Opioids Heroin lasting longer with Buprenorphine in system

[RTrain]

So I have been on Suboxone, went 3 weeks and now I have been using several bag of heroin a week. I only take 4 mg sub a day, 2 morning/2 late afternoon.

Now I typically dose my morning Sub when I am going to score H and then score and use about 8-10 hours later. The blockade isn't too bad at this point and I have been redosing 1-2 times that day, then I save a bit for the morning. The odd thing I have been experiencing is waking up the next day and feeling almost no withdrawal when I would usually. This morning is the 3rd time it has happened. When I am using H regularly I don't get through a full nights sleep before I wake up feeling mild-moderate w/d. Same for Suboxone, I take my last dose of the day at 4-6p and wake up the next day between 6-8a feeling depressed and no energy, then take my Sub and it picks me up. I find this odd, is it just b/c I haven't used the heroin in a little bit? Or is is cause there is still some buprenorphine in my system?

Granted I used a lot of heroin the last 2 times, but last night I used about 1 bag. My guy said it was new stuff, real good, and I 100% believe him. It seems to be really good, but I wouldn't think its that good.

 

[TimKT9]

It is probably because there is still alot of buprenorphine in your system. It builds up in your system. You also probably aren't getting the full effects from the H because of this. Suboxone has a half-life of roughly 37 hours, so you definitely still have it in your system the next morning after dosing at 4-6pm.

 

[pro re nata]

you are most likely using more heroin then you typically did, no??

it is kind of strange that when you normally take your buprenorphine like you mentioned that you wake up feeling shitty... are also feeling sick?? or just low? it builds up in you system quickly and typically you can get by with dosing every 24-hours. it sounds like your body is just maybe use to and processes bupe a certain way as we are all different. but could be just part of PAWS/depression, an adjustment period or playing back and forth with adding the full agonist.

it sound like when you are adding the heroin in that it is simply adding more to your receptor sites and is caring you through more of an extended time then you/your body are use to. with buprenorphine alone as you just mentioned you are just feeling depressed and low energy but not sick.

take care with mixing the two of these worlds with your world.... if you choose to just stick with your bupe maybe play around with your dosing times and amount taken at those times. are you using heroin again on a regular basis or a day to two every few weeks or so??

 

[RTrain]

^I wouldn't call it feeling sick when I wake up while I am using the Suboxone, its just very early w/d, like fatigue and depression. Not like if I am using heroin and wake up with moderate w/d. IDK, but I seem to feel the need to dose Sub twice a day. I don't like to take more than 2 mg at a time, mainly because I want to feel the highs and lows of it. I'm sure if I dosed 4 to 8 mg in the morning I could go all day, but I like how it wears off and I get a pick me up later in the day.

Yeah I am chipping with the H, and trying to stay with the Subs. Made the mistake last week of using H for 3 days though and getting back was kinda rough, so this time I am using 1 day and then back to Subs. I have to think the reason its lasting longer is after waiting about a week my tolerance drops a bit, but I noticed last week after 3 days my tolerance seemed to spike up after about 2 days and I wasn't really getting high by the 3rd day with the same doses.

 

[pro re nata]

have you only been on suboxone for three weeks - a month??

if so then you are for sure going through an adjustment period hens the feeling low and depressed in the morning. to me those are symptoms of later in withdrawal over the early more physical part. but we are all different! even tho you are on another opioid it is a partial agonist and this transitional time can represent or bring on feelings of PAWS. i think it is smart to stick with the 4mg... give it a bit of time as it sounds like you really want to stick with JUST the buprenorphine which i also think would be smart!

with in time i think the dose you are 2mg am / 2mg pm will work out just fine and this morning depression and slag will start to dissipate for you. with keeping your dose in that range it will make things a lot more easy on you when you are ready to try and start stepping down off bupe!!

try to steer clear of heroin and really work and use your buprenorphine for what is there for and i am telling with a bit of patience you will start to feel better and more consistent then you have in a minute!!

 

[Lemonopi81]

I have read so many stories on here about ppl doing this cycle of bupe/H and then the poster wonders why the effects that they got in the beginning of trying to juggle the 2 isnt the same when they`ve been off and on both. The purpose, which i`m sure u knw, of suboxone is an agonist- to trick ur mind into thinking it`s getting it`s "fix", so when it gets the REAL stuff, your brain will not process it as such. As far as waking up in the pre-w/d state, it is b/c ur brain nvr really absorbed that last dose of H u did \vc the bupe was already on ur receptors. Best thing to do, which is Much Easier Said Than Done, is to use bupe only, especially unitl it`s half-life has been consumed by ur body, atleast 40 hrs to b safe. And if u choose to do H after that time and need to use subs/bupe afterwards, truly wait till ur in full w/d to get the most desired effects of the sub/bupe. Hope i didnt come across "know-it-all-y" its jst i`d hate to see either the H or the bupe go to waste and bombard ur receptors to confusion

 

[RTrain]

Ya its basically taking a step back but I honestly wouldn't be on the Suboxone if it wasn't for financial reasons. I enjoy using and its been really hard to get away from it. I am in a position where nothing has drastically changed in my life since I became an addict. I have progressed my career in the right direction, thats about it. I stated using thinking it would make my life better, what a trip.

 

[TimKT9]

Yea i would say to really try and quit the H. Suboxone is meant to be a maintenance drug and not go back and forth. I know, I've been there, going back and forth between sub and a full agonist. It fucks with your body and fucks with your head. Do you have desire to quit the H and get clean? If you do, you can up your dose of sub a little bit and try and quit the H

 

[RTrain]

Yea I know this is a steep cliff, I thought I could do the Sub with 1-2 days of H thing before and I fell on my face.

Also there is the issue with my Sub Dr and I think he is getting wise to my use. I've seen him 4 times, 1st time I had been on Subs for appx 5-6 days because I had them left over from another Dr., so might've pissed hot because I it'd been around a week since last H use. 2nd visit should've been clean, no use for almost 2 weeks. 3rd I used just 1 day about 6 days before appt, and yesterday I went in and had used for 3 days the prior week and it'd been 6 days since last use. I actually rescheduled cause to put it back 2 days and give me more time to clean out my urine.

Thing is I was picking up on some odd signs that made me think I tested positive. First the urine collector asked if I had used since last visit, but when she collected from the 2-3 ppl after me I could hear and she did not ask them if they had used. Then I saw the dr and he asked me right away if I had used at all since I had seen him. It'd been 3 weeks since I saw him because I only saw him(the main dr at the place) the first time, saw different drs the next 2 times. I said "no" and he didn't push the issue, seemed to accept the answer. He was also looking at my urine results and said "okay the second test was better". IDK if he was looking for morphine metabolites because I failed the dipstick but passed the gc/ms or he was talking about my bupe levels from one appt to the next. Then he kinda surprised me by Rx'ing a 2 week supply as opposed to one. Caveat being he still wants to see me the next week, said he was trying to help me not have to deal with weekly Rx co-pays. But I alsmot feel like he is testing me to see if I come in knowing I won't get a script, its hard to say.

 

[pro re nata]

typically it takes 72 hours-ish for heroin to clear out of your system for a urine screen. you are kind of playin with fire in that if you drop dirty more than once in such a short period with what sounds to be a new doctor you could loose him.

it sounds like they are just trying to get a feel for you as a person/patient. work with him openly and honestly and it will help build trust with him and your script.

i would get two months worth of burenorphine from my doctor at the time, 2 fills ranging around 150 8mg pills (buprenorphine hcl). it is the generic way cheaper and my insurance covered it, a months supply would only coast me 10$. different doctors, different issues.... .. no matter what doctor i have had there has for sure been a time period of around 6 months of building a relationship and trust between each other.

keep on your suboxone and keep working at it!! you will get there!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

If you keep going back and forth from bupe to H, eventually, the bupe is not going to work well at all and you'll be in a very bad spot when you actually need it. You'll have to start waiting much longer in between doses of H before taking bupe to avoid PW's, and you're going to have a much shittier transition period.

 

[RTrain]

^Thanks, I am surprised I hear a lot about people like you getting a month or more Rx'd at a time. My co-pay is the came, and it seems to not make a difference in the qty., its a flat rate regardless.

I would imagine if I am failing its the morphine dip stick tests and when he does the advanced gc/ms for 6-MAM he is finding nothing since it only tests up to 72 hours. From what I have read its 3-5 days for the dip stick to read morphine positive.

I do plan to be up front with him if he tells me I am failing the tests. 9/10 times honesty will at least buy you a second chance.

And I really am an idiot for not sticking to it, because my dream job does a hair drug screen. The hiring for the job is tough to predict, if I get an interview it will be a letter sent to my house inviting me for the interview. I have 2 weeks to reply to that, then the interview within 2 weeks. Then its questionable when they do the screening if I get hired. A friend who got the job said it took them awhile, but I wouldn't be one to put my money on it being more than a month, though my friend made it sound like 2-3 months later. As it is I'd have at least a month between getting the interview invite letter and the test, so I need to get clean and stay on the Subs.

 

[pro re nata]

yeah buddy.... .. you have got it, just have to stick to it!! you will break the cycle of prolonging the transitional period and your early day blues and low energy will become less and less. sounds like you have a good outlook and plan in working with and building a solid relationship with your doc.

keep on it. as this job you are speaking of sounds serious and you sound seriously excited.. shit, "dream job"!! good for you and best of luck with obtaining this new career!

just think if every thing goes as planed with the process in acquiring this job and the only thing that is fucked in all the protocol is the hair test. shit. not good. this could be a major trigger for a relapse and a spiral you do not need. keep looking forward, fuck standing still. heroin tends to want us to do just that. if the 4mg- 2mg am / 2mg pm just is not cutting it for you after a week or two from being abstinent from all heroin use talk with your doctor about it. hope it all works out for you all around and you can stick with the 4mg!!