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Help: K withdrawls or benzo withdrawls?

altitudes

altitudes

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
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Ok, I recently detoxed off of mdone about 4 weeks ago. Leading up to that I had been using small amounts of benzos(mainly valium) for about 3 weeks. Before then I would use only on weekends. Maybe 3 days on, 5 off.

Once I started going through the mdone wd I would take maybe less than two bars about 3 times a day to knock me out. I honestly don't remember if it was more or less, but it seems like I was trying to be responsible as I know the addiction potential and want to be dependency free.

Anyway, the day after new years I got 10 grams of K which I used IM. It's all gone know, half because I threw my last batch down the toilet(maybe a gram) and used it all in a short period of time.

Now, the past two weeks I've been tapering and tried unsuccessfully to get off the benzos twice(first time about 3 days, second time two on wednesday, thursday). I was down to 10mg a day and felt alright, besides the sweating and crawling skin(which I don't know is if from the benzos or still from the mdone).

My symptoms include confusion, psychosis, mood swings, cold feet, dysphoria, sweating, muscle spasms, severe back pain(I may have injured my back lifting weights of in Judo) and possibly seizures. I was walking into my room, everything went somewhat white, I felt like I was going to vomit, and was in a sheer state of panic/psychosis, then I just dropped and woke up on the floor. This was after maybe a couple vials(.5g) worth of IM shots that day.

Now, when I take my benzo dose to help with this, I get knocked out for a long time. I took my last 30 mg dose at around 3pm today. I just woke up and am already starting to feel slight muscle twitches/back pain etc.

Is it possible to have such a high tolerance to benzos that you have to be completley knocked out to avoid withdrawl and such?

I did some research on ketamine withdrawal and actually found that they are beginning to think that it IS physically addictive. The withdrawl symptoms are almost IDENTICAL to benzo withdrawls. They are supposed to reside within three days. The main article I looked at was an article on two Chinese subjects(look on google for ketamine withdrawal).

So is this K withrawl or benzo withdrawl? Last time I tapered from benzos, if I went down a dose, I wouldn't be able to sleep for a couple nights, and that was a 2 bar a day habit.

Really need some help on this one, as there are so many things going on at once. I just wanted to get out of that damn clinic and off the opiates, now its biting me in the ass.

Mod's please move to the most appropriate forum that will help me as I have so many things going on and need some help with this.

I'm having trouble concentrating right now(or the benzo dose is killing my memory), so I will add more later if I think of it.

If it's the K, my plan of attack is to use the benzos to subside the symptoms for the 3 days, and then taper. If not, I plan to taper, but it will be hard as I'm knocked most the time from benzos.

Thanks guys!
 
I'm leaning more towards the benzo withdraws, and since I'm not a doctor, i hate to give any advice that might harm you, but, I would stop the K completely and reduce the bezo dose to as little as possible each day for the next week-week and a half or untill you've completely stopped taking them.

Keep us updated.
 
The K is all gone. I flushed it down the toilet, I don't know if it's due to the benzo confusion, the K psychosis, or my willpower. My last dose of K was at 4:30 today(about .3g IM), my last benzo dose was around 3(I think 30mg). It's somewhat hard to remember/concentrate right now, so I'm doing the best I can to relay info to you guys.
 
Addiction. 2009 Jan;104(1):77-87.
Ketamine use, cognition and psychological wellbeing: a comparison of frequent, infrequent and ex-users with polydrug and non-using controls.
Morgan CJ, Muetzelfeldt L, Curran HV.
Clinical Psychopharmacology Unit, University College London, London, UK. [email protected]

INTRODUCTION: Preliminary research has indicated that recreational ketamine use may be associated with marked cognitive impairments and elevated psychopathological symptoms, although no study to date has determined how these are affected by differing frequencies of use or whether they are reversible on cessation of use. In this study we aimed to determine how variations in ketamine use and abstention from prior use affect neurocognitive function and psychological wellbeing. METHOD: We assessed a total of 150 individuals: 30 frequent ketamine users, 30 infrequent ketamine users, 30 ex-ketamine users, 30 polydrug users and 30 controls who did not use illicit drugs. Cognitive tasks included spatial working memory, pattern recognition memory, the Stockings of Cambridge (a variant of the Tower of London task), simple vigilance and verbal and category fluency. Standardized questionnaires were used to assess psychological wellbeing. Hair analysis was used to verify group membership. RESULTS: Frequent ketamine users were impaired on spatial working memory, pattern recognition memory, Stockings of Cambridge and category fluency but exhibited preserved verbal fluency and prose recall. There were no differences in the performance of the infrequent ketamine users or ex-users compared to the other groups. Frequent users showed increased delusional, dissociative and schizotypal symptoms which were also evident to a lesser extent in infrequent and ex-users. Delusional symptoms correlated positively with the amount of ketamine used currently by the frequent users. CONCLUSIONS: Frequent ketamine use is associated with impairments in working memory, episodic memory and aspects of executive function as well as reduced psychological wellbeing. 'Recreational' ketamine use does not appear to be associated with distinct cognitive impairments although increased levels of delusional and dissociative symptoms were observed. As no performance decrements were observed in the ex-ketamine users, it is possible that the cognitive impairments observed in the frequent ketamine group are reversible upon cessation of ketamine use, although delusional symptoms persist.

PMID: 19133891 [PubMed - in process]
 
Pretty sure it's the benzos or I hurt my back worse than I thought. I think I'll go to the doc tomorrow and get my back checked out, plus I'm getting the sore throat/cough from hell anyways.
 
Man I have to be honest, I can be any number of things when you are that strung out on K and benzos during methadone withdrawal. It could just be a general 'my head is completely fucked' scenario or the remnants of methadone WD's which as I am sure you know can last months.
 
That sounds like benso withdrawal I reckon.....If your finding they still "knock you out" you probably don't have that high of a tolerance. 30 mgs of valium for me wouldn't do that at all- I take 4x5mg diazepam a day- 30mgs would simply make me a bit relaxed; 3 weeks is long enough for physical dependency to form (though having seizures and whatnot is unexpected); you NEED to taper down off any dose of benzo's. Obviously not if you don't use daily, but recent studies have shown dependacy to arise after less then a week of light, daily use. Give yourself a while- start a schuedule where we will assume you take 30mgs of diazepam a day; reduce by a quarter every two weeks or ten percent every week; I would opt for the faster one as you haven't been on them for too long.

Of course, the best thing for you to do is see your doctor and discuss this; also, figure out how much valium you take daily and for how long you've been doing that- there are a lot of resources for constucting your own tapering schedule. Benzo's simply cannot be stopped abruptly, and for valium, abruptly can mean not dosing for up to a day- the half life can be deceptive.
 
Probably lingering effects of Methadone withdrawal syndrome. Persistent physical and psychological effects will continue for several weeks to several months after the acute withdrawal phase is over with.

It sounds like you are jumping the hypochondriac gun. Developing physical resistance and tolerance to the effects of Benzodiazepines and Ketamine takes longer than you have been using either. I can't imagine anyone developing rebound symptoms from Benzo/K abstinence after such a limited amount of time.
 
Yeah, going to the doc tomorrow. My cough and runny nose is getting worse, plus there's a bad virus/flu going around town right now.

I guess I'll have to be brutally honest and ask if he can taper me off. It's hard for me to imagine it being methadone w/d's as I switched to morph for about 2 weeks before I went cold turkey. Shouldn't it have been out by then? It was probably a couple days short of 2 weeks.

I'm just in a lot of back/neck pain, muscle spasms, and confusion also memory problems, balance problems. Maybe I'm just so loaded on the benzos because of my back. Who knows?

I'll keep you updated. I switched to 45mg twice a day yesterday. The symptoms feel somewhat worse, but tolerable. I think I'll get better in a couple days.

There are just SO many things going on right now. I really need to be checkd out by the doc.

Please send good vibes my way guys. If this is benzos, I'll be bummed because I want off all dependency developing drugs.
 
Just got back from the doc. I didn;t even have a chance to be honest with him. I told him I recently detoxed off mdone used vals to ease it, but he barely gave me 5 minutes. I had to keep him from walking out the door 2=3 times. Man, our medical system is fucked. Just like a rotating door because of the insurance companies paying next to nothing.

He said I have an upper respirotory infection, but I still think it's the benzos. He didn't listen to my lungs or a strep test, etc. Sounds to me like he just guessed. He did say my throat was swollen and my lungs/ears were full of mucus. Got a cortisone shot and some amoxicillin.

After the 3 time he walked out, I just gave up on giving him the whole scoop on the benzos. I'll just taper myself. Seems like I feel better today, so maybe the taper is starting to go back to normal.

Tried to go to a friends very good doc, but they wouldn't accept me because of my insurance. Not sure what to say, but I have a long road of tapering ahead. I suppose it could still be the mdone w/ds, but I don;t think so.

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes and such; new laptop and I don't feel like correcting it right now.

Thanks for your help guys and any other suggestions are welcome!
 
Just an update, I have bronchitus. It's going around town and I shared a pipe with some of my friends that developed bronchitus too. I think it just hadn't developed yet, because we weren't sick, but one of the guys my friend lives with has been sick for weeks without seeing a doctor. I really don't like when people do that to themselves and others as most of us don't have the time to lay in bed for a week plus.

I'm pretty sure the w/d thing is from the benzos and still a little from the opiates. 7 years is a long time for your body to get used to something and then stop. I'm doing better now as I think I'm close to figuring out what dose of benzos I need to be able to function without being high and drowsy. Once I do, I will begin to taper after a week or two. It will probably be a long time to do this, probably 6 months or so, so wish me luck! :)
 
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