Misc High Dose Seroquel CAUSING insomnia??

[mrmarkvile]

When prescribed for sleep, I know it is most effective when taken in doses of 25-100mg (although I have heard of people taking 200mg+).

I am prescribed Seroquel (Quetiapine) for psychosis not sleep. I am supposed to take 300mg twice a day but I usually take the 600mg all at night or I end up dosing off or binging on carbs during the day. The 600mg is pretty reliable at knocking me out (I do also take Diphenhydramine, Trazodone and Cyclizine which could increase the sedation).

i have found that if I take any more than 900mg I often end up awake all night. 1200mg or more and I'm definitely awake all night and have Restless Leg Syndrome, which I have only ever experience before with opiate withdrawal.

Has anybody else noticed high doses having an almost stimulant effect? Is there a ceiling dose of Seroquel, whereafter it has the opposite effect?

i find this perplexing and would be very interested in your thoughts/experiences

P.S. I do have problems sticking to the prescribed dose of meds, which is why I mention having experience with several different doses. I am working on this.

P.P.S. I'm not actually new to this site, I just recently got badly hacked on my laptop and had to delete all of my accounts and make new ones.

 

[Speed King]

According to the quetiapine (seroquel active ingredient) wiki article, insomnia is among the common side effects. I guess it's caused by the dopamine antagonism, which also gives you the restless legs syndrome.

How does it feel to be on a drug like that? Are the effects somehow enjoyable? Or does it just make you like zombified and not caring?

It makes you (a decent amount of people) feel fucked as in what I like to call a "side effect drug". IMO, it's nice if your in jail. It's like the Propofol of anti psychotics (my reaction to it),except when you wake up, a person can feel like shit.

 

[mrmarkvile]

A lot of people don't like the effects (I've heard people refer to it as the dysphoria drug), but I like the feeling I get from it. Taken at at a dose of 600mg at night, it always gets me to sleep pretty quickly (maybe twenty mins after I get in bed, which is miraculous for me). It's also really good for anxiety and irritability; it just sort of blunts them so you don't feel them. Unfortunately, it also blunts good feelings too for a lot of people. Personally, possibly because I am also on Zoloft, I feel happy almost to the point of hypomania sometimes during the day (as long as I don't take any Seroquel in the mornings).
Overall I really like being on it.
The bad things about it are that at doses above 600mg you get the insomnia and Restless Leg Syndrome. I don't know if you have ever had RLS but it fucking SUCKS. It does give you a zombied out feeling. I enjoy it, it's similar to being stoned, but most people dislike it. I think because when you first start taking it you do feel spaced out and tired but as with most drugs, the negative side effects go away as your body gets used to the Seroquel. I'm glad I am on it. I'd definitely not stop taking it if my psych gave me the option

 

[Båtmannen]

First of all, like someone wrote: what do you expect when using a drug because of it's side effects?

Secondly: 600 mg is a HUGE dose. It's not rare with people taking 1/10 of that.

Either you try a lower dose, or you go with a more pure anti-histamine, without the anti-psychotic effect - like alimemazine or hydroxyzine - in combination with melatonine and/or Zopiclone/Zolpidem. This combination will most likely put you out.

 

[mrmarkvile]

I would take Zopiclone or Ambien but my doctor won't prescribe it. I got six zopiclone a few years back and it was brilliant, but you can't be prescribed it long-term. None of the medications you suggested are available without a prescription and doctors where I live (UK) are extremely reluctant to prescribe anything that could be addictive and very stingy with them when they do (me getting only six pills for example and to get them I was so bad I was hallucinating from sleep deprivation and broke down crying in his office).

Diphenhydramine, Promethazine and Doxylamine are all we have as over-the-counter sleep aids. Herbs like valerian root too, but that did fuck all for me.

 

[mrmarkvile]

First of all, like someone wrote: what do you expect when using a drug because of it's side effects?

Secondly: 600 mg is a HUGE dose. It's not rare with people taking 1/10 of that.

Either you try a lower dose, or you go with a more pure anti-histamine, without the anti-psychotic effect - like alimemazine or hydroxyzine - in combination with melatonine and/or Zopiclone/Zolpidem. This combination will most likely put you out.

Is 600mg really a huge dose? I thought it could go up to 1200mg for some people? I guess I am pretty small (118lb) for a high dose.

 

[Båtmannen]

I'm not sure if I misunderstood or not. I took it you use it for schizophrenia, but now your problem is insomnia? If I was wrong, and you don't need help sleeping, just ignore my last suggestion.

Is 600mg really a huge dose? I thought it could go up to 1200mg for some people? I guess I am pretty small (118lb) for a high dose.

Well, while 1200 mg has been studied in patients with schizophrenia, it is way, way more than what most people actually get. I have met several hundred people using quetiapine, and doses above 400 is very rare. It's more common to try something else if you're going that high. I know more is officially allowed, but it's rarely used.

Most people, whether they're using it for sleep or as an anxiolytic or - like you - as an anti-psychotic, start below 100 mg. I'm big and I can take large doses of pretty much any drug, but 600 mg would be too much for me. Not that I would pass out from it, but it would most likely be very uncomfortable, but I wouldn't be able to sleep from it due to RLS/akathisia.

If you really need it (tried olanzapine?), ask your doc for some trihexyphenidyl, or Biperiden if you somehow can use it IM. Yes, it wil dull your mind, but if you're already using 600 mg Seroquel per day, that doesn't seem to be a problem. It may actually help alot, and it will add to the sedative effect. I've always thought that anti-cholinergic should be used as another side-effect-hypnotic. In larger doses, it's very effective, even if lower doses can be stimulating to some people.

 

[ratHouse]

This blog post explains how some drugs create different effects at low versus high doses.
It takes some mental concentration to read and understand the whole post.
You'll be required to picture a champagne fountain at one point.
If you're not up to it at the moment, you can try again later.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html

 

[Båtmannen]

This blog post explains how some drugs create different effects at low versus high doses.
It takes some mental concentration to read and understand the whole post.
You'll be required to picture a champagne fountain at one point.
If you're not up to it at the moment, you can try again later.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html

Thank you, but is it accurate? The picture says that olanzapine almost has no affinity for a-receptors at all.

Yes, it's a bit weaker than Seroquel's, but is it really as much as the picture tries to say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olanzapine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetiapine

 

[George27]

How does it feel to be on a drug like that? Are the effects somehow enjoyable? Or does it just make you like zombified and not caring?

It is a good slepping pill ( around 50mg), not enjoyable at all.
It is also a ruthless killer of amphetamine high, a master in putting you to sleep after using meth, much much better than benzos.
I use it for insomia (25-50mg), after 10 years of use I have developed no tolerance at all it works like the first day.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Is 600mg really a huge dose? I thought it could go up to 1200mg for some people? I guess I am pretty small (118lb) for a high dose.

600 mg is quite a huge dose, the maximum daily dosage for schizophrenia is like 750 mg/day