Heroin Hours to peak after IV?

[Dinkq]

After years of more and more consistent shooting, now daily for months, it now often takes an hour or more to peak. Often there would be seemingly no effect at all after shooting but an hour or two later I would nod strongly or even pass out. This seems very dangerous and I often worry that I'll OD. It happens mostly towards the end of the day with 6-10 doses in the day.The gear is South-East Asian white, it is not a miss since those are easy to note - very itchy, red etc., clearly some crap cut... It could cause half my arm length go red and swollen, quite spooky...Any ideas why would this slowness would happen and how come I have not seen anyone else mention this?

 

[opiatekrzy]

Immediately

 

[Agoraphobiaphile]

This is actually quite common.

Most ODs are not immediate, rather a gradual depression of respiratory function that can result in an OD hours from use.

This is why you should never leave a nodding friend alone thinking they just went to sleep.. Personally I lost a friend earlier this year after taking her home and laying her on her bed myself...

It's not a matter of reaching peak blood concentration or anything. CNS effects are not directly proportional to concentration.

 

[Dinkq]

Immediately

What? It works Immediately? Sometimes, usually in the morning for me too! Immediately stop and seek medical attention? Na-aah, not with that buddy! Not helpful man!

 

[Dinkq]

This is actually quite common.Most ODs are not immediate, rather a gradual depression of respiratory function that can result in an OD hours from use.This is why you should never leave a nodding friend alone thinking they just went to sleep.. Personally I lost a friend earlier this year after taking her home and laying her on her bed myself... It's not a matter of reaching peak blood concentration or anything. CNS effects are not directly proportional to concentration.

I've read that death up to 3 hours after dosing is common. But everyone just bangs on how banging it is instant etc., well seems not at all after one's addicted.. that really sucks. And I'm sorry for your loss, I've had ppl die next to me but I didn't know them. I cannot imagine how that would feel and often while waiting for it to hit think about my S.O. having to deal with it... The slowness really sucks and I've not seen much discussion on that (only about the 3h to OD). Thanks for confirming. Why would that happen, neurologically? Downregulation?

 

[Treefa]

Well that's interesting...but if that's real heroin you're doing, I wouldn't be surprised.

I think it has something to do with the Morphine. I'm an oral user who has tried most all opioids/opiates orally.
The difference I notice most obviously between oral Morphine, and literally any other phenantherene opioid pain killer seems almost unique to Morphine;
1.st observation) Morphine has a very slow come up, even with instant release, hot tea.etcccc...takes 3-5X as long as a hydrocodone or Hydromorphone come up, orally.
2.nd) It lasts ALOT longer than any pain killer I've tried. The 2016 PDR lists MSIR has having a half life of 4-6 hours, but for me, one dose of Morphine lasts me AT LEAST 8 hours of strong pain-relief.

Observation Number 2 has almost made me suspect this incredibly long duration has something to do with first-pass metabolism, or conversion to other active metabolite. IDK why but it lasts forever, which I really like...with hydros it's 4-5 hours TOPS with a really large dose.
Or I could just have a funny liver, or maybe I just react a little differently to Morphine than some.

In any case, yes Morphine definitely has legs. Can last 8 +hours, probably a little less for I.v.

And to all the other people that said "immediately" well the rush will certainly manifest pretty quick, but you SHOULD be quite stoned on morphine for the next 4-7 hours. If you overdose immediately you really fucked up, BAD somehow.

But yeah it's entirely possible to overdose hours after, especially if you take any other drugs, drink, have sleep apnea etc....all those things make opiates more dangerous...aside from the fact it's street dope, but the stuff you described sounds pretty clean so I won't complain.

Good luck, just don't do too much within 8 hours of bedtime, or its a waste cuz you won't be productive, right?!

 

[Agoraphobiaphile]

^ well yea diacetylmorphine is converted to morphine(in a matter of minutes)

Which is why when u fail your drug screens they always say morphine was in your piss I always found that preferable to detection of straight heroin.

So to clarify, the rush and quote peak of the high IS immediate.. Cns effects can build over the course of the high.

 

[steewith2ees]

^ Laboratory chromatographic screens can tell if heroin was used as a pose to morphine due to other metabolites, mainly the presence of 6-Monoacetylmorphine (6-MAM) (or 6-acetylmorphine (6-AM)).

 

[Kittycat5]

I think you have just built tolerance and have become use to that immediate rush. As stated, IVing produces peak plasma levels instantaneously, and the conversion of heroin to morphine would be a matter of seconds to minutes. But the metabolites can take some time to form, distribute and penetrate the CNS (and at various speeds and amounts) so it most likely you need this cocktail of metabolites circulating until you start nodding, when any one of the parent drug or its offspring (metabolites) alone, wouldnt do much.

 

[Dinkq]

From HR point of view, if this indeed is so common, it is not talked enough. Not nearly enough. IMO. Everyone just keeps going on and on about instant rush... Even here at BL the only information is the ">50% of ODs happen hours after" in specific few posts.


I could just keep on hitting it, trying to obtain nod, and a few hours later it could be an OD. How much is the difference between OD and good dose? I mean, is there a very fine line between "just good enough" and "too much"? Or, is a significantly higher dose needed for death to occur compared to say passing out? Any researches about this?


In one month about 10 g is consumed now, after trying to limit intake. Usual dose about a small matchstick head size or max two, but I guess those numbers are more or less pointless without knowing the purity. It is not stepped on a million times while moving halfway around the world - support your local producers

 

[Kittycat5]

Those are some excellent questions. I do not think its as common as you suspect and more ODs would occur within a few mins of shooting but would really have to check the literature.

Morphine, and heroin by proxy are not considered narrow therapeutic window drugs where the toxic and therapeutic levels are close, but surely utmost caution needs to be taken. Idk, let me dig around and get back to you.

 

[fermonos]

What the fuck is nodding even?

Is it like, actually falling asleep/passing out? If so why the hell does everyone talk about loving it. Why the fuck would you like passing out?

Personally when I'm getting high on opiates I just love how content it makes me feel with the world and the warm fuzzy blanket what covers my body.

I couldn't think of a worse thing than passing out high on drugs, you'll miss how good you can feel while being awake...

 

[Agoraphobiaphile]

From HR point of view, if this indeed is so common, it is not talked enough. Not nearly enough. IMO. Everyone just keeps going on and on about instant rush... Even here at BL the only information is the ">50% of ODs happen hours after" in specific few posts.


I could just keep on hitting it, trying to obtain nod, and a few hours later it could be an OD. How much is the difference between OD and good dose? I mean, is there a very fine line between "just good enough" and "too much"? Or, is a significantly higher dose needed for death to occur compared to say passing out? Any researches about this?


In one month about 10 g is consumed now, after trying to limit intake. Usual dose about a small matchstick head size or max two, but I guess those numbers are more or less pointless without knowing the purity. It is not stepped on a million times while moving halfway around the world - support your local producers

IME that is the unknown and the goal when doing dope.. Straddling the thin line between bliss and death. I know not everyone is about that..

But also idk why ppl like to nod. I don't nod.. Have maybe three times in my life. Think I May have a natural tolerance.. Or resistance.. To opiates.

I see my friends nod all the time off of nothing and they use everyday.. I always ask why they would want to sleep off the high and I never get a good response. It's annoying constantly checking if your friends are alive.

 

[tacodude]

I'll just add my 2c that I've only had what I'd assume is the pleasurable opiate rush with Dilaudid much different from the pins and needles rush of morphine or the rush of relief going from withdrawals to feeling better. Nodding never seems dependant on dose, but rather how exhausted my mind and body is where usually by the end of the day especially when staying up too late I find myself nodding literally experiencing moments where memories or thoughts of life to seem so real until I reach up to grab a bar or towards someone's hand only to realize I'm on my bed pulling my head out of my lap as I'm reaching up towards nothing. An interesting experience to say the least, but not something that should be the desires of one's experience when using opiates.

To put it simply you may be able to shoot a gram of dope in the morning after waking and still be sick yet shoot a tenth of that same dope before bed and find yourself nodding into an OD. Opiates are a mysterious unpredictable mistress.

 

[morphine-dreams]

My rule with opioids is to take it fairly slow, see how it feels, and take it from there. I have a (more than likely) fentanyl tolerance too. Doing it this way, it can take hours to OD. Though to be fair, I've always insufflated, smoked, or taken my opioids orally/subligually. When a friend sniffed H with me (he was on other downers too), it took him a good hour or two to experience a mild OD. Somehow, I've never OD'd.

I also think you should be aware of any cuts if possible, while opioids generally don't have the lowesrt therapeutic margin, it's not the highest either, as Kitty said, it's unusual to OD without reaching the nodding stage. I personally get the opposite (nod way before OD signs) but again, I'm high tolerant. I've used an unknown RC opioid (all signs point to a fent analogue), poppy tea, heroin, opium-basically all the unpredictable ones. I pay close attention to my pupils and breathing, i.e. making sure I can still cough.

Even when I've had IV morphine at the hospital a few times, it was an initial rush and then boom- insta-nod. There are less sedating opioids, and if you don't enjoy the resulting high, perhaps they're just not for you on a regular basis. Kratom is worth a shot too. Not IV'd obviously, and no real rush, but an energetic and possibly even euphoric high.

Many have tried mixing kratom with stronger opioids. I haven't, but maybe someone else can elaborate on that. Or I could do it myself at some point and report back, *for science*.

The swelling does sound a bit suspect though which is why I mentioned a possibility cut, though it could possibly be a histamine reaction as well (though I'd think that'd be more systemic). Could also simply have to do with technique. That one's hard to answer as a non-IV user. Take a Benadryl and see if it helps.

Final HR related note-nodding =/= passing the fuck out. Unless you were tired to begin with, that's a bit much if safety is your goal. I like to get to the point where I can't really keep my eyes open at times/most of the time lol, but can still converse and "be there". Sometimes I'll let go and nod for minutes at a time, but I've never knocked myself out like that entirely. Even as an IV user, it's in your best interest to take small shots and see how it goes, ESPECIALLY with new batches. That's how I smoke, which is not too far off from shooting in terms of time of onset and BA (I believe it's around 90+? Lemme double check). When I sniff or smoke, I always start out with tiny bumps/hits and wait. I give it at least an hour before looking for a nod too, and I get one going eventually more often than not.

And I also TOTALLY AGREE that nodding is more dependent on exhaustion levels anyway. The other night I nodded off of freakin' kratom (I was on benzos too) and it felt like a low-ish dose of smack. Not the euphoria, but the nod. I was just extremely tired to begin with. I think many of us opioid users forget that you kind of can nod even without drugs when sufficiently tired. It's like with drinking and/or benzos, they don't really sedate me unless I took too much of was tired already.

edit: this is kind of all over the place.

TL;DR- I don't shoot but I do smoke (hits almost as instantly as IV) and yes, it can definitely take an hour or so to feel the peak and nod. That's why you go slow.

 

[Dinkq]

I wrote a reply but it just disappeared after trying to edit it so I'll keep it short.


So people say nods might not happen. Ok. If that's true then how to know you've had "enough". Say you keep shooting 0.05 g doses or whatever every 2 hours. But those doses result in no rush and no nodding. Am I chasing death and it doesn't get better than this feeling? Yesterday I was nodding hard and actually almost fell asleep so it is possible sometimes. After one's crossed the limit, die without warning?

Is there a large difference between "good" and "too much"? For example if you consume 1 g per day, then 3x or whatever would result in death? Or 5x? There should be at least passing out before total respiratory depression if dosing relatively small doses every few hours? Small doses often more safe than few massive ones?