Benzos Help with making A Diclazepam Propylene Glycol Solution?

[kleinerkiffer]

^but in this case don't make a solution near the maximum concentration or some diclazepam might fall out of solution in the fridge


What do you mean by that and how am I supposed to get the last little bit of powder out of the bag or am I going to loose a bunch of MG's worth of product from it. So loss of potency and loss of MG's from the Powder sticking to the tray plus bag are the only things in between me and using this bad investment to help me wean down fuck sakes I am screwed.

What I mean by that was, like JA said, if you create a saturated solution at 20?C (let's say 20 mg/ml) and you put said saturated solution in the fridge solubility will drop and now at say 0?C the maximum saturated solution can only be 10 mg/ml, the rest will crash out of solution, changing your concentration. But as you only want a 1 mg/ml or 2mg/ml solution iirc you shouldn't worry about it.
You might loose a few mgs in the process, but imo you shouldn't worry too much about it. Should the solution not feel strong enough you can always take a little more, say 1.1 ml instead of 1.0 ml

 

[kleinerkiffer]

First of all, iirc you asked about the difference of elimination and clearance a few weeks ago, right?
Here's something from the book "Biopharmazie" by Langner and Mehnert, 5th Edition:

Elimination (Abfluten), schlie?t den Metabolismus und Ausscheidung (Exkretion) ein
Clearance gibt den Teil des Plasmavolumens an, der pro Zeiteinheit durch einen bestimmten Prozess (z.B. renale, hepatobili?re oder metabolische Elimination) oder durch globale Elimination (Summe aller Eliminationsprozesse, Gesamtk?rperclearance oder totale Clearance) von der betroffenen Substanz v?llig befreit wird

Elimination scheint das gro?e ganze zu sein und Clearance ist i.d.R. nur ein Teil davon bezogen auf das Plasmavolumen, kann aber im Fall der Gesamtk?rperclearance eher ein Synonym der Elimination sein

You should keep in mind that diclazepam has a very long half life even compared to clonazepam so it will accumulate until a steady state is reached but I don't know how you can calculate this from the relations of potency/duration/accumulation etc. and it's further correlations with the increasing tolerance due to accumulation

All the calculations are based on this paper, but this is preliminary data with N=1, plus they bought pellets instead of synthesizing the diclazepam themselve/buying it from a trusted source like S-A, so

the amount of diclazepam per tablet ranged from 0.59 to 1.39 mg (median: 0.95 mg, mean: 0.94 mg, SD: 0.23) (n = 13)

Here's the data I worked with:

The highest concentra-tion of diclazepam (3.4 ng/mL) was detected in the sampleobtained 3 h after the intake

terminal phase of 42 h

Volume of distribu-tion and clearance were 8 l/kg and 165 mL/min

VD for a 70 kg person is 560 l

Now first of all I wanted to check the half-life for shits and giggels
One can use this equation: t1/2 = (0.693 * VD)/CL = ( 0.693 * 560000 ml) / 165 ml/l = 2352 min = 39.2
Given that this is only an approximation I'll take the 42 h

Now for steady state (Css) I used this equation: Css = D / (DI * CL) with D=dosage; DI= dosis interval and CL=clearance
I'll do it for 1 mg every 24 h
Css = 1 mg / (24 h * 165 ml/min) = 1 mg / (1440 min * 165 ml/min) = 4.2 * 10^-6 mg/ml = 4.2 ng/ml
This is around 1.2 as high as the peak plasma concentration after a single dose of 1 mg which seems about right.

The steady state is reached after 3-5 * half life, so 3*42h - 5*42h, so around 5-9 days

If you want to reach steady state earlier you can start with a loading dose (usually the loading dose shouldn't be too high due to side effects etc, but we're talking about benzos so a huge therapeutic range and the dosage isn't extremely high)
D(loading) = VD * c = 560 l * 4.2 ng/ml = 560000 ml * 4.2 ng/ml = 2.3 mg as a loading dose

Now this is all based on a single paper with a single man taking a diclazepam pellet, so I'd be cautious. And keep in mind, those are just some numbers that don't represent real life completely. Everyone reacts different so it's important to look at the bodies reaction as well, like tremors/shaking, heart rate and blood pressure and dose accordingly

 

[sleepwalker]

Hello,
I'm making a diclazepam PG solution, 3mg/Ml.
Now I'm in no rush so i'm giving the bottle some warm baths and shaking the bottle.
I just started making it a couple of hours ago.
When i look through the bottle I see little specks going down, when i move the bottle upside down.
Am i right to presume that any microair bubbles wouldt go up to the upper surface?

So what i see now are still unresolved specs of diclazepam ,i suppose.
Anoyone have any idea if thisis correct thinking?

I willtake it slow until i know for surethe whole solution is equally mixed, just curious for the progress.
Thanx in advance!

 

[Thomas29]

First of all how do I take this Propylene Glycol it tastes like ass I made the solution but I don't know what type of drink to use to take it with that won't degrade the Diclazepam is diluting like 3ML of Propylene Glycol in Water or some enough to get rid of this nasty ass taste while plugging my nose or what?


I don't understand if Diclazepam has a half-life of roughly 42 Hours than that should be roughly the same half-life as Clonazepam this doesn't quite make much sense and I understood none of klienerkiefers post does the 1.2MG after a 1MG dose mean that the active metabolites do indeed have an effect can make it stronger? I mean the first part was not even in english to start the rest I literally do not understand and in canada we do not use NG/ML for measurements my dr. told me which is unimportant but thought I'd point that out yet I don't how it pertains to my solutions potency and I assume keeping my solution in the fridge will prevent or at the very least slow down the degradation of potency?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

First of all how do I take this Propylene Glycol it tastes like ass

Totally, bad tasting liquid is way worse than benzo withdrawal. Root beer maybe?

..in canada we do not use NG/ML for measurements my dr. told me which is unimportant but thought I'd point that out yet I don't how it pertains to my solutions potency

Canada uses the metric system and therefore does use ng/mL. 500,000ng/mL= 0.5mg/mL. It was part of the formula to figure out your answer, as in 4.2 * 10^-6 mg/ml = 4.2 ng/ml.

I understood none of klienerkiefers post..I mean the first part was not even in english to start..

KK was trying to tell you the half life and how long it would take for the Diclazepam to accumulate & reach steady state in your system from very limited data by finding one of the only available papers published, then doing the calculations to get you an answer. He translated the formula to come up with your answer from German. Only the first quote & sentence was in German as well. You should probably thank him for all that work.

You asked about half life recently, which = elimination/clearance :

I Am ordering Diclazepam Powder and all I need now is to figure out how successfully make A Propylene Glycol Solution out of it...
So can anyone maybe give Me point Me into the direction of an existing thread on these forums for an actually descent educated and estimated/confirmed half-life for Diclazepam or it would be good to know even if I Am completely stuck with simply guess how long the half-life is?

With an approx half life of 42 hours it should take 5-9 days to reach a steady state. If you didn't have that kind of time it could be done quicker with a loading dose of 2.3mg, BUT, it would be prudent to slowly titrate your dose upwards as this is an RC benzo and everyone is different.

I don't understand if Diclazepam has a half-life of roughly 42 Hours than that should be roughly the same half-life as Clonazepam this doesn't quite make much sense..

If you're not understanding T1/2, clearance/ elimination/ volume of distribution, then maybe it's best not to get too hung up on active metabolites (M1,M2,etc) and just see if it will keep you from having benzo WD's.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Hello,
I'm making a diclazepam PG solution, 3mg/Ml.
Now I'm in no rush so i'm giving the bottle some warm baths and shaking the bottle.
I just started making it a couple of hours ago.
When i look through the bottle I see little specks going down, when i move the bottle upside down.
Am i right to presume that any microair bubbles wouldt go up to the upper surface?

So what i see now are still unresolved specs of diclazepam ,i suppose.
Anoyone have any idea if thisis correct thinking?

I willtake it slow until i know for surethe whole solution is equally mixed, just curious for the progress.
Thanx in advance!

From some reports I've read it can take 24 hours to a couple days for the diclaz to completely dissolve. It's already been a couple days since you posted so I imagine things have cleared up, if not then you might not have a high purity powder or there's a problem with the PG.

Agitation and gentle warming are about the only things you can do besides lowering the ratio of the solution. Hope it worked out SW.

 

[Thomas29]

Thanks for the reply jekyl anhydride my Dr. told me Canada didn't measure in ng/ml when asking about my low ass Testosterone wtf he is being an ass about the fact that my testosterone levels are clearly fucking low as fuck for a 25 year old telling me but that's not point of this post.


Wouldn't root beer of all things be the worse to put the Diclazepam solution in considering the carbonization and all the other stuff that make it acidic like is Diclazepam not susceptible to being destroyed by the acidity or is it just a matter of drinking it quickly?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

First of all how do I take this Propylene Glycol it tastes like ass I made the solution but I don't know what type of drink to use to take it with that won't degrade the Diclazepam is diluting like 3ML of Propylene Glycol in Water or some enough to get rid of this nasty ass taste while plugging my nose or what?

You should be fine to use any drink you want, like JA suggested root beer might be an option, fruit juice should be fine too

I mean the first part was not even in english to start the rest I literally do not understand

Sorry for that, the part I posted in german was a reply to something Soulfake posted a while ago as I was too lazy to search for said thread. It had nothing to do with your questions. Again, sorry for that!

I assume keeping my solution in the fridge will prevent or at the very least slow down the degradation of potency

Yes, it will slow down the degradation process so you shouldn't worry about loosing much potency

I don't understand if Diclazepam has a half-life of roughly 42 Hours

Diclazepam itself has an estimated half life of 42 hours, this does not take into account the half life of active metabolites

 

[Thomas29]

Wouldn't root beer of all things be the worse to put the Diclazepam solution in considering the carbonization and all the other stuff that make it acidic like is Diclazepam not susceptible to being destroyed by the acidity or is it just a matter of drinking it quickly?


Here I got jekyl saying the Active Metabolites don't matter like they don't on Diazepam and I can say for fact they do matter as I took a larger dose the other day and I am certainly feeling the longer acting metabolites still especially the muscle relaxation from the Diazepam Metabolites when compared to when I first started the Diazepam it felt like I was using sugar pills even when I took 40MG trying to replace 1MG of Clonazepam.


So your saying if you include the Active Metabolites 1MG should eventually be equal to 1.2MG once the active metabolites reach steady state plasma levels.


Edit: I just tried to drink it with root beer and nearly gagged and puked. I had to plug my nose just to gag it down and I'm assuming I did not use enough root beer I only used a small amount as I was worried I would just have a huge glass of nasty tasting liquid I would need to chug down. Maybe using Ethanol instead I can't imagine being much better if it could have the taste masked easier it would have it's downsides such as not knowing how much I will dose and getting to much Alcohol in my body etc.


Jekyl Anhydride if I have to choose between benzodiazepine withdrawal or drinking nasty liquid daily than I clearly as ever see the reasons behind people committing suicide in benzo withdrawal that is all I gotta say.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Wouldn't root beer of all things be the worse to put the Diclazepam solution in considering the carbonization and all the other stuff that make it acidic like is Diclazepam not susceptible to being destroyed by the acidity or is it just a matter of drinking it quickly?

Why would soda or juice degrade it when it can stand up to stomach acid?

Here I got jekyl saying the Active Metabolites don't matter like they don't on Diazepam and I can say for fact they do matter as I took a larger dose the other day and I am certainly feeling the longer acting metabolites still especially the muscle relaxation from the Diazepam Metabolites when compared to when I first started the Diazepam it felt like I was using sugar pills even when I took 40MG trying to replace 1MG of Clonazepam.

My reply was in regard to you stating that Diclazepam wasn't active and only the metabolites were. I never said active metabolites didn't matter (esp regarding diazepam), just that you shouldn't lose focus of diclazepam's effects as it's not a prodrug like say codeine.

Jekyl Anhydride if I have to choose between benzodiazepine withdrawal or drinking nasty liquid daily than I clearly as ever see the reasons behind people committing suicide in benzo withdrawal that is all I gotta say.

You're kidding right? Suicide vs a couple mL's of PG?

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Wouldn't root beer of all things be the worse to put the Diclazepam solution in considering the carbonization and all the other stuff that make it acidic like is Diclazepam not susceptible to being destroyed by the acidity or is it just a matter of drinking it quickly?

Like JA said, your stomach is extremely acidic due to the stomach acid (HCl) so you shouldn't worry about root beer or fruit juice or even cola destroying your diclazepam.

o your saying if you include the Active Metabolites 1MG should eventually be equal to 1.2MG once the active metabolites reach steady state plasma levels

All my calculations excluded active metabolites as it would be way to hard to include them should there even be enough info out there
What I tried to show with my calculation is that if you take 1 mg diclazepam every 24 hours you'll end up at a steady state of 1.2 mg diclazepam (not active metabolites) in your system after a few days.

 

[Thomas29]

If your here to help do not read this Post read the one below this Post asking a new question and explaining the situation that will explain this long-Post.


First of all thank you kleinerkiffer for clarifying everything you told Me and I understand the active metabolites have such varying things that make it impossible to calculate hence I was double checking what you were trying to convey to Me which I understand now but do you believe the active metabolites will make much of a difference in my taper like if I use the calculations simply for Diclazepam and wean down from there since I don't want to be getting stronger dose than I need but I assume the active metabolites won't make it that much stronger.


Ya well when it's in my stomach it's being digested and about the reply that jekyl said the loosing a mg or more from the 30MG i weighed in the scale maybe the amount lost in the bag is something I can't avoid but lol your telling me that safety of not knowing what dose I have inside my solution considering the fact I did my best to get it all in the solution but chances are it's weaker than what's supposed to be. Having something in acidity for a short period of time is not something I thought I should worry about and no I am not kidding about suicide in benzodiazepine withdrawal are you kidding Me do you know how many posts there are frequently on benzobuddies website with people offing themselves during there best to get off this poison!?!?


I am asking informative questions simply to be informed as I don't know if Diclazepam is sensitive to stomach acidity and I know some drugs such as a bunch of other drugs sensitive to acidity it was just a question and I get my head bitten off for it. Your talking to me like I am some kind of person dense in the head or something who does not understand probably more than you understand the working of benzodiazepines since you recommended flubromazolam to taper jekyl but I seriously hope to god that was a mistake and you meant to recommend using flubromaze-PAM not LAM again I hope that is.


I am referring to people who commit suicide during Benzodiazepine Withdrawal in general wtf in my post made u think it was about the dosing when I got a huge tolerance the point is people in Benzodiazepine Withdrawal which ONLY someone who has been through it themselves like Opioid withdrawal etc. truly understands what it can be like and I am really getting a good grasp on how and why people commit suicide especially if they have no help since if it was not with my friend who helped me do the math and is continuing to help me by simply talking me down when I was crying at night one time ready to fucking off myself for real simply brought on from lack of food and not even lack of sleep its just shit quality sleep passing out in my chair since if I lye in bed I can't sleep and this is getting off topic I don't and can't be drinking pop with plugging my nose daily and I feel like I may of literally wasted my money and it is perfect since I REALLY WANNA off myself now that someone has come along with 70 of the 2MG Rivotril Brand Clonazepam for a good price a little bit more than what I payed for the Diclazepam which I don't even know if I can use it EVERYDAY you do realize people have problems beyond what they are posting in the thread and I am know from talking to you that your a descent person so I know your not trying to upset me on purpose but I just thought you should know my feelings right now I am truly ready to call it quits u need to factor in the lack inhibition and all the other contributing factors in the suicide rates among patients undergoing withdrawal.



I got a huge tolerance out the ass which is the main reason... I am trying to lower my dose since I been using higher dose for 7 Months now due to angina pains and it fucked up my tolerance since I lost track of time of how long I been dosing higher than my normal 1MG of Clonazepam with like say 3-6MG as extra for some anxiety relief once a week since I can only use Methadone and Benzos together with some safety key word being some degree of safety more so than using either one of the substances without a tolerance to both that is literally the only reason I began using Benzodiazepines daily instead of once a week and now I am fucked unless I can get back to my 1MG maintenance dose and stay on it long enough to be able to use a higher dose once a week for what ever reason even if its just a day of anxiety free relaxation watching movies and playing video games I got the energy sucked out of me and I read a lot of long-term benzo users specifically Clonazepam experience just totally zapping of the energy in the body and they just can't function anymore and I am going on for longer than 5 Years of daily use so I am scared about not being able to withdraw from methadone first in time to withdrawal from Benzodiazepines totally off them before they permanently change my brain after like 20 Years of Daily use so ya suicide is welcoming thought and I really really don't wanna fucking die damnit I am 25 years young and I wanna fucking live my god damn life but I can't im living just a miserable existence.


a thought that just occured me how is accidentally consuming a few more MG's suicide since if anything that would be considered accidental O.D. if i am not mistaken so this is very frustrating to read these replies in this state of mind the only thing keeping me from loosing my shit completely is my friends and weed Cannabis being the blessed plant that is saving my ass like it has so many times and I pray thanks to god every time I vape my weed to gives thanks like saying grace.


I will make a thread to find out what is the best thing to mask the taste as if I can't drink this liquid daily without gagging and wanting to puke its one thing after another and it's mission impossible and i am not fucking tom cruise damnit. Keep in mind I am not fixing the typos I make as I simply don't have the time and I am so far gone from lack of food sleep and withdrawal plus the fact that I just can't type without re-reading it and editing it with very fine reading of all the words and details in it to make sure it makes total sense and even when I do it turns into an "assumption town" post.


I am not even going to touch the stupidity of comparing diclazepam's active metabolites it produces and the comparison of prodrugs like codeine and say specific Benzos lol **face palms**


Jekyl Anhydride again I have Private Messaged with you and you seem like a descent person just trying to help so I just want you to know I respect you not just for that but all the hard work you do and time you put in for simply helping others out in bad situations like mine right now and for no benefit to yourself other than knowing your helping people I assume so God Bless you for that.


Please keep in mind I made this post before even getting my Benzo dose consumed and absorbed into me which I've lowered down a bit. Yet as I am dreading having to drink pop and PG and my dentist told me to stop drinking acidic things like pop cause of my tooth enamel hence it's not an option for daily use besides fact that MK-677 increases Blood Sugar Levels which I gotta keep an eye on so sugar like this could/can/will spike my blood sugar and possibly to an amount that's to high oh and I haven't had my weed in me yet and I only recently woke up at 4 P.M. after falling asleep in my chair and finally getting in bed at fucking 7ish a.m. so shit quality sleep plus my O.C.D. making me squeeze my pimples which has a wound on the bottom of my nose stinging like hell since Clonazepam is actually Prescribed to treat O.C.D. it is not surprise that Benzo Withdrawal is making it a lot worse.

 

[The Shadow Self]

Diclazepam sucks balls.

Works great to taper, though. Might not be a euphoric benzo, but I used it to taper off of Clam, so that's good enough for me.

 

[H52]

I need it to replace the equivalent of 4.5MG of clonazepam daily won't that much alcohol with my 90MG Methadone my 60MG Baclofen I use for sleep plus the GABAPentin I take all be risky to consume with a daily amount of Diclazepam which I read someone says it is 1MG Diclazepam = 15MG Diazepam but due to the Metabolites and I read all over it is 1MG suspected to be 10MG and 2MG per ML would require how much alcohol like I been awake for 5 days and have probably lost 5 pounds in weight I mean at this point i am ready to just snort a bump of this shit and end it all like wtf.


I can't do math let alone think right now so fuck let me take a time out and see if I can grasp what the fucking question I need to fuckin ask even is which first of all what is the diclazepam to diazepam or any benzo equivalent dosing?... So i need to find money to pull out of my ass to buy everclear assuming I mission impossible complete that shit let's take to the I fucking suck ass as in i'm cognitively impaired from drugs fuckin lack of sleep lack of food lack over all just everything including patience since every fucking thing I have done is been nothing but a huge waste of my time hours and upon hours and hours attempting to figure shit out.


Now how long would it last in propylene glycol because 10-15% loss of potency is not acceptable when weaning down as I been through benzo withdrawal before and I cant even lower my dose by 5% without muscle spasms and twitches from eye lid to literally my calves are twitching. Even lowering my dose by as little as 0.125MG of Clonazepam roughly is enough to cause these horrible unbearable symptoms including insomnia that has had me up for 5 unbearable days.


That being said FORGET the PG as I can't get it yet and I will need the everclear to maybe like I put 200MG in 100ML Everclear and that's 2MG per 1ML solution correct but how long exactly will it take to dissolve? To equal 4.5MG i need literally 4.5 ML daily of this throat burning horrible shit everclear?


which is my only solution besides giving into the suicidal ideation that was expected but this shit show i see happening left and right and in front of my face in my life right now is not helping. I got to wait like 2 weeks before I get my money back and need to upload more money on my prepaid credit card and then I need to get ripped off for another fee for making another purchase of Propylene Glycol from a reputable popular online purchasing website where I'm told this is a rare for this type of thing to happen wow unlucky/lucky me i guess.


Not sure if this makes any sense if it doesn't i am sooo fucked but that's just how the cookie crumbles am I right y'all I would lol but I am literally to exhausted.

You can get propylene glycol on amazon or at a vape/tobacco shop