of Phenibut 3 days in a row??

[Mycophile]

Ok, so I've become VERY cautious about not overdoing Phenibut due to reading of abuse reports.

HOWEVER, I had one dosage left today and thought I'd finish it off because I am NOT buying more for a long time because I have decided on a several month's period of sobriety for several reasons.

NOW...Keep in mind we are all different and respond to drugs differently so look at how Phenibut has effected ME personally in these dosages:

NORMALLY my standard is to take 2--4,000mg doses Saturday and Sunday, equaling 8,000mgs in a week, and then COMPLETELY abstain from Monday--Friday.

These doses might effect SOME people badly but they don't for me and in MONTHS of doing this I only ONCE experienced some rebound anxiety the day after dosing two days in a row when I slept badly and was in a stressful situation the next day and had to double my Klonopin dosage to make it go away.

Other than that...NOTHING ever...no bad effects in OVER A YEAR of this dosing schedule.


I told myself I'd NEVER exceed it BUT one part of me knew I only had one dose left and wanted to just knock it out today so I'd be out of it completely and then not order more.


So after dosing 4,000mgs Saturday and 4,000mgs Sunday (yesterday) I just doses 2,300mgs.

Now after that I only have another 1,350mgs which I MIGHT finish today, and knowing me at this point I probably will UNLESS a bunch of you guys say this is a HORRIBLE idea.

So that would mean 3,650mgs today....a total of 11,650mgs in a 3 day period and then I'll be COMPLETELY out and won't order more for a long time, and my plan is to NEVER do this much in 3 days again even IF I end up feeling ok.


ALSO...IF I end up feeling bad tomorrow I have a SHITLOAD of Klonopin so wouldn't that help with any rebound anxiety or any possible withdrawal symptoms???

To be REALISTIC...my guess is I'll probably experience SOME rebound anxiety tomorrow and possibly a day or two after that which might require some more Klonopin than usual and then it would all subside.

I don't think I will probably experience worse than that.

But I would like opinions regarding what MY body is used to...NOT YOURS.

You might not feel right taking 8,000mgs over the course of 2 days, but keep in mind that I DO so consider what an extra 3,650mgs the 3rd day in a row might do TO ME if 8,000mgs in 2 days has always been just fine over the course of over one year.

Thanks.

 

[Mycophile]

Well, thanks for NOT responding guys lol.

I've already taken the majority of the remaining Phenibut, minus 400mgs, so hopefully I'll be fine which I think I probably will be.

If I've been fine every time I've ever taken 4,000mgs 2 days in a row I'm not sure that a 3rd day with 3,650mgs before being completely out will really do anything much worse than maybe a little rebound anxiety.

 

[pbuilder]

The reason you don't get rebound anxiety when you dose 8000mg over two days is because you also use Klonopin which would take away the rebound anxiety. But using phenibut a few times a week alongside regular Klonopin is going to leave you with a damaged as fuck gaba system down the line in years to come where you'll be paying the consequences and suffering with paws and cognitive deficits.

 

[Mycophile]

The reason you don't get rebound anxiety when you dose 8000mg over two days is because you also use Klonopin which would take away the rebound anxiety. But using phenibut a few times a week alongside regular Klonopin is going to leave you with a damaged as fuck gaba system down the line in years to come where you'll be paying the consequences and suffering with paws and cognitive deficits.

You REALLY think doing Phenibut 2 days a week on the weekends with regular LOW dose Klonopin as prescribed will leave me with a damaged GABA system and cognitive defects??

I kind of have a hard time believing that.

I mean I have only used Phenibut 1-2 times a week MAX on and off for a year, and most weeks over the last year I HAVEN'T used it.

I don't believe the Klonopin alone will lead to cognitive defects because it hasn't been proven that EVERYONE suffers from them and I've used it for 12 years now with zero cognitive defects.

I know you mean will, but you are kind of scaring me and honestly I don't think you can say with definitive proof that I WILL suffer those negative effects you mention.

What are PAWS anyway??

I mean the thing is I NEED my Klonopin, no way around it, I need it to function.

I mean you don't think the GABA system can heal??

 

[Keif' Richards]

OP, I mean no disrespect, but these kind of questions are unanswerable. How bad your withdrawal will be, how long it takes for dependence to take hold, etc. It's just not something we can give realy help with. We're aware that Gabapentinoids, including Pregabalin (Lyrica), Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Phenibut all produce tolerance at a rate sginificantly faster than many other drugs.

We also know that accompanying this very fast onset of tolerance, the withdrawal syndrome can be very severe both mentally and physically, some even describing it as a cross between Benzodiazepine and Opioid withdrawal. Everyone should be aware of the risks and benefits associated with Gabapentinoid use. You make a large trade for a small benefit, although they're pretty effective and useful drugs while they remain effective.

 

[dus_aster]

OP- in my experience with phenibut, it's difficult to restrict dosing until you've experienced w/ds and realize how nasty they are. With the dosing regimen you are on now, you'll likely get there eventually (it becomes very easy to slip up, this is truly an insidious substance), if not right away.
For the sake of HR (as someone who is v careful but has been very, very dependent on it a number of times), I would recommend only dosing once weekly in the four gram range.
Other posters have lots of good advice, just chiming in to state that you will probably notice w/ds eventually at the rate you're going. Not due to any flaw or lack of control on your part, but because phenibut is *very* addictive (I found it substantially more so than benzodiazepines; obviously ymmv, but this is widely regarded as a nasty one)

Nobody can tell you when you'll experience w/ds, but using at the rate you are, you're risking developing them (by virtue of it becoming increasingly difficult to maintain a strict dosing regimen)
By careful! Once one has experienced them it becomes easier to gauge how often is too often, and, with benzos on hand, it isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world (just remember to strive to learn from any neg experiences you have with it; it's not a mistake if you learn valuable info about your psychology and physiology, yes? ), but if you can avoid them entirely, all the better.

 

[dus_aster]

PAWS is post acute withdrawal syndrome; long lasting effects such as heightened anxiety and depression (as well as some other more physiological symptoms some googling with shed light on) that persist long after acute w/d.
If you rely on your benzo for therapy, I personally would avoid concurrent GABAergic drugs, as all they are gonna do is gradually limit the effectiveness of the medication you actually need. Not all at once! Slowly, when you aren't as likely to notice, until you feel like you need to add phenibut to the klonopin for it to work right.
The GABA network definitely repairs itself over time, but repair takes substantially longer when you regularly administer another GABAergic (like klonopin), and like... why risk it?
If you're anything like me, you'll continue using phenibit despite advice to the contrary, and eventually notice ill effect; again, just try and learn from the experience, and remember that phenibut will ultimately exacerbate your anxiety.

Tl;dr phenibut is going to eventually limit your benzo's efficacy, and nobody can realistically tell you when it will start happening or how quickly it will happen.
It *will* happen, though, so bear that in mind and watch for it if you continue using phenibut

Source: annecdotal evidence w/ phenibut and multiple addictions, exp with ~60 drugs, currently studying this stuff in post secondary school

 

[Solipsis]

Phenibut is a gabapentinoid, a calcium channel blocker like pregabaline etc, but at doses that high the GABAb agonism is probably quite significant even if it isn't at more standard doses of phenibut (which is semi up for debate). Benzos act on GABAa though.

However agonists acting on certain GABAa subtypes can cause GABAb receptors to internalize because they cross-couple - meaning that there is interaction between these GABAa and GABAb systems relevant for tolerance and dependency mechanisms.

So there may be negative influence from taking such high doses of phenibut as well as use of benzos that is special and not simply the inherent phenibut tolerance you built by itself.
At first you'd just expect tolerance as a calcium channel blocker similar to pregabalin tolerance. Can feel shitty but is manageable. But I guess you are put at risk of more unusual effects that it seems were previously called getting your GABA system fucked up.

I know it's not what you wanna hear, but GABAergics and that includes phenibut once you start reaching those high doses, are really not suited for chronic use and treatment of anxiety - SO MANY people are much worse off sooner or later. I personally found 2 years of pregabaline more doable. The tolerance developed means loss of magic but not of therapeutic potential.
Not sure if it can be recommended generally, some people get side-effects or long-term adverse effects... unfortunately not many directly acting anxiolytics can really be recommended aside from some semi subtle ones.

 

[Mycophile]

PAWS is post acute withdrawal syndrome; long lasting effects such as heightened anxiety and depression (as well as some other more physiological symptoms some googling with shed light on) that persist long after acute w/d.
If you rely on your benzo for therapy, I personally would avoid concurrent GABAergic drugs, as all they are gonna do is gradually limit the effectiveness of the medication you actually need. Not all at once! Slowly, when you aren't as likely to notice, until you feel like you need to add phenibut to the klonopin for it to work right.
The GABA network definitely repairs itself over time, but repair takes substantially longer when you regularly administer another GABAergic (like klonopin), and like... why risk it?
If you're anything like me, you'll continue using phenibit despite advice to the contrary, and eventually notice ill effect; again, just try and learn from the experience, and remember that phenibut will ultimately exacerbate your anxiety.

Tl;dr phenibut is going to eventually limit your benzo's efficacy, and nobody can realistically tell you when it will start happening or how quickly it will happen.
It *will* happen, though, so bear that in mind and watch for it if you continue using phenibut

Source: annecdotal evidence w/ phenibut and multiple addictions, exp with ~60 drugs, currently studying this stuff in post secondary school

Well I had zero negative side effects or anxiety today.

As far as saying "i will lose control of my dosing" you are incorrect there.

I stuck to 1-2 days a week, on and off, for over a year, and was afraid to go higher so never did, until this one time because I knew I'd run out afterwards and just wanted to get rid of what I had so I could simply be done with it and move on to my period of sobriety.

Even now with it having been ok, I won't do it again, and won't be buying Phenibut again for quite a while.

There are certain substances I am drawn to compulsively use, but Phenibut is really not one of them and i find it quite easy to control myself with it.

I won't be one of those people you hear about who continues dosing higher until they run into problems.

I really am not even trying to convince you, I already know it to be the case because of both my fear of running into problems with this compound because I have heard of how nasty the WDs are and my not having an extreme love of it like I have for other substances like Kratom.

HOWEVER, your comments that Phenibut use may eventually lessen the effectiveness of my Klonopin are something i need to hear and even more reason for me not to use it for a while.

However, did you mean that could happen if you I COMBINE the two drugs??

What if I skip my Klonopin on the days I take Phenibut?

Would that lessen the chances of one effecting the other??

I'm sure I will still SOMETIMES in the future use Phenibut, but not for a while OR as much as I was before so that that does not happen.

 

[Mycophile]

Phenibut is a gabapentinoid, a calcium channel blocker like pregabaline etc, but at doses that high the GABAb agonism is probably quite significant even if it isn't at more standard doses of phenibut (which is semi up for debate). Benzos act on GABAa though.

However agonists acting on certain GABAa subtypes can cause GABAb receptors to internalize because they cross-couple - meaning that there is interaction between these GABAa and GABAb systems relevant for tolerance and dependency mechanisms.

So there may be negative influence from taking such high doses of phenibut as well as use of benzos that is special and not simply the inherent phenibut tolerance you built by itself.
At first you'd just expect tolerance as a calcium channel blocker similar to pregabalin tolerance. Can feel shitty but is manageable. But I guess you are put at risk of more unusual effects that it seems were previously called getting your GABA system fucked up.

I know it's not what you wanna hear, but GABAergics and that includes phenibut once you start reaching those high doses, are really not suited for chronic use and treatment of anxiety - SO MANY people are much worse off sooner or later. I personally found 2 years of pregabaline more doable. The tolerance developed means loss of magic but not of therapeutic potential.
Not sure if it can be recommended generally, some people get side-effects or long-term adverse effects... unfortunately not many directly acting anxiolytics can really be recommended aside from some semi subtle ones.

I already know Phenibut is not best used for anxiety which is why I dont' use it for that reason, it's only been recreational for me.

KLONOPIN on the other hands is what I need for anxiety, and I simply can't stop taking it, so when people tell me I simply WILL develop cognitive problems if I keep taking it 1) I feel that they can't possibly know for sure that that is true 2) I feel like they are just unnecessarily scaring me because I can't stop taking it in the first place or my social anxiety will be crippling.

So now I won't be buying Phenibut for at least a few months because I am going to have a period of sobriety for reasons I don't need to get into (NOT including Klonopin which I DON'T use recreationally but need medicinally).

Now do you REALLy believe, as Pinpoint suggested, that it is INEVITABLE that even if I DON'T use Phenibut very frequently, that simply because of my long term LOW DOSE MEDICINAL use of Klonopin, that I simply WILL have serious cognitive deficits and PAWS down the road????

People say this like it's FACT...but I have already been using Klonopin more days than not for 12 years and had ZERO negative cognitive effects.

Whether or not people say you shouldn't use benzos long term or not, I am NOT willing to quit my Klonopin in order to go back to a life of crippling anxiety.

The only way I'd even REMOTELY consider TRYING would be if I was 100% CONVINCED I'd become a drooling idiot with no short term memory if I didn't stop and I'm really not at all convinced of that.

I can choose not to take Phenibut ever again IF I want to (I do plan on using it time to time for fun, especially since at these doses I've seen no negative side effects BUT...once again, I use it pretty sporadically and am going to take a few months off from using it)....but I SIMPLY CANNOT stop using Klonopin, whether I want to or not.

Keep in mind, I rarely take more than 1.5mgs of Klonopin in a day...except for the very rare day I may take up 2.0mgs but then there are days I will dose as low as 0.5mgs.

I am not one of these guys who doses 3,4 or 6 mgs of Klonopin.