Heroin Heroin Degrading Into Morphine

[Ashley]

Does anyone know roughly it takes for diacetylmorphine to degrade into morphine when left suspended in water?

Ash.

 

[sekio]

It's variable depending on pH.

I believe in a neutral solution (ph 7) it's something like 10% every 12 hours.

 

[SteeleyJ]

Doesn't it also start degrading into other shit like 6-mono acetyl morphine and 3 M A M as well as morphine when it degrades ? also what is the ratio if anyone knows, like is it mostly morphine and some 6-mam and 3-mam, or is the morphine the most prevelant and the other ones not so much ?

Just curious, not trying to hiijack your thread OP, it just made me curious reading it.

 

[Ashley]

It's variable depending on pH.

I believe in a neutral solution (ph 7) it's something like 10% every 12 hours.

As to the 10% every 12 hours at a ph of 7, then it would theoretically take 120 hours (5 days) to completely transition from diacetylmorphine into regular old morphine suspended in a liquid solution (water).

Doesn't it also start degrading into other shit like 6-mono acetyl morphine and 3 M A M as well as morphine when it degrades ? also what is the ratio if anyone knows, like is it mostly morphine and some 6-mam and 3-mam, or is the morphine the most prevelant and the other ones not so much ?

Just curious, not trying to hiijack your thread OP, it just made me curious reading it.

Not hijacking my thread at all mate, everyone's comments are welcome.

I too would be curious to know if it 3-MAM and 6-MAM end up in the solution along with morphine and had also been wondering that, and if anyone knows the ratios and also understands the process as to why this happens (as I don't).

Ash.

 

[Ashley]

Found this on opiophile.org (http://forum.opiophile.org/archive/index.php/t-28302.html for those of you who are interested:

Heroin is most stable in mildly acidic conditions, and when kept refridgerated it will keep for a month. But it's not stable in basic conditions, especially hot basic conditions where it breaks down rapidly.

So if you were to add dissolve the heroin in water, and a pinch of baking soda, then boil it for a few minutes, most of the heroin would break down, first into 3-MAM and 6-MAM, and these get broken down into morphine. The solution would then contain mostly morphine freebase and baking soda, so you'd have to add citric acid to get it to dissolve into water again.

Also heroin isn't just a way of getting morphine into the brain, it's a way of getting 6-MAM into the brain. It's the 6-MAM that gives heroin it's extra euphoria over morphine. The heroin breaks down in the brain into mostly 6-MAM with a little bit of 3-MAM, this takes a couple minutes. Then it takes an hour for most of the 6-MAM and 3-MAM to get broken down into morphine.

So most of the heroin rush and the best part of the high happens before hardly any of the dose has changed into morphine.

In the quote, Paregoric Kid posted, "Kinetics of heroin deacetylation in aqueous alkaline solution and in human serum and whole blood." It talks about just that, translated it says:
diacetylmorphine [heroin] breaks down into monoacetylmorphine and the monoacetylmorphine [breaks down] into morphine.

Diacetylmorphine breaks down twice as quickly in blood as in serum (blood plasma with no red blood cells). And morphine was found from [the break down of heroin] in the blood, but in serum they found moonacetylmorphine but not morphine."

Also, I'm not sure quite what this means, but it seems to me he is suggesting that diacetylmorphine degrades to monoacetylmorphine (3-MAM & 6-MAM) with no morphine present after the experiment.

Personally, I am interested in conducting an experiment by deacetylating diacetylmorphine for the resultant morphine and/or 3-MAM, 6-MAM to sample. Especially due to rush of heroin being put down to the 6-MAM.

Ash.

 

[SteeleyJ]

I've always read that 6-mam is very euphoric and would explain why heroin trumps morphine, now another question pops into my head.... would 6-mam be more euphoric in pure form then diacetylmorphine ? Or am i missing other factors contributing to diamorphine high?

 

[Ashley]

I've always read that 6-mam is very euphoric and would explain why heroin trumps morphine, now another question pops into my head.... would 6-mam be more euphoric in pure form then diacetylmorphine ? Or am i missing other factors contributing to diamorphine high?

You are correct in believing that 6-MAM is very euphoric, it is the main metabolite of diacetylmorphine (heroin) responsible for the rush that is experienced. 3-MAM is also involved to some extent. Which is why this idea is very appealing, if I let an amount of diacetylmorphine in water (preferably alkaline, from what I've read this speeds the process up) to deacetylate then I would get to experience 6-MAM and 3-MAM.

Ash.

 

[The Dope Man]

if you just let a shot sit for that long it will be full of bacteria and get you very very sick.

I sugest micron filtering it then let it sit in biostatic water and then miconing it again prior to use. Thats the only "safe" way to do it.

still dont think it would be worth the effort.

I wish they made medical grade 6MaM

 

[Ashley]

Yeah, of course I wouldn't just let it sit in a aqueous tap water solution inside a fit in a drawer or anything like that! Micron filtering of course and it would kept in the right conditions, and in sterile water naturally. It's really not that much effort and I would be interested in the resulting rush and high.

You could always synthesize your own 6-MAM, as yeah it sucks it isn't manufactured for some purpose or another - not that I know of anyway. As my chemistry skills aren't developed far past a methamphetamine synthesis, this is currently my only option to sample 6/3-MAM, etc.

Ash.

 

[basileus]

Don't think it would be much better than regular heroin. Since it does get metabolized to 6-MAM anyways. You'd probably get a slightly stronger but shorter rush.

 

[Tommyboy]

I found this when looking for info on the stability of heroin in aqueous solutions intended for maintenance programs.

Literature data indicate that stability of aqueous diacetylmorphine solutions is dependent on pH, temperature, and concentration. Stability testing of 1 and 20 mg/mL solutions in saline showed that 90% of the diacetylmorphine content remained after storage at 4ºC for 15 days. When stored at room temperature, stability of these solutions was limited to 7 and 12 days, respectively [10]. Results from more concentrated aqueous solutions (31.2 and 250mg/mL) showed 4-5% and 14-18% losses of diacetylmorphine after 8 weeks of storage at 4ºC and 21ºC, respectively. Furthermore, after 2 weeks of storage, concentrations above 15.6 mg/mL were reported to show turbidity or even precipitation [9]. According to these data, the shelf-life of an aqueous solution would not be sufficient for diacetylmorphine HCl to be formulated as a ready-to-use solution for injection.

---

After reconstitution with sterile Water for Injection, diacetylmorphine HCl 3 g/vial was found to be stable for six days at room temperature. Suitability of the product for multiple use was supported by the fact that the reconstituted product was found to be antimicrobially active. [source].

The basic answer to your question is 6 days at room temperature. The maximum time to use it after mixing the solution was determined to be 12 hours, but that is probably because it was prepped under different conditions.

 

[Ashley]

So after 6 days at room temperature, how much of the diacetylmorphine has deacetylated whilst in the solution? And to what? Morphine, monoacetylmorphine, 3-monoacetylmorphine, 6-monoacetylmorphine.. Anything else? Is there still some diacetylmorphine left over in the solution along with these metabolites?

From what I am understanding regarding what you quoted Tommyboy, it would take quite a good while for the process of deacetylation to complete (i.e. until only morphine, 3-MAM, 6-MAM, etc remained in the solution).

Ash.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

3-MAM and 6-MAM interest me as well. Wikipedia states that both of them are C-I in the U.S. (go figure). 6-MAM's half life in humans is around 6 minutes (!!)

Here's an abstract of some research regarding 3-MAM and 6-MAM's roles in heroin's addictiveness (vs. morphine, for example).

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

This isn't really helping the thread but I know that here in the UK it's standard procedure for doc's/nurses in hospital to throw freeze-dried diamorphine/heroin once mixed up in the bin if it's still in solution (i.e. not been injected into a patient) after 8 hours.

So potentially alot of pharm' grade Heroin going to waste in UK hospital biological waste bins if you dare dumpster dive!

 

[klonodonian]

A related question. Heroin being 4x stronger than Morphine per mg, if you let your H degrade back to Morphine would you have an equivilant dose of Morphine to the amount of H you started with, or would your H lose 75% of it's potency reverting back to Morphine?

 

[Ashley]

My guess would be, if it degraded exclusively from diacetylmorphine to just plain old morphine, you would have a compound 4 times less potent by weight than the heroin it deacetylated from. That's tough though, cause if there is 6-MAM present in the solution, which is 6 times more potent than diacetylmorphine by weight, then you may very well end up with a stronger shot.

I'm gonna do some more research on this in the coming few days. I was reading about the compound in general as well as different routes of synthesizing 6-MAM around 6 months ago - the chemical is quite interesting and poorly understood, especially considering it is what everyone attributes as being responsible for the godly rush that heroin delivers. 3-MAM is even less understood, and it has been suggested that it too plays a part in the rush of heroin.

Like I said, I'd make my own 6-MAM but I've got parole hanging over my head, and it's a tad more complicated than a simple HI reduction of pseudoephedrine. So for now, I'm gonna have to stick to letting heroin deacetylate in sterile water to yield the mysterious 6-monoacetylmorphine.

Ash.