High doses amphetamine vs high doses methylphenidate, what's more unhealthy?

[glab]

High doses of amphetamines are unhealthy, I assume that this is the general consensus among scientists now.
But even normal therapeutic doses of amphetamines could be unhealthy, some claim.

I wonder what about MPH? From what I know MPH is considered neuroprotective, other than amphetamines.

But what if a person uses high doses of MPH above the therapeutic levels? Would it still not be able to cause neuronal damage
like high dosed amphetamine does?

Or can it cause damage as well?

Personally I don't feel comfortable with AMP for ADHD anymore. It doesn't seem to be worth the risk. If MPH is more safe then I'd rather
take MPH. Why risk damaging your dopamine neurons?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I would put an educated guess on Methylphenidate being the more unhealthy of the two in equipotent CNS dosages. I'm basing this on the fact that Methylphenidate causes more peripheral nervous system stimulation mg per mg than Amphetamine does. Tachycardia, Hypertension etc. are unhealthy, so this is what I'm basing my answer on.

 

[morphine-dreams]

I think methylphenidate is more cardiotoxic and acutely dangerous. Amphetamines would be more dangerous in the sense of the lack of sleep, appetite loss, and dehydration because of the longer duration. High-ish doses of Adderall never seemed too hard on my heart, but I'd feel like shit if I neglected food and hydration.

Edit: neurotoxicity is only really a concern in the case of frequent, long-term, high dose use. If you binge once or twice but give yourself time to recover, you'll be fine. Abusing any drug will be unhealthy in some way, but I don't buy that therapeutic use of certain stimulants in those with ADD/ADHD is harmful. When I use adderall therapeutically on a regular basis, my cognitive and executive functioning improve dramatically.

 

[glab]

Why do you think MPH is harder on the heart?

Are you talking referring to MPH boosting DA and NE?

I heard that D-Amphetamine is milder cause it boosts DA and works more on the brain, while DL-Amphetamine also boosts NE which has more systemic effects and
can cause systemic side effects like heart issues.

Is this what you mean?

Other than that I don't see why MPH should be unhealthier than DL-Amphetamine.

I mean if you take a huge dose of DL then you also get the systemic side effects. Why should this be less unhealthy than a huge dose of MPH?

 

[morphine-dreams]

Like Kief Richards said (love the username by the way), methylphenidate causes more PNS stimulation. I was also thinking methylphenidate would be more likely to be cardiotoxic due to its supposed structural similarities to cocaine, but it's surprisingly hard to find any good info on this, especially not having any knowledge on organic chemistry. There are also MANY anecdotal reports of worrisome cardiovascular side effects (i.e. chest pain) with high doses of methylphenidate, whereas the majority of high-dose amphetamine users seem to report tachycardia and hypertension, and not necessarily to a very severe degree, instead. I don't have any real evidence for you, it just seems like people can abuse amphetamines more with less effects on the heart, at least when compared to methylphenidate.

Edit: I'm not saying taking a huge dose of either is healthy or safe, it just seems like amphetamines are *less* likely (not unlikely) to cause a severe cardiac event, like a heart attack, at equivalent doses. I tried to look up some studies but I couldn't find any, so this is just a guess.

 

[4meSM]

Methylphenidate is a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
Cocaine acts the same way, it the inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. It does that by "blocking" the DA,SER and NE transporters which leads to an increased extracellular concentration of the 3 neurotransmitters.

BUT cocaine, unlike methylphenidate, is also a local anesthetic. It's a sodium channel blocker so after consuming cocaine some of it gets into the heart and it has the potential to mess with the mechanisms that control the heart rythm. That's why cocaine is considered cardiotoxic, methylphenidate is not IIRC.

Amphetamines are mainly DA,NE and SER releasers.

I don't know the answer to the question, I'd actually like to know which of those 2 mechanisms is more unhealthy in high doses if we compare dextromethylphenidate to dextroamphetamine. The "levo" isomers have more PNS effects though, that usually means more side effects, I believe.

 

[glab]

If it boils down to NE and the systemic side effects which NE causes then MPH and DL amphetamine should be equally unhealthy for the heart.

But I was more thinking about neurotoxicity.