Help - advice regarding tapering off heroin

[Polo79]

Cheers man appreciate it. Its really hard to over come the cravings and WD feelings etc but it is possible. How often are u on PST? Ever since ive stopepd using smack I have been using codeine, dxm and dihydrocodeine daily since im on holidays. It keeps me from thinking of using smack again. Just thinking of the WDs is enough for me to stop thinking about it. That crap isnt worth it not to mention how much money one could save and so forth. The problem is most of us started off using on pay days or weekends which ended up few times per week then daily etc u know how it is,

Well done sustanon, that's good to hear. Well like I said earlier I have a few naltrexone pills which my dad crushes up and puts into a capsule and administers it. I am goin to take a bit of the crushed powder tomo night. I am sick of trying and failing so this is the last resort before I start work on Monday. My last hit of H was at 2am (sat morning) I'm going to drink plenty of water and sat night, say around 11.30pm I will begin to take the crushed naltrexone powder. I will also pop a Valium and a xannies to sleep... If I do get any.

Pretty disgusted with myself, I had taken a whole wk of annual leave from work to get clean but instead I was still using and not taking the time I had to use it for what I planned. Let's just say if rapid detox happens then it serves me right.

The reason why I'm doing this is cos back last year when I was only using about a point of H I had accidentally swallowed some naltrexone powder as I had left the capsule too long in my mouth and it dissolved. The wd came on bout 20mins later ANSI recall throwing up and having hot cold flushes. This lasted from 7pm to bout 111pm, maybe cos I was only using a bit of opioids buti remember the next morning I tried using some H... I couldn't feel a thing.

 

[DoctorShop]

Well good luck Polo. Glad you have some Valium and Xanax. Try and get some loperamide as well, keeps your bowels together.

 

[opi8]

You should take anything you want to work well before the naltrexone, otherwise you're just going to throw it up. About 15-20 mins after taking the naltrexone, expect to be throwing up while shitting uncontrollably and rolling around the floor sweating, wishing you had a gun to end it all and being in the worst pain you could imagine, multiplied by 10. Good luck.

 

[footscrazy]

Polo79, why exactly are you planning on using naltrexone? Mainly so that you'll be unable to use anything on top of it? If that's the case, it might be just as beneficial to take bupe instead, and at least that way you won't go into withdrawal. I'm sure you know using naltrexone will stop you from getting high for 24 hours or so but will whack you straight into wd's too - from what I understand it won't speed up the wd either, it'll take just as long to recover, but you'll just spend the first couple of days feeling much worse. It just seems like a really painful choice to me and I'm curious why you're planning on doing it that way. Good luck though..

 

[Ashley]

Hey guys, been busy compiling a detox plan last night and this morning to knock my opiate addiction on the head, in the near future. Over the last few months I have been using progressively less and less opioids. I am generally using only for maybe 3-4 days out of every fortnight (14 days), typically the first 3 or 4 days after I get paid and then spending the next 10-11 days in a state of withdrawal. I have decided that it is pretty pointless to be using at all if I only get to have a shot a couple of days out of my pay cycle and spend the rest of the fortnight hanging out. It makes more sense to me, if I am spending that much time crook, then rather than start the withdrawal all over again after I have spent all of my money on heroin, oxycontin or morphine, I may as well tough it out at get a significant amount of clean time under my belt. Every pay day, as soon as I get paid, I use until I run out of money hence why I spend the majority of those 14 days between pays rotten sick. Recently I haven't even been using PST, bupe or codeine to make it easier, as I have no money left to even purchase those alternatives to heroin. So I have just been suffering.

As some of you may know, I recently broke up with my fiancee of 6 years and we both agreed to remain best friends. Despite us still hanging out as friends and still having a very close friendship, she has since run off with some deadbeat methamphetamine dealer and I haven't heard from her in about a month. She promised to let me know before she became involved with another guy and said that she expected me to do the same, clearly I didn't get that courtesy. Whilst I am absolutely heartbroken and in a position where I could easily start chopping into the drugs like a madman to escape the pain, I have decided to make something positive of the situation and try to get my life back together. I used to have a very successful career in the IT industry, which I have worked in for some 10 years, but I haven't worked for around 4 years, since my ex and I became addicted to heroin. I have only just realized the extent of the damage that heroin has caused - I have basically lost everything in my life that meant something to me: my career, my car (which I got $150 for when I sold it for scrap metal, so that we could score a few packets of gear), I have damaged relationships with my family, lost all of my "friends", and lost my best friend and partner particularly but not exclusively due to my drug use.

So, as I mentioned, I have drafted a detox plan and would like everyone's opinion. I refuse to go back onto maintenance, as I have been off daily dosing of buprenorphine for nearly a year now. Though, I occassionally use bupe to keep me well if I cannot score H, I find the withdrawals from codeine far less intense and tolerable, especially with benzos and cannabis on hand.

Here is what I have come up with:

Day 1:
Morning - 192mg codeine phosphate
Evening - 192mg codeine phosphate
TOTAL: 384mg codeine phosphate

Day 2:
Morning - 96mg codeine phosphate
Evening - 96mg codeine phosphate
TOTAL: 192mg codeine phosphate

Day 3:
Morning - 48mg codeine phosphate
Evening - 48mg codeine phosphate
TOTAL: 96mg codeine phosphate

Day 4:
Morning - 24mg codeine phosphate
Evening - 24mg codeine phosphate
TOTAL: 48mg codeine phosphate

Day 5:
Morning - 12mg codeine phosphate
Evening - 12mg codeine phosphate
TOTAL: 24mg codeine phosphate

Day 6:
Morning - 20mg diazepam
Evening - 20mg diazepam
TOTAL: 40mg diazepam

Day 7:
Morning - 15mg diazepam
Evening - 15mg diazepam
TOTAL: 30mg diazepam

Day 8:
Morning - 10mg diazepam
Evening - 10mg diazepam
TOTAL: 20mg diazepam

Day 9:
Morning - 5mg diazepam
Evening - 5mg diazepam
TOTAL: 10mg diazepam

Day 10:
Morning - 2.5mg diazepam
Evening - 2.5mg diazepam
TOTAL: 5mg diazepam

I am also acquiring some alprazolam to assist with the insomnia that most of us, if not all of us, experience when kicking a habit. It's enough to drive you mad. In conjunction with that I intend to pick up some loperamide HCl, as in the past I have found this effective at keeping the diarrhea under control, I have never used huge doses of it (i.e. 100mg), but in the past when I have been in detoxes, 4-8mg worked really well. I have taken clonidine in the past though it always made me really light headed and woozy due to low blood pressure and I found it rather unpleasant. I doubt I will need it with Xanax on hand to assist with sleep. I really would like to get a hold of some Kratom but being illegal in Australia (Schedule 9!) no vendors will ship it to the land down under.

I also intend to stock up on some cannabis, as I find that helps tremendously during withdrawal to negate the boredom and distract from how much slower the clock turns. If anyone can recommend any other useful withdrawal aids (I am aware of the most commonly used ones), that'd be great. Let me know what you all think.

Ash.

 

[Polo79]

When you guys say you take codeine instead of smack, what do u mean? I don't understand, where do u get that from and how do u have it?

The reason why I don't get on the bupe is cos I reckon it's the same as being on smack except u don't feel anything... cos ur really still addicted to it. I rather be clean of anything, so tomorrow I'm going to reduce as much as I can by the end of the wk then Fri night pop a small bit of naltrexzone and hopefully be clean by the start of next wk.

 

[Ashley]

Codeine is available in a variety of preparations OTC in Australia. Namely, Nurofen Plus, Panafen Plus, etc. It is a preparation containing 12.8mg codeine phosphate and 200mg ibuprofen sold in pills. The idea behind separating the codeine involves dissolving said tablets into a 100mL of cold water - as codeine phosphate is and both ibuprofen and paracetamol are extremeley insoluble, after filtering, the resultant liquid is ready to drink and will keep withdrawal at bay for around 4-6 hours. I would suggest you read through the Cold Water Extraction thread for further information.

Good luck, mate.

Ash.

 

[Polo79]

If I was to taper my heroin use what would be the amount to taper down to before jumping off with benzos and xannies? Currently I am using about 3.5g a day, not that I need to use but cos its there, any advice regarding how much one should taper down to before jumping off?

 

[tentram]

i'd recommend getting down to as little as possible. around .1 to .2 would be small enough doses (quality or not) and shouldn't be too harsh as the withdrawal period for heroin isn't too lengthy compared to methadone or buperenorphine.

 

[cassandragemini]

Ash your tapering plan seems pretty sweet, at the end of the day you just have to get stuck in and do it, it doesn't matter so much on what your plan is exactly as long as its not really badly devised and you can stick to your guns. As I'm sure you know. The thing I would personally change is I would stay on the day 1 dose for 3 or 4 days until the worst of the heroin withdrawal is past then taper the codeine from there. That's just me though, if your tolerance for h is really low then your way would probably work just fine, I used to do it my way after using daily for 2 weeks or more. Goodluck bro, i really hope you can achieve what you want and start getting the life you want back, it sounds like you've had a fucken rough few months and I know how hard not just getting but staying clean is, I'll be thinking of you over the next few days. Keep us posted on your progress bud.

And goodluck polo, id personally stay clear of the naltrexone, I think you'll just put yourself through a bunch of unnecessary hurt using it. I think it would be better to just lock yourself away and punch through cold turkey or if you can do a quick taper. Getting away from Melbourne for a week or two could do you a world of good, if you have rellies or friends who live out in the country where you couldn't source smack if you tried it could be good to go stay with them so when you're at your weakest you don't cave in and score. From experience the only times I've successfully gotten clean is when I've had zero access to opiates, I spent 6 months trying to get clean in Melbourne last year and always ended up using at some point in te withdrawal process and fucked it up for myself. Now I've given up on giving up which sounds lame but honestly I'm happier being honest about the fact I'm an addict and rather than trying to force myself to get clean and beating myself up when I fail ive been (mostly) sticking to a using plan that I can manage and afford and have been trying to change certain lifestyle choices that make me want to use in the first place. Like getting back into hobbies I love like skateboarding, playing music and hanging out with friends who are good influences. Down the track I'll hopefully be in a space where opiates aren't as important or as enjoyable as they are now and I'll just grow out of wanting to use them all the time, I don't know how long this could take but I'm in no hurry, I just want to focus on being happy an hopefully the rest will follow. Anyway sorry I went off track there and starting taking about myself again, goodluck polo, seriously think about getting away from Melbourne or anywhere you can use for as long as possible so you can both get clean and have some thinking time about why you use and what you can do to not fall back into old habits. You could even book a cheap flight to nz and stay in a cheap shitty backpackers in a nice little south island town for a month, i doubt you'd ever find smack there and the fresh air and scenery would do you a world of good. That's probably taking it too far but it's food for thought.

 

[Polo79]

Does any one know if someone starts to go through wd would taking a bit of naltrexone speed up the wd? I mean cos I know that when I have taken the naltrexone in the past it made me go thru wd really bad but the next day I could sleep, no a great sleep but a light one. So I was wondering if the nal will speed up the detox process. I guess I will have to taper down this wk n go cold turkey the coming wkend.

 

[footscrazy]

Polo, do you read the responses people have been giving to your questions? Cass and others have put effort into giving you support and responding to your questions - it would be respectful to at least acknowledge that.

Regarding naltrexone, read this thread. Here's a link to a journal article regarding it -

While the severity and duration of withdrawal symptomatology may be moderated by encouraging participants to reduce (or cease) heroin use close to the time of withdrawal, for a substantial proportion of participants in this study, heroin withdrawal by this antagonist-precipitated procedure was neither rapid nor painless.

 

[opi8]

^ Taking away pain medication from legitimate patients is evil.

 

[Polo79]

I have acknowledged everyone's advice here, if it seems if I don't then I apologizes. I believe I even said thanks in one of my posts.

Anyway...an update, still on smack n still nothing. But re-reading the posts in this thread has renewed my spirits again to stop. How is everyone's progress? Ash how are u? Did ur taper plan work?

 

[Ashley]

Good to see you still kicking along Polo. You'll sort it out bro, I have no doubt.

After many attempts, some serious some not, at knocking this habit on the head over the last 6-12 months since I initially got off bupe maintenance and went back to the gear, I've finally decided to go back on maintenance. Somewhat grudgingly as I swore I'd never end up back there. Suboxone specifically. I picked up my first two doses from the chemist today. I'm currently taking 2mg per day under the tongue and after my first dose this morning I don't feel too bad. Hopefully I can level out at 2mg and keep to a low dose. No doubt I'll still have a tickle every now and then, I just don't have to worry about waking up sick every morning, so I can concentrate on finding some work and whatever else I'm supposed to do.

A.

 

[Polo79]

Hey mate that's good that u are on a maintenance prgm and that u have actual plans to get leveled n find a job to keep you occupied. As for me I'm one of those people who can't have a tickle, my tickles are 2-3 times a wk so thats why my attempts are repetitive. But autum is upon us and time is running out for me,it will be way too hard trying in winter, I already feel the cold now at night.
So I have been asked to house sit this labour day wknd so I need to drop by 7g habit which is between two of us.. Down to a low dose and do the rapid detox there. I'm just trying to figure out how much I can reduce down to and how much I can resist using this wk. as currently I have a taste before bed, one after getting up, one at lunch, one after work, one after dinner and the cycle continues.

 

[Polo79]

Hi all, hope everyone is well and enjoying their Easter wkend... Myself, I'm currently at a mates house and going to commence my naltrexone rapid detox. I obviously couldn't do it at home as my parents will find out I'm back on the shit, also my relatives are down from interstate for this Easter break and that's the last thing I want my auntie to see is me climbing walls and screaming in pain like the movie aliens. So I'm hoping I will be somewhat ok to go back to work on Wednesday, but the first thing is to be able to take the step to take the pill. I def won't be popping a whole rivtol naltrexone tablet but was thinking either smash it into powder and taking it bit by bit or crushing it into small little rocks. My last taste is now and I'm planning to pop it tomo morning when I wake up. I was just wanting to know if it's possible to be clean by we'd? And also do u think there is no point waiting til the morning but pop it say around 3am, given the time is 11.45pm.
I know some will say don't do it at all but that is not possible I have to get clean as my dad is going to have a mental breakdown if he finds out I'm on H again so therefore this drastic action.

So overall I just want to hear ppl advice regarding if I should wait til around 9am or 3am? Or even if I should wait til I start to wd and then pop it. I have tried looking for post regarding what would happen if someone begins to wd and their pop the nal, does that speed up the wd process or not. Instead of a wk of feeling totally shithouse it will be over by the next day or so.

 

[opi8]

I doubt you'll be close to well by Wednesday, it still takes a long time to recover even though all the opiods are brutally ripped off your receptors. I'd wait as long as possible, but I'd advise against doing it at all. Maybe get on a maintenance program? I believe it does speed up the withdrawal, but it's not a miracle cure - and some disagree with me on this point too. It's hell on earth, make sure there's no sharp objects, weapons, or a noose handy because you will want to use them on yourself.

 

[Ashley]

Be careful mate, every story I have heard about rapid detox using naltrexone has been disastrous. Unfortunately you can't take a pill to skip withdrawal, how I wish there was one. You're going to get violently ill after taking the naltrexone and you will likely continue to be sick for days afterwards. Every time I have been administered naloxone, it's like getting unstoned a million miles an hour and ending up in chronic withdrawal, much more so than if you just abstained from opiates.

It's hell on earth, make sure there's no sharp objects, weapons, or a noose handy because you will want to use them on yourself.

^ This man speaks the truth.

A.

 

[Polo79]

Yeah I am planning to takea bit at a time and I've done it before but that was an accident so I know what I'm in for. But there was a time I only took a tiny bitbut it wasn't as bad as the other times