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History Of The Bible, Accuracy Etc.

Turbo Monk said:
killarava those are assumptions and theories
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Yes, theories based on factual evidence. What do you have to offer, hmmm?

" "Satan you were beaten by the cross"
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I say at night, "Satan you beat off over the cross." I always find masturbation so sleep-inducing, especially after a good Satan fantasy :)
 
i'm so happy a thread about Biblical history has turned into an attempt for converting people.. really cute.

Does anyone know if there's a fully compiled NT and OT with all the "omitted" books in it in the order its supposed to be? Like the Gospels that are supposedly from Mary, or the Dead Sea Scrolls?
 
Converting others is the main function of the modern believer. In the past religion was purely about mystacism and getting into experiences with God through meditation and stuff. Some of these old practices do still exist, but today the average believer is completely ignorant when it comes to spiritual activities. The average person would set up to become like the saints, spiritually changed individuals connected to themselves and god on a higher level. Now that no longer exists in mainstream religious life.

From what I read and saw the church had a period where mystics were ridiculed and condemned, inprisoned and finally killed along with witches. These mystics used to control the church, but then others took over and threw them out purely so they can take political control of the religious institution along with society as a whole. They then just hide behind the cloth, and mostly declared wars and were overcome by greed. Was this the origional intention of JC? Doubt it. What he taught was a type of mix of spiritual life and mystical experiences, if you dont get that then you miss the whole point IMHO. Modern beliefs dont tend to get that at all, so they just go around doing lesser things like converting others.

I dont know much about muslims, not one so I cant really comment but what I've heard in documentaries is that they had a similar occurance. When the wars with the christians really took off, the mystics were given the flick and warlords took over. Although its still fascinating to look at the remanants of spiritual life that still exist in their culture, as it is to look at the ones that exist in the church.
 
Read "The Jesus Mysteries - Was Jesus a pagan god?" by timothy free and peter gandy

a book about the origins of christianity and the bible - it has at least 50 pages of detailed endnotes to back up the research...a good book to read if you are interested in the validity and accuracy of the bible and christian ideas
 
... blinded their eyes and closed their minds, so that they could not see, and their minds would not understand, and they would not turn to me, says God, for me to heal them.


/bails this thread
 
okay...
check out shonfeld's _the pasasover plot_ & _the jesus party_ for some plausible speculations...
(at least more plausible than allegro, heh...)
 
The bible may not have been translated word by word. If they did that then it wouldn't make too much sense in the language that it's being translated in. However, the meaning IS translated accurately. Think about something simple like a translation from English to Spanish. Let's translate this sentenece: The blue house is beautiful. LA CASA AZUL ES BONITA. In spanish the verb comes first. So if we were to translate that back to English word by word it wouldn't make sense. "The house blue is beautiful."

Ok maybe I'm just causing more confusion...I just confused the heck out of myself but I guess what I'm trying to say is BELIEVE. Have faith in God's word. If there are discrepancies in the bible caused by human error then God is not going to condemn us. Do and believe whatever your heart tells you. Religion will always be controversial and my answers to your questions will never be sufficient. Some one will always have something to say about other's "opinions" or "facts" The bible wasn't given to us to prove it or disprove it.

It was made for us to guide us and share the word of God with others. But that is my view on it. I've been through so much in my life and I've spent many years coming up with excuses not to read the bible or believe in a God I couldn't see. I mocked him so much and I had a little booklet of Jesus Jokes too. It was all fun and games but one night I woke up and I just broke down into tears. I was overwhelmed by a feeling I have never felt before. I kept on thinking about my thoughts as a little girl and how much better my life was when I was faithful to God.

I realized how empty I was in my teens without God and I turned to drugs to fill that void. It took a tradgedy to open my eyes and my heart back up to God. I pray for all disbelievers and scientists, philosophers, and intellects. Because what good is your knowledge going to do when you do find the truth? What good is all this analyzing and research when the day comes for his judgment on you?

I sound like a nut because the enemy has got you real good like he had me for a long time. It's set in your heart, carved like stone that the bible is man made. You're so sure that Jesus was not crucified because you read it out of a book a MAN WROTE and you believe that? God bless you all.
 
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^
i put spaces in your post, makes it much easier to read and you might get more serious posts that way. People tend to breeze right over large unbroken blocks of text. Just thought i'd help :)
 
The bible wasn't given to us to prove it or disprove it.


yeah, it was merely to be believed in. Not questioned. That's what turns many people, such as myself off from it, especially with some of its more outrageous claims.

I personally believe jesus was crucified.. for his beliefs. And i find him admirable. I tend to respect Jesus though as a man with a philosophy and through out the religious/superstitious mumbo jumbo. A teacher, just like buddha, lao tzu, etc...

I've read the bible and it makes a good moral fairy tale. Kind of an intellectual classic novel version of Aesop's collection of fables wrapped into one long book. Its an amazing story. Though i do find many "ideals" in it to be dispicable, but the grotesqueness and shock value of it is what makes it appealing. Literary genius. But i doubt God is real, or at the very least, any particular and specific human version of god.
 
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An interesting exercise is comparing the basis of validity of the Bible to the basis of validity of other religious works.

If you believe the Bible is historically accurate, as well as containing some inherent "truth" as given by God, then how do you feel about the validity and divine origin of the "Book of Mormon", which was translated with the help from divine sources from inscriptions on gold tablets by Joseph Smith?

Antiquity does not imply accuracy. Do you accept both as valid? And if not, why not?
 
Void said:
Converting others is the main function of the modern believer.
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The above quote only applies to christianity. Judaism does not attempt to convert, in fact it discourages it. Judaism does not believe that everyone else is going to hell.

The NT has a million internal (by which I mean the gospels dont even agree) as well as external contradictions (by which I mean, the books can not be reconciled with what historians believe). Do a google search on the web. Im not going to name them all. (an obvious one is the timeline around jesus birth (presumably an important event) is impossible to reconcile with history).

The debate over whether jesus existed continues. Obviously, a large part of the world and the U.S. is Christian so they believe he existed and that he was the son of g-d or god incarnate. Among atheists and non-christians, opinion is split (as to whether he existed-obviously atheists and non-christians do not believe he is g-d)

Many non-christians doubt jesus existed, or if they concede he existed than they doubt whether he was crucified. (Again, do a google search-you can see the million articles pro and against)


The koran asserts that jesus was not crucified.

The gemara (ancient jewish text) describes about 5 people with stories similar to what the new testament describes. The Gemara also describes the Christian movement as begining about 150 years B.C. In that 150 years, there were about 5 ppl (one actualy named Jesus) who preached christian teachings-3 were crucified and 2 were stoned (the guy named jesus actually was stoned and not crucified).

Many Jewish scholars believe that NT jesus was actually a combination of those 5 people with a large plurality based on the guy actually named jesus. To support their theory (and thats all it is, unless you were alive 2000 years ago, noone can know), they point to the stories in the gemara about the 5 people, the fact that early christian writings fail to mention jesus as a flesh and blood person until about 100 years after jesus' supposed crucifixtion.

They also point to the fact that the book Jewish antiquities which describes all of the important ppl in Jewish history that was written around the turn of the first millennium makes no mention of jesus as an important person (which supports the notion that there were several and it was the christian movement that was important).

(There is a section that talks about Jesus and his ressurection but the church admits that it is a fraud. some church scholars insist that the whole section is not a fraud just certain parts about the ressurection were added-well never know)

The saying goes that the victor writes history. Christianity has been victorious now for nearly 2,000 years and even the church admits that certain writings are not legit.

Bottom line is that religion (all religion) is belief, if you choose to believe that is your choice. Just because there are arguments to knock holes in christianity (as there are for all religions) does not mean its invalid. Often ppl believe things they cannot prove.

Many things I believe in I can not prove . Personally, I do not find christianity or the existence of Jesus as g-d and savior convincing but that is my belief and everyone is free to believe what they want. What bugs me is when christian missionaries suggest (and I have seen it at old age homes) that you have to be out of your mind not to believe in christianity.

Ok, Ive got to get back to work.
 
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Christians do not try and "convert anyone" God does however tell christians (meaning Christ-like) to:
Mark.16
[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
This means we are to let others no that the only way to get to heaven is to beieve that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you from your sins and accept him into your heart as your personal savior. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT RELIGION YOU ARE, if you believe this you will go to heaven. And by christians spreading this news they aren't trying to convert anyone. They are mere passing on information
 
If you like Fords and I tell you how great Chevy's or Hondas are I'm not trying to convert you into a Chevy person. I'm mearly spreading news about my feelings. Now in answer to your ? Why believe in the unprovable. Look at it this way.

Let's say you or any nonbeliever (since I don't know your beliefs) is right and there is no God, heaven, hell, etc. and when we die we just lay in the ground and rot. Than I have lost nothing by living my life believing in what I do. But now let's turn it around and say that I am right and you do go to either heaven or hell when you die. Well now you have lost everything by not believing and I have gained.

So basically, you have nothing to lose by believing but a ton to gain if you do. It's a win - win situation
 
^^^^

The obvious problem with that argument (which was uttered by a famous philospher, cant remember which one) is that it (if anything) it argues for the belief in g-d, not jesus as g-d or any religion in particular.

Also, it is very offensive to non-christians (myself included ) to be told that I am off to hell because I do not believe that jesus was the son of g-d.

Frankly, I truly believe that if the worl we currently live (which is filled with pure evi) is after the coming of the messiah, there truly is no g-d.
 
discussing differences in beliefs and dictating are two seperate things that alot of people, myself included, get confused quite easily.
 
No more offensive miami than someone telling a christian there is no God. But it should never be argued because at the end of the day we should all go to sleep knowing we did our best to try and be nice to anyone we encountered throughout the day. And for that reason although I do not apologize in my beliefs I am sorry that you found offense in my stating them.
 
OCbinger said:
No more offensive miami than someone telling a christian there is no God. But it should never be argued because at the end of the day we should all go to sleep knowing we did our best to try and be nice to anyone we encountered throughout the day. And for that reason although I do not apologize in my beliefs I am sorry that you found offense in my stating them.
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But note that non-christians do not have the reputaion of going around advocating their beliefs (although probably some do).

Anyway, No offense taken. I have no issue with most believing Christians I know. I enjoy the friendly debate. I'm not anti-religious. Actually, Im more religious than most ppl. We just believe in different religions. (Although I note that yours came from mine =D)

(Yes, I know your response is that yours improved on mine ;)

Oh and give me back my ice cream.
 
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