Hope, Help & Heroin Addiction

[Swimmingdancer]

I used to be a moderator here. I don't recall the details, but I probably left in some vague slowly-ghosting way because I got overwhelmed. I suppose I wanted to escape the person I had become, who seemed endlessly sick and alone in a tower, obsessively spending all my time on Bluelight while the actual blue light from my computer screen filled my eyes, feeling like I needed to help everyone yet could barely help myself. I am sorry if I was unclear and irresponsible in the way I left.I'm sorry if any of you worried about me.

I had been addicted to IV heroin for a decade and was on methadone for a decade, (overlapping with the heroin for a big chunk of that time). I overshared every step of my lengthy struggle to get off methadone and got support from the community here on Bluelight. I have been clean from all opioids for more than 3 years now. I can't fathom ever going back. I have seen people do heroin right in front of me and been offered it and felt zero temptation. I never have cravings. I have been through plenty of traumatic things (like deaths of people I care about, breakups, pain, illness) yet still had no desire to use.

I am posting now after all this time both to (selfishly) ask for help and to remind others that there IS hope, it IS possible to get to a place where you are not battling your addiction or physically dependent on anything.

The main thing that has brought me back here is that a family member is now addicted to heroin (albeit smoking it). And it's heartbreaking.

I now feel some inkling of what my family went through when I was actively using. Even with having successfully gotten myself off heroin and coaching others in their processes, I still have little idea what to do in this case. There is no perfect advice or perfect way to support someone. This person cannot take the same path to being free from opioid addiction that I did, plus it took me many years to get to that path and I would love to be able to help save them from that. I am damaged from having been on methadone for so long. I'm now accepting of and at peace with that but it has frightened me away from recommending maintenance "therapy" to anyone. But abstinence-only programs are highly ineffective. More effective treatments are not an option due to their high cost. This person has currently (apparently) been clean for 2 weeks - I am feeling so torn as to what to say when I am asked if starting Suboxone now is a good idea. If rehab is a good idea. What nebulous, often off-putting concepts like self-help and spirituality mean in practical terms and how to encourage someone to take those steps.

Perhaps some crowdsourcing on these topics could help?

Thank you.

[Mods: If this is in the wrong forum or should be two separate threads, please move it or let me know what to do.]

 

[sliceofcake]

Swimmingdancer, you are asking the billion dollar question. I've been reading BL daily since September trying to answer this question for myself. I'm figuring out that there is no answer, at least no one size fits all answer.

I'm seeing my role in helping a loved one quit as supporter. I can't be blind, I can't enable but I also have to understand the complexity of addiction, how mental health plays a role.

It is sad to see someone you love tossed about by addiction to heroin, or any substance I suppose. Heroin seems the most serious and carries a stigma but I have leaned here that there are other drugs out there that are just as controlling and perhaps even more destructive.

For my loved one who is young, this started a long time ago but the real physical dependency started at 19. We do this process together. We started with outpatient. That is over and they recommended her to inpatient. There was no willingness so we are sort of doing our own inpatient at home. Based on others in my family I truly believe that inpatient only works if you really want it. If you ask for it.

We do regular drug testing, lots of accountability, mental health therapy twice a week. And acceptance. For a family it's a ton of work and like having a small child. Being careful how you word things, being patient and supportive and accepting. And being ready for anything.

It's hard not to get pulled into old patterns that give the addict a reason to use. It's really hard and you get tired and want to just give up sometimes. But I can't right now.

My feeling is that subs are an option in the future if nothing else works, it's a huge commitment. AA/NA are options depending on the person. There is Smart recovery which we may try in the future but it's 90 miles from us. Notice that I keep saying we.

As a person who has battled your own addiction are you willing to take this on? You are right, it is heartbreaking and we really are powerless. As a supporter to an addict you have to get used to failure as part of success and that's pretty hard to do.

 

[Moreaux]

Swimmingdancer - Kudos on your sobriety!

You say this person has been clean for two weeks - do they actually want to quit or are they being pressured to quit? If they want to quit then they should look into the Vivitrol shot as it blocks the high they can get from opiates, and it helps with cravings and anxiety. The shot lasts for 30 days. If the shot is not available or is too expensive they can get it in pill form - naltrexone. Something else that would be helpful would be for them to figure out what's driving them to use and work on resolving it. If they have been totally clean I would question Suboxone as they would essentially be reintroducing the problem, and then at some point they will have to stop it and go through withdrawals again. On the other hand, I think Suboxone would be helpful if they have a history of relapse. Of course, keep in mind I am not an addiction specialist or a medical professional - this is just my opinion. I have managed to kick several addiction and have over two years sober now, so I do have experience.

I also want to say I'm sorry you are in this situation. It's emotionally taxing and difficult, however, it does give you the opportunity to see how you family felt when you were addicted. I once loved an addict who had an addiction to my DOC, and a worse habit. They eventually developed cancer from their use, and died. I remember trying to help them get sober, and the stress and pain when they would relapse or disappear, and the hurt from all the lies. It made me realize what I was doing to my family, and it helped me really want sobriety. Of course, watching them die a slow horrible death was also a big kick in the ass for me as I didn't want the same fate.

I wish you the best!

 

[placid space]

Swimmingdancer - Kudos on your sobriety!



. I once loved an addict who had an addiction to my DOC, and a worse habit. They eventually developed cancer from their use, and died. I remember trying to help them get sober, and the stress and pain when they would relapse or disappear, and the hurt from all the lies.

I wish you the best!

can you please elaborate a bit on te cancer connection, why you believe the drug was the cause ?

 

[Moreaux]

can you please elaborate a bit on te cancer connection, why you believe the drug was the cause ?

That's what the doctors had said. He had cancer of the stomach and esophagus and was always drunk and high. He also extensively used chewing tobacco, and would even sleep with it in his mouth. The cancer didn't slow him down, continued to use to the very end.

 

[placid space]

I am damaged from having been on methadone for so long. I'm now accepting of and at peace with that but it has frightened me away from recommending maintenance "therapy" to anyone. But abstinence-only programs are highly ineffective

what do you mean by that, damaged from methadone?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Swimmingdancer, you are asking the billion dollar question. I've been reading BL daily since September trying to answer this question for myself. I'm figuring out that there is no answer, at least no one size fits all answer.

I'm seeing my role in helping a loved one quit as supporter. I can't be blind, I can't enable but I also have to understand the complexity of addiction, how mental health plays a role.

It is sad to see someone you love tossed about by addiction to heroin, or any substance I suppose. Heroin seems the most serious and carries a stigma but I have leaned here that there are other drugs out there that are just as controlling and perhaps even more destructive.

For my loved one who is young, this started a long time ago but the real physical dependency started at 19. We do this process together. We started with outpatient. That is over and they recommended her to inpatient. There was no willingness so we are sort of doing our own inpatient at home. Based on others in my family I truly believe that inpatient only works if you really want it. If you ask for it.

We do regular drug testing, lots of accountability, mental health therapy twice a week. And acceptance. For a family it's a ton of work and like having a small child. Being careful how you word things, being patient and supportive and accepting. And being ready for anything.

It's hard not to get pulled into old patterns that give the addict a reason to use. It's really hard and you get tired and want to just give up sometimes. But I can't right now.

My feeling is that subs are an option in the future if nothing else works, it's a huge commitment. AA/NA are options depending on the person. There is Smart recovery which we may try in the future but it's 90 miles from us. Notice that I keep saying we.

As a person who has battled your own addiction are you willing to take this on? You are right, it is heartbreaking and we really are powerless. As a supporter to an addict you have to get used to failure as part of success and that's pretty hard to do.

Thank you Wow, no way would my family member submit to regular drug testing unless required by law or to receive medical care and neither would I so I am amazed you were able to get yours to do it. I'm not personally into NA nor did I find it helpful but I'm not sure if it might help for my family member; they haven't given it much of a shot. I feel like having battled my own addiction makes me more ready to take this on, if anything. Really I am first and foremost doing it for my other family members who are being much more affected by the situation than I am and who I care deeply about. But my only choice other than trying to help everyone involved would be to just sort of ignore it. Your advice about support and accountability is good. What techniques do you use regarding accountability?

Swimmingdancer - Kudos on your sobriety!

Thank you!

You say this person has been clean for two weeks - do they actually want to quit or are they being pressured to quit?

They say they want to but I can't tell how badly they want to. I think the main thing that prompted this effort to quit was risk of losing their job. And then of course we are all pressuring them to get help and to stay clean, but not in the ways some families would.

If they want to quit then they should look into the Vivitrol shot as it blocks the high they can get from opiates, and it helps with cravings and anxiety. The shot lasts for 30 days. If the shot is not available or is too expensive they can get it in pill form - naltrexone. Something else that would be helpful would be for them to figure out what's driving them to use and work on resolving it. If they have been totally clean I would question Suboxone as they would essentially be reintroducing the problem, and then at some point they will have to stop it and go through withdrawals again. On the other hand, I think Suboxone would be helpful if they have a history of relapse. Of course, keep in mind I am not an addiction specialist or a medical professional - this is just my opinion. I have managed to kick several addiction and have over two years sober now, so I do have experience.

I also want to say I'm sorry you are in this situation. It's emotionally taxing and difficult, however, it does give you the opportunity to see how you family felt when you were addicted. I once loved an addict who had an addiction to my DOC, and a worse habit. They eventually developed cancer from their use, and died. I remember trying to help them get sober, and the stress and pain when they would relapse or disappear, and the hurt from all the lies. It made me realize what I was doing to my family, and it helped me really want sobriety. Of course, watching them die a slow horrible death was also a big kick in the ass for me as I didn't want the same fate.

I wish you the best!

I'm so sorry about your loved one. I'm glad you were able to learn something from that tragedy.

Unfortunately Vivitriol is not available here. We have oral naltrexone but at least with the injection the person only has to pluck up the courage to get the shot once and would then have to wait a month (technically anywhere from 15 to 50+ days depending on the person) before they could feel drugs again, whereas with the pills they have to convince themselves to take it every day and know full well they could get high in a day or two if they just don't take the pill. Am I right to think risk of a heroin overdose is not a huge concern compared to if they were injecting it?

Yes there is a history of relapse but they have never been clean this long before to my knowledge. Assuming they are in fact actually clean.

One thing I am having difficulty with is resisting judging this person based on behaviours that harm other people that I deem "worse" than mine was when I was using.

what do you mean by that, damaged from methadone?

I have lasting health problems from it. Most of them are not improving so I have come to accept that I may live with some or all for good. I can elaborate if you like.

 

[herbavore]

Hey swimmingdancer! First, I am so so so very happy to hear that you have been able to walk away from addiction stronger than ever. I know how hard you struggled, and how long. When mods leave Bluelight "in some vague slowly-ghosting way" my heart always fills with fear--because I know what it could mean. I am so thankful that not only are you all right, you are solid.

As far as your family member goes....I feel like I will be asking these questions for the rest of my life. What is the difference between enabling and supporting? What are the useful tenets that can be taken from each modality of thought around addiction and treatment and which are the tenets that actually harm and should be re-worked or tossed altogether? The one thing that I know is that the tendency to focus on the drug use itself, while understandable, falls short of addressing the true crisis. There is always a reason that a person tries to assuage pain in their lives. How can we support each other to find the roots of that pain?

Even in the middle of your own struggle you were able to give wonderfully nuanced advice here on BL. I think that you have an understanding, at least far beyond mine, of what you can and cannot do. I hope that you can use this thread as a support for you. You may or may not be able to effect change in your loved one no matter how perfect or imperfect your support. So, the best you can do (and I do give al-anon credit for teaching me this) is to make sure that you, the support person, stay as healthy and centered and calm as humanly possible under the circumstances.

Watching someone you love crawl back to get kicked again and again is one of the most painful things you can go through. My heart goes out to you and to your family. If you ever feel that you need any extra support, PM me. I have so much respect for you and I am so sorry that you are having to suffer this now.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Thank you so much herbavore! Nice to see that you and neversickanymore are still here. Although that doesn't surprise me - you have always been so devoted to the forum.

Those are all excellent questions. It's certainly not black and white. I absolutely agree on the focus on the drug use itself detracting from focusing on the causes of the drug use.

My biggest goal/role in this is to provide support and advice for the family members who are directly caring for the addicted person. Sorry for being so vague about the details about my relationship to them etc, I am just trying to be discreet and considerate in case they happen to be a reader of Bluelight. Let's call the addicted family member B.

Right now the situation is pretty calm. But nothing much seems to be happening as far as treatment. B is supposed to go to rehab but who knows when. Suboxone was suggested as an adjunct or while waiting for rehab, but there is still a waitlist to get on Suboxone as well and B says they have been clean from opioids for weeks now so none of us are sure whether it's a good idea to begin Suboxone. One person is of the opinion that it would be far better for B to be on Suboxone than to risk an overdose by potentially using after having a drastic tolerance reduction from going a while without using heroin. Especially given that all the "heroin" here is either partly or fully fentanyl, to the point where it has been declared a public-health emergency and there have been way more overdose deaths than usual, with half of them involving fentanyl. As far as I know B has never injected so I feel the risk of death from smoking opioids is at least lower than from injecting but it is still scary. Not to mention that B has a history of taking other drugs or opioids in pill form.

As for supporting B in order to find and heal from the roots of their pain, that is one I have a tough time with because it is ultimately up to them to work on those things, all I can really do that I know of is make suggestions about things that helped me, but they don't seem to do them. Like if I suggest a book to read, big deal since B doesn't read it. Any suggestions?

 

[neversickanymore]

Hell yeah swimmingdancer very nice to see you I hope yout way better than fine!!!!

 

[neversickanymore]

What about putting in a deterrent instead.. since they are over the withdrawls why not consider Narcan therapy or the implant.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hell yeah swimmingdancer very nice to see you I hope yout way better than fine!!!!

What about putting in a deterrent instead.. since they are over the withdrawls why not consider Narcan therapy or the implant.

Hi!!! Nice to see you too and I hope the same for you. I am doing very well. We discussed opiate blockers a bit above. The naltrexone (naltrexone is what you mean, Narcan is naloxone and is used to reverse overdoses) implant or injection are not approved for use here, only the pills. And they really don't seem to be widely prescribed. I don't think it could hurt to look into it though.

 

[neversickanymore]

Yep that's what I would do.. but if not available then subs would be my next choice. Please give them the talk about relapse and OD.. I know pretty common knowledge but we still lose good people everyday.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I've been trying to give that talk but I don't think they hear it. I just lost another friend to a fentanyl overdose.