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Has Dr Shulgin killed 100 British teenagers?

First Bad Comedown said:
What an unbelievable article.
I may be one of the most outspoken opponents of MDMA on BL, and even I found this to be ridiculous.
But the analogy about peanuts doesn't quite hold up.
Although the production of peanut butter required human intervention, the peanut is a creation of nature.
MDMA, a synthetic compound and amphetamine, is NOT.
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To be fair, I think it's not really fair to judge the impact of something by the degree to which it is creation of nature vs creation of humanity. The vast majority of development in human society are based on discoveries that required a significant amount of human "intervention". And I am not talking only about scientific discoveries.
 
First Bad Comedown said:
What an unbelievable article.
I may be one of the most outspoken opponents of MDMA on BL, and even I found this to be ridiculous.
But the analogy about peanuts doesn't quite hold up.
Although the production of peanut butter required human intervention, the peanut is a creation of nature.
MDMA, a synthetic compound and amphetamine, is NOT.
Click to expand...

The very conception of holding synthetic vs. natural in juxtaposition is fallacious, because human beings are a product of nature and therefore by extension so are the technologies we create. I mean, you wouldn't say "honey isn't natural because bees have to synthesize it...", so why is it so common to hear that same notion applied to people and their creations? I think the entire notion underlying this fallacious line of reasoning is a product of the chemophobic undercurrent inherent to modern industrialized society, particularly in America where the educational system does a poor job of teaching children about the natural sciences.

But it doesn't even matter because the primary precursor to MDMA (piperonal) is an essential oil found in Piper nigrum -- the common black pepper found in your kitchen. So even if you insist on applying the fallacious synthetic vs. natural distinction, MDMA would still be considered a "semi synthetic" or "partially natural" product.
 
Its funny Leah Betts death wasn't even caused by ecstasy. She died from water intoxication and hyponatremia.

So an even better analogy would be how many people have Evian and Aquafina killed.
 
Gotta love the Media. Typical sensationalized article. I'm actually no friend of MDMA, but the work Dr. Shulgin has done for us psychonauts regarding other compounds cannot be measured in money.

It is also unforgivable that Dr Shulgin appears to accept no responsibility and shows no remorse for the loss of life that his experiments in a California laboratory 35 years ago have led to in British homes up and down the country.
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This is beyond absurd. It's like keeping the manufacturer of a car responsible for people dying in car crashes.

Lovely that they also consider PIHKAL "sick": The name PiHKAL is a sick acronym for Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved.
 
No.

Those people were killed by choosing to/not taking safe use protocols when taking such substances. Alexander Shulgin created them for scientific reasons, they were to be used within limited circles for research into receptor activity and as possible therapeutic tools for psychiatric conditions. They got leaked from the lab (well the synthesis methods were anyway) and were mass produced. Alexander Shulgin I believe, never intended for this to happen. I believe his conscience should be completely clear on this front. I also believe all of Shulgin's work was for the greater good, and this is the unintended consequences as a result of a chain of occurrences which were ultimately out of his hands.

Its like saying that the scientists who discovered nuclear fission/fusion are responsible for the Hiroshima/Nagasaki deaths, which whilst ultimately if these things were never discovered, these nuclear bombings would not have occurred (though is possible something equally as unpleasant may well have occurred at the same time/place, say a biological/chemical attack), it is a hell of a stretch to hold them responsible.

I really don't understand how the media can possibly be allowed to get away with this crap. Demonising one of the greatest scientists in the world because of what is ultimately the end result of a long chain of events outside of his control. The media pisses me off no end - they really do need reigning in sometimes.

EDITED TO ADD: I thought the poster above was joking about the PIHKAL being a sick acronym - sadly he was right. What a joke of an article. Perhaps not surprising comments are closed, when such an inflammatory piece is written like that, I guess the comments went mental... ...and the fu**ing Daily Mail couldn't deal with the torrent of negative comments decrying it. Like anything, yes ecstasy can be dangerous, but then so can anything. I fu**ing despair of out media, I really do.
 
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Lets charge him with manslaughter! How bout Bayer who created Heroin? Lets sue them for every death they caused with their PATENTED product!

Pihkal is "sick"...wow. Takes a really closed mind to say something like that. They must have no idea what the book is even intended for, how it was written, or anything of the sort. Why is it sick? Because it has synthesis information? Because two people dared to venture into unexplored territory, when the govt would only do this via something like MKULTRA, or dosing a french village. but thats not "sick".
 
On the synthetic/natural opposition a line from Mr Pratchett always springs to my lips in response

"opposed to unnatural things? What you eat meat raw and sleep in a tree"?
 
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I'm too drunk to read this shit right now. And just when I thought I was starting to respect the UK's sensical rule of law. I keep forgetting that the US only won the Revolutionary War. A revolution my nutsack.
 
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