Hedonism

[figure11]

Is there anything inertly wrong with being hedonistic? Is consistently chasing pleasure a shallow way to live? Why or why not?

 

[Foreigner]

Probably in the natural world, following the route of pleasure was a decent way to survive. Things that tasted or felt good were safe, or part of human purpose.

In the modern world, things that feel good could kill you. Take food for example. "Food-like products" and super sweet things taste good but may be damaging the body.

 

[panic in paradise]

this is a sensitive subject, but in my opinion one of the most important, especially these days with all the man-made chemical options available, and displays/advertisements/inadvertent encouragement of everything from food to sexual indulgences.

"Constant Shallowness Leads to Evil" is the title of an album by the band Coil, and good words to live by.

i could reply this thread with two words allowing whom ever reading to derive what they can for themselves -
- Dahrma>&<Karma -

in my opinion the root of all "evil", what leads to each sin, is an individuals refusal to be their-self, who they were born to be, and how with their unique limitations and capabilities. also, as a believer in reincarnation, much of the reason we are reincarnated, IMO, is because we did not explore but rather resisted temptations, thus returning to this animated existence because of withheld/latent desires unfulfilled: not being who you were born to be by refusing to allow experiences to occur; which is in great part what creates our individuality, and wisdom by learning from those experiences.

BUT and IF those pleasure vices are abused to feel more able to be yourself, along your dahmric path, the results are negative karma gained in many ways such as being selfish and harming others. referring to reincarnation again, as opposed to lack of experience, the soul will return to the animated to be able without the crutch of vices. i like how the story of Adam and Eve explains this scenario.

there is so much we refuse to acknowledge about ourselves that it can be heartbreaking to watch others who have not yet realized the potential of the body mind and soul. for instance, drugs such as opaites/oids, only work because of the chemicals existent in us; bliss or sahmadhi, Christ/Krishna/cosmic consciousness may not be available to us all this time around, but for many it has been, risk and monetarily free.

a Native American quote i will paraphrase is 'Son, there are two wolves inside me fighting - which will win father? that depends on which wolf I decide to feed more than the other.'

________
yin and yang - alpha and omega -- yoga

 

[Cruel Intentions]

Is there anything inertly wrong with being hedonistic? Is consistently chasing pleasure a shallow way to live? Why or why not?

I don't think so. Take away drug addiction and the motivation for pleasure other than drugs remains, for me any way.

 

[-=SS=-]

Is there anything inertly wrong with being hedonistic? Is consistently chasing pleasure a shallow way to live? Why or why not?

Nothing wrong with it. It just may not be the most wise decision you might make in your life is all. If at some point in the future you want use your brain and you've blown half of it away because of your hedonism, then you might feel a bit shit.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Hedonism, if done correctly, is very powerful.

The Way of Tao is a certain type of hedonism. If you understand the principles of Tao, you know that the choice between living for the joy of the present, or planning for the future, is based on a false dichotomy. They are not mutually exclusive, because Tao enables a seamless, unconscious cooperation between all beings who are behaving in a purely natural, animal fashion (living here and now).

In the modern world, things that feel good could kill you. Take food for example. "Food-like products" and super sweet things taste good but may be damaging the body.

But, candy and "food-like products" do not actually bring me joy. Yes, there is a sense of sugary sweetness, but this is heavily outweighed by the negative energy that comes from the sense that I am harming my own body.

So, by truly and masterfully living for the sake of joy, I will eat wholesome foods.

 

[Sittingbear]

Textbook Hedonism considers pleasure to be the absence of pain, at least from my understanding of it. So being a Hedonist would not grant you the philosophical higher ground to partake in overindulgence. However, pain from natural origins, such as hunger, lack of sex, lack of sleep, thirst etc should be met head on and rectified. The hedonists (Epicurus more so than anyone else that comes to my mind off the bat) believed that once a man was free of the want of his natural desires he would be free and that that freedom is what allowed for happiness. Mind you this is all recollections from things read in the past.
But in short hedonism is not indulgence for the sake of indulgence. And addiction is generally a bad thing

 

[figure11]

Textbook Hedonism considers pleasure to be the absence of pain, at least from my understanding of it. So being a Hedonist would not grant you the philosophical higher ground to partake in overindulgence. However, pain from natural origins, such as hunger, lack of sex, lack of sleep, thirst etc should be met head on and rectified. The hedonists (Epicurus more so than anyone else that comes to my mind off the bat) believed that once a man was free of the want of his natural desires he would be free and that that freedom is what allowed for happiness. Mind you this is all recollections from things read in the past.
But in short hedonism is not indulgence for the sake of indulgence. And addiction is generally a bad thing

And overindulgence often leads to pain! Contradictions abound!

 

[Foreigner]

Hedonism, if done correctly, is very powerful.

The Way of Tao is a certain type of hedonism. If you understand the principles of Tao, you know that the choice between living for the joy of the present, or planning for the future, is based on a false dichotomy. They are not mutually exclusive, because Tao enables a seamless, unconscious cooperation between all beings who are behaving in a purely natural, animal fashion (living here and now).

I have to disagree a bit with this description of Daoism. They are for sure about living in the moment but certain acts of pleasure are viewed as depleting, such as an excessive sexual lifestyle and spilling essence routinely. They may feel good but they shorten lifespan.

Daoism is about refinement of spiritual essence to experience bliss. Pleasure is not the same as bliss, and that is what actually distances Daoism from Hedonism. Hedonism is about following the pleasurable route, asserting that pleasure yields what is ultimately good in life, and therefore that should be the aim.

In the Qi Gong aspects of Daoism, pleasure and bliss can occur simultaneously, but only after periods of proper conservation, concentration, and channeling of energies. For example, learning to experience orgasm without ejaculation would be a trait of Daoism, whereas routine ejaculation, while pleasurable, is deemed wasteful and harmful.

But, candy and "food-like products" do not actually bring me joy. Yes, there is a sense of sugary sweetness, but this is heavily outweighed by the negative energy that comes from the sense that I am harming my own body.

So, by truly and masterfully living for the sake of joy, I will eat wholesome foods.

Hedonism is not necessarily about joy, but feeling good. Joy feels good, but not all acts of feeling good involve joy. There's plenty of modern evidence that addresses this when it comes to the endorphins of pleasurable acts. But what about addicts? They feel good when they get their hit, but is there always joy, or simply relief? Hedonism aligns itself with the paradigm of suffering, since pleasure is its opposite. Daoism pursues bliss, which lies outside of this duality.

My example of candy had more to do with the fact that the modern world has harnessed human pleasure and used it to manipulate, whether it's good for you or not. They have it down to a science. They could basically find a piece of rotting garbage and reconstitute its flavor molecules so that you think you're eating a gormet meal, and you wouldn't know the difference until it was too late. That's why I think pleasure, as an ideal, is highly illusory. "If it feels good, do it" is a base level common denominator that I don't 100% rely on. Sometimes something feels good but my heart is telling me that it should not continue.

Modern satanists have hedonism as one of their 10 virtues, but all the satanists I've met seem like selfish, depraved brats. Can one becomed enlightened by taking the hedonistic route? I really question that. I guess anything's possible, but hedonism seems distinctly like the left-handed path and I'm not into that.

 

[thujone]

I guess it really comes down to your accepted definition of pleasure. Seems fairly paradoxical to consider drug [or high-fructose corn syrup] abuse a hedonistic pursuit knowing that it leads to suffering eventually. I consider myself a believer in the Epicurean school of thought, using knowledge and certain restraint to try and maximize my pleasure over the course of my life. Sure, I engage in plenty of "shallow" activities but I think those are necessary to create a healthy contrast against "deep" pursuits. I think hedonism is actually necessary because if you don't pursue your passions then you run the risk of living a shallow life even if you are constantly engaged in pursuits others would see as deep from their point of view. If, however, your life is about doing work you find pleasurable then it's likely you will find ways to transcend plateaus that limits passionless individuals trying to compete in the same field.

 

[scraphead]

Maybe this is too simplistic but sticking to the middle path as general rule, is safe & comfortable. But you don't know where to find the middle path until you've lived on the edge.

 

[Maya]

Maybe this is too simplistic but sticking to the middle path as general rule, is safe & comfortable. But you don't know where to find the middle path until you've lived on the edge.

Agreed +1

Whenever I hear the word Hedonism it always reminds me of Dorian Gray

 

[RobotRipping]

take a look at some 19th-20th century literature for ideas on hedonism and why people generally end up not feeling so great about living that life.

There's nothing wrong with it in itself, but plenty of people feel unsatisfied by being hedonists after long periods of time. I think struggle, suffering, hard work, not enjoying yourself are the greatest motivators to accomplish great things. If you always feel great or good then you're probably not going to change anything.

 

[scraphead]

"If you always feel great or good then you're probably not going to change anything. "

Bearing in mind the original question maybe hedonism or something leading to it, is in part the motivator for achievement ie it's the prize.

 

[Maya]

"If you always feel great or good then you're probably not going to change anything. "

Exactly! Living a hedonistic life brings an amazing feeling and majority of people are who are living this way does not think of the consequences unless hit by a problem caused by a hedonistic approach (was guilty of this).

 

[RobotRipping]

Hemingway wrote a lot about such things and issues with hedonism if you're interested in seeing some different views on it. That's where i get mine from. Through struggling, suffering, we change and adapt and take part in life, changing ourselves and the environemtn/world/universe around us. I see that as the point of existence. Hedonism may be the end goal but i always ask myself, what's after hedonism?

 

[L2R]

pleasure has tolerance like any chemical. if you are only pursuing highs, you end up doing shit you never would have to begin with as you become desensitised to the familiar. how the hell do you think guys get into autoerotic asphyxiation? it doesn't happen overnight. the pursuit of pleasure can make you accutely aware of its absense, so you get LESS satisfaction overall.

simple, meaningful and substantial pleasures is where it is at. sure it may not be as high, but it is far longer lasting. overall, you are more pleased.

I guess it really comes down to your accepted definition of pleasure. Seems fairly paradoxical to consider drug [or high-fructose corn syrup] abuse a hedonistic pursuit knowing that it leads to suffering eventually. I consider myself a believer in the Epicurean school of thought, using knowledge and certain restraint to try and maximize my pleasure over the course of my life. Sure, I engage in plenty of "shallow" activities but I think those are necessary to create a healthy contrast against "deep" pursuits. I think hedonism is actually necessary because if you don't pursue your passions then you run the risk of living a shallow life even if you are constantly engaged in pursuits others would see as deep from their point of view. If, however, your life is about doing work you find pleasurable then it's likely you will find ways to transcend plateaus that limits passionless individuals trying to compete in the same field.

beat me to it. epicurus ftw.

 

[deejah]

Great question and some good replies here!
As i get older some things get a bit more clear.
I recently posted a similar question, is there more to life than seeking pleasure and avoiding pain and discomfort?
Seeking pleasure and fun is great but it will only go so far, get me so far in life, stunted and immature.
Pleasure seeking simply leads to more pleasure seeking.
There is an empty pit inside i can never fill completely.
Serving yourself has a limit and repercussions, while serving others, catering to their happiness, is a boundless ocean of love.
This is not a quick or easy life change to make, but i can think of nothing better or more noble.
Can you?

 

[DOB]

hedonism is in my opinion the point of whole existance.. hedonism is good,problem is that most people are idiots these days ( dunno maybe they were before too ) and their hedonism sucks

listening justin or nicki on ipod living yolo life = bad hedonism

tripping alone in middle of midnight forest = good hedonism

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

There's something wrong with saying that something's wrong.