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Opioids heroin displacing water

I know 1+1=2 now it could be a big 2 or a small 2, but you will always have some type of increase. Take mixing Rocephin with lidocaine. You add 2.1 ml of lidocaine to 1 gm of Rocephin. You come up with 3ml in the syringe. Rocephin's space is 0.9ml. It all depends on the volume of the substance you are adding to the mix.

Btw always make sure they add lidocaine to Rocephin. It is a very painful antibiotic to have IM with out it.
 
tricomb said:
^ Very interesting Zoeylynn, I always enjoy reading your posts.
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Why thank you Tricomb!!
I do my best. <3
Bluelight is awesome web site with such supportive members. I'm so glad I found this site. You can learn so much all in one place. I like that it really is dedicated to harm reduction. That's not a ploy BL hides under.
 
Zoeylynn said:
Why thank you Tricomb!!
I do my best. <3
Bluelight is awesome web site with such supportive members. I'm so glad I found this site. You can learn so much all in one place. I like that it really is dedicated to harm reduction. That's not a ploy BL hides under.
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Yeah, HR is no front. :)
 
^ Not if it dissolves; a soluble substance that dissolves in the solute (water in this case) will not cause an increase in volume. I imagine there are insoluble cuts in the heroin, however. Insoluble particles will increase the total volume. This shows the importance of using a decent filter (ideally a micron filter) when prepping shots..
 
effie said:
^ Not if it dissolves; a soluble substance that dissolves in the solute (water in this case) will not cause an increase in volume. I imagine there are insoluble cuts in the heroin, however. Insoluble particles will increase the total volume. This shows the importance of using a decent filter (ideally a micron filter) when prepping shots..
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There has to be some increase. Even if it's hardly noticeable,1+1=2. When you change the molecule by adding something and 2 different molucules bind you have a increase in size even if it's only sharing ionic bonds. The mass of the substance still changes. There is a change in weight and size. I might be wrong. Can you share a source I could read up on?
 
^ No you're right, I wasn't being very precise and I'd forgotten some of my chemistry! There can be a small increase. There can also be a small decrease (as happens with NaCl + water) or the volume can remain the same. Practically speaking the change is usually minimal if the solvent is water and the solute doesn't have a huge molecular mass. The solute doesn't bind to water in any way; all the ions are entirely free-moving in a solution and a solute can fit between the water molecules without increasing overall volume..

Mass certainly does increase (in a 1+1=2 fashion) as that depends on the number of molecules present but volume depends on the arrangement of molecules as well as quantity. There can definitely be small increases but it isn't 1+1=2, it's often more like 1+1=1.1 or less..

The change the OP noticed is highly unlikely to be due to dissolved diamorphone IMO and far more likely to be due to insoluble cuts.

OP, you've posted this thread in 3 forums - please don't crosspost! I don't want to close this and look like I'm having the last word and not letting anyone follow me haha but in future it will be. If you post in the wrong forum we can move it across for you.

Zoey I'll have a rummage for sources tomorrow, got minimal internet access right now sorry! Sekio mentions the concept of no volume increase in ADD here though. It's a pretty complicated topic I seem to remember but my chemistry is pretty rusty.. so I may not be entirely right. Got a weird fascination to find out more about solute-solvent properties now :D
 
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^ agree entirely, go BL! <3

Tommyboy said:
^
It's called water (or fluid) displacement. It's used to figure out the volume of anything that doesn't have a specific shape with a designated volume formula. As tricomb stated the volume of your heroin was 5ml since it's the measurement of the displaced fluid, or difference between initial volume and final volume after adding the heroin to it.
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Heroin (well, diamorphine) is soluble though so fluid displacement doesn't apply, I thought, as that works for insoluble particles but not solutes? There can be a small increase in volume if you dissolve a solute in a solvent but it's not equal to the solute volume, as the solute slots in between the solvent molecules. Adding NaCL to water even causes a decrease in overall volume.

Tric I don't think you could determine the volume of powder in the way you mention as any volume change in the soluvent is going to be much less than the solute + the solvent.. Chuck a cup of sugar in a cup of water and you don't get a solution that has a volume equal to two cups. If the powder is insoluble then you could, though, and you could work out mass that way :)

There seems to be some confusion with mass, which definitely will increase, and volume in this thread. Mass depends on total number of molecules and their molecular weight; volume on the number of molecules and their arrangement in space.

I'd got it a bit wrong in the BDD thread (pls don't crosspost OP) - I thought I remembered from my chemistry days that there would always be no volume change but that isn't the case (thanks Zoey :)) - the volume can increase, remain static or even decrease as with NaCl and water - but usually there is a small increase. I would think that insoluble cuts would be far more likely to cause the volume increase than dissolved diamorphine, though.

Note: it's been 8 years since I did any chemistry hehe so I could have got this all wrong :D I don't mean to correct anyone I'm just enjoying some chem-chat *geek*
 
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When you mix a substance with water 99% of the time the volume will increase and very rarely decrease depending on the substance. For example, if you mix 100mL of water with 10mL of ether, you will not obtain 110mL of solution but you will have the exact mass of the 2.
 
OP, there's no need to repost this thread all over the board, I'm going to merge your threads together into one. Please don't cross-post in the future.
 
Zoeylynn said:
There has to be some increase. Even if it's hardly noticeable,1+1=2. When you change the molecule by adding something and 2 different molucules bind you have a increase in size even if it's only sharing ionic bonds. The mass of the substance still changes. There is a change in weight and size. I might be wrong. Can you share a source I could read up on?
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To find the simplest example possible, when you mix water and ethanol, you get volume decrease:

http://www.chymist.com/Decrease in volume.pdf

Also, when you mix water and salt, you get volume decrease. 1+1 = 2 applies for mass only, volume is something...variable because it varies with everything including temperature.
 
And one must take into account the difference between volume, mass, and density. Mass is simply weight (minus gravitational acceleration) in g or kg. Volume is like area, in 3-D so multiply by meters to get meters cubed, no indication of mass. Density is volume x mass in units grams per cubic meter or something.

Just because you've got a fat bag doesn't mean you've got a lot of dope.

**assuming constant molar ratio of cut to drug**

molar mass of cut > molar mass of drug => less potent
molar mass of cut < molar mass of drug => more potent
molar volume of cut > molar volume of drug => more potent
molar volume of cut < molar volume of drug => less potent

**assuming constant volumetric ratio**
density of cut > density of drug => less potent
density of cut < density of drug => more potent

(somebody plz check this, I've been drinking lol)
 
Gaz_hmmmm said:
I second this! She's very informative and seem to know her stuff!
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Thank you!! <3
I try to contribute and my thoughts seem to be valued here and that makes me feel awesome. I pretty much can't do what I use to do, nursing, being a civil servant on this site makes me feel like I'm still accomplishing something in my life. I maybe be physically disabled but my fingers and mind still work. =p
 
As somewhat mentioned by effie, if something is fully dissolved then it will fit in between the molecules thus not adding any volume.

Additional volume = non-dissolved substances
 
^ And that in turn means there was more of a cut, so ending up with too much extra volume could actually raise a red flag which was something I never really considered before from a HR standpoint.
 
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