Has anyone gotten off of long term suboxone by using DOC again?

[chelle216]

Here goes...
So, background-
I spent two years living with a terrible addiction to heroin (IV) some 12 years ago. During this time I had used suboxone and found that it was a terrible drug to withdrawal from even after 2 months of use, which led me right back into my addiction. My life started to turn around when I finally accepted that I needed methadone. I spent four years, and I found that it was relatively easy to get off of if tapered correctly. I then spent about 1.5-2 years clean from all opiates, but I later wound up stumbling head first back into use when I got curious as to the hype that was made out of perc 30's. Within three months I was battling with an all out addiction to railing the pills and swallowing halved 80mg morphine pills to go with.
A very significant person in my life chose to willingly help me out of the mess with suboxone, however, I wound up staying on it longer than anticipated, and I ended up with my own legal prescription.

Today- I've now been on sub for about a total of close to 4yrs, and although I've tapered down from between 6-4mgs a day to 0.5mgs a day, the everyday drenching sweats (to the point that I now have an ongoing fluconazole script to battle fungal infections), intrusive racing thoughts, loss of motivation and severe "I don't know who I am" depression is taking a toll on my life. I decided about 2.5 weeks ago on a whim to use heroin (insuffalated and done as bumps throughout the day, so as not to actually get high) for two weeks to try to reset the system and then do a short (4day-7day) sub taper. (2.5mg-2mg-1mg-0.5mg---) Today is day four, I plan to stop the subs tomorrow and see how things pan out. The sweats and racing thoughts have been much less since, though they're still there to some extent, and while I'm optimistic, a bit of me thinks it's part due to the subs half life.

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this? Also, whether it helped for them or someone they know in actually jumping and remaining free of subs in a more comfortable manner.

 

[shagoo1237]

Hey, i really hope everything works out for you. Im currently in the same boat as you much lesser drug history tho. I started taking perks ( never crazy out of control 40mg a day tops usually 20 tho) because of an injury. That led to getting hooked didnt want to get off then went to subs. Started them 4mg a day for about 2 years i got off them for a month after tapering to 1 mg per day then perks for 15 days. I eventually jumped back on perks cause shoulder in my mind wasnt "right" guess i was just using it as a crutch to use... eventually i somehow got to where i was taking 10-14 mg per day of suboxone for the last 2.5 years. I woke up one day and everything just clicked what they cost me a 7 year relationship, happiness, friends, my work ethic suffered i was miserable and hated myself and life. I was sick of being overwhelmed by what if I can't find them. You know the drill im sure, i wanted out so bad but didnt even stop to think what happened to me how did I get here. I knew such a high dose would be tough and i was so frazzled because in that moment of clarity i didnt really want to stay on them anymore at all let alone another 5 months to go through a taper. I couldnt see how i was going to taper off as it would take me putting in a piece when 1st woke up then immediately after that disolved then immediately after that dissolved to feel anything resembling relief. ( idk why that was happening but it was no matter the dose 12mg 8mg 6mg or 4mg so i usually went 4mg and was at 9mg already before I even got my day started basically, which i hated and couldnt figure out why it was happening. Then by some odd miracle I got a toothache in the middle of my worst mental of times worrying about suboxone and fearing id never get off. subs were only hurting the tooth more causing more pain or if it wasnt hurting at that point it flared it up. I grabbed perks for that week leading up till when i could get into seeing the dentist, and after the week i just wanted to be done with everything and figured 1 week down lets see how far i can go. There may be 3 ppl in world who kno i was taking them the whole time all dealers. I just was never like this i turned away from childhood and highschool friends when they got into drugs i was never that person, i wanted to go back to my old self. Not what has been for the last 5.5 years. I am 39 days off them right now. I went from 12mg subs on a monday to perks that Tuesday and havent gone back. For the first 2 or 3 weeks i will admit i was taking much more perks then i wanted to. For the last 3 weeks i have been taking a little bit lower of does 25 30 mg a day. The subs ruined my tolerance i used to only need a 10 to get a nice buzz. I still am feeling the wd in the mornings it is rough if i dont take anything right away still i kind of winged this whole process as im going i have an end game in mind with how i want this to go so i will see. I am planning on getting down to 10 mg of perks per day and would like to stay there for a month before going back onto subs for 5 days. Sorry to ramble just thought id share what im doing dont know if it can help or not but figure it cant hurt. As to your story everyone i know who has gotten off subs has gone the route i am with the perks ( id say 12 people i know who went this route, just picked their brain without leading onto them that i needed to know for me.) I have never done heroine, i know that is very dangerous tho to have a grasp on. All my friends growing up have said they cant or wont ever touch a perk again bc they see how much better heroine is. But i have seen people i care about what that did to them, i think its a dangerous game your going to try playing, but i imagine you feel how desperate I do to be normal again. So who the f uck am i to tell you what to do. Early in this process i was using perks to get high, after a few weeks u felt much better but i am now using to just try cheating the withdrawl. I have been getting 20s and splitting into 2 and try taking them as far apart as i can. If you could that is my advice to you. Jump over to perks it may not get you high now or anything and you may experience little symptoms throughout your day ( i still do, still have the body aches, my head feels like head cold, and have minor diarrhea. But i cant complain about that after going to bathroom 1x every 4-6 weeks for the past 3 years i am welcoming that part ha.) Stay strong and try to keep everything in prospective in your head of where you want to be at in 6 months and dont lose sight of that. That has been keeping me going and for the first time in a very long time i am actually excited about my future.. i really wish you all the best and if there is anything I can do for you send me a message and ill try to help as best as i can. But i just feel like you may be better off taking perks but regardless it can be done I've did it before and am in process of doing it again. Dont let anyone tell you any different of how it is a vicious cycle ( it is) and you'll always need one or the other. That's up to you and how bad you truly want this. I've noticed such a dramatic shift in my overall health in the last 3 weeks or so. Ive lost 16lbs, started exercising again, am not falling asleep everywhere i go no more. However last friday i forgot my 20 to bring to work with me and was on nothing for that 10hr stretch and my day was hell on earth, which led me to see I'm not out of woods yet but hopefully it won't last much longer. Goodluck to you wish you nothing but the best and be careful and smart. You can do this unfortunately the sub withdrawl you will hear a different story from everyone some the worst is over in a week some can last like damn near 8 months jumping at .5 fortunately you maybe on the shorter side of the physical part thats how the 1st time was for me it was mainly mental after i was sober for that next month. I went off the handle and jumped at crazy high dose so this time I know im going to be more on the 3 months of hell side but im ready for it. Just try to keep reminding your self of your goals even if its just to make it through the day without using and hoping that tomorrow will be better, or longterm goal what im trying to use. Set your standards high expect and want better for yourself and i promise you you will start to see improvements soon. Best of luck,
sg

 

[Raysu]

I was a heavy user pills/meth/coke/bath salt. Before going into rehab I had cut out most of my speed use, had a rapid detox on subs (about a week and a half with dosing every six hours to start). I still felt rough at two weeks clean but then things turned a corner and I wasn't hating life. By six weeks out I was much better. It wasn't easy but it also wasn't as bad as I anticipated especially when wds started on the plane ride there. I think for you the biggest concern would be not being in a program and upping your rec use to compensate. I've always seemed to be blind as casual use graduated into the "wtf happened and where did my paycheck go?". Suboxone and methadone subdue cravings when administered right. How do you plan to keep yourself in check? Do you have a good support system in place?

 

[chelle216]

[MENTION=409538]shagoo1237[/MENTION]
Quite obviously you know the boat I am in and the hell that is subs. I will say,however, in very short term tapers, they can be a miracle.
That said, thank you for your reply. Oh, and *laughs* I totally get what you mean about using the bathroom.
In regards to using percs to get off of this ride, it's unfortunate that they've dried up in my area, and this here was my original idea but because I had been out of the game for so long, everyone I knew had switched over to heroin to abate the rising costs of their own addictions. I would have much preferred the clean and exact dosages of percs over the who-really-knows-what-you're-actually-getting street heroin. So, for lack of options this was the only way to go, and it wasn't altogether easy in terms of getting either. Since people sort of regard me as the first of the group that gotten taken down by heroin some 10yrs before their own addictions surfaced, most are rather protective of and would shield me and any attempts at a foray back into that lifestyle, which I appreciate. For now, only one, possibly two people know what I've done.
I suppose there lies a possibility, due to some spinal abnormalities/fractures, that I could attempt to get a script from my Dr. as he has offered it on occasion before.
As for my tapering, I woke up and found after some time that I had to take 0.5mgs of sub today, but I do feel markedly improved mentally compared with the last few days, it's just the toxic sweating that's my biggest annoyance. I have found that some supplements, such as straight D-phenylalanine (not DL-phenylalanine) seem to help a bit.
Again, thanks for the reply and i'm wishing the best for you as well!! (I'd pm you but still in greenlight status)
[MENTION=405589]Raysu[/MENTION]
I'm glad to hear that rehab worked worked for you, and your short time on subs didn't wind up with you getting hooked and things started looking up within six weeks!
I don't exactly see what I've done as rec use because it wasn't done to get high, I can see where you're coming though as what else could anyone typify two weeks of heroin use as?
As for a program, no, I'm not involved in one, and I have found that many of the programs in my area include crowds who are often looking for further/better connects, as well as people trying to deal/make trades in the parking lot or around the corner. Of course I understand this happens to some extent everywhere, however, there seems to be a high prevalence of it happening in the areas surrounding me.
What's keeping me in check is the fact that I want out of this nightmare so damn bad, and if rehabs knew how to deal with long term suboxone users, I would easily and readily pack my bags. I would also caution anyone against using this for any extended duration (I, though, have myself to thank for going along with the notion that I should be on suboxone for a longer duration due to my history)
Unfortunately, long term sub users and the Drs that prescribe outside of a three month window have essentially made the opiate/drug abusing populace, often regarded as trash, true Guinea pigs. Because the FDA fast tracked this drug (despite there having already been another, better studied alternative available-Talwin) There exists 1 six month study amongst a handful of three month studies and that's it! Therefore, no one has sufficiently studied the long term effects to know how to even guide doctors on how to effectively manage the symptoms of extended withdrawal from this drug as they simply do believe they exist according to the literature they've been fed. It's unfortunate that it's been up to the patients to find this out by trial and error. Drs just attend a weekend seminar to get certified in prescribing this, and go on to charge exorbitant office fees for printing out a script and signing it. I'm actually infuriated that they're now possibly optioning bupe as a drug for treatment resistant depression, because what's the most prescribed category of drug in America ? -antidepressants.
Sorry for the rant, but I clearly have a hatred for this med and all the times I knew better at this point, and that's what keeps me in line.

 

[SubPAWS]

Chelle216,

I am 2 months off subs. I was on them for over 7 years, but I did not use any opiates to help me in the process. I did keep dropping my dose but cutting it in half every other day until I felt comfortable, then staying them for 1-2 weeks before going to the lower dose every day until I felt comfortable again, then staying at that dose for 1-2 weeks. When I got down to .5mg per day, I stayed there for 2 months before doing a 1 week taper that is outlined on;

http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/taper

I'm not going to lie and say the wd was easy. Those first couple of weeks were one of the worst things I've gone thru, but I already suffer with anxiety, panic attacks, and mild depression, which may have contributed to my acute wd symptoms. Regardless of the suffering, I would do it all over again the exact same way. I'm feeling better than I have in a very long time. I'm still having sleep issues, and can feel quite fatigued some days, but those things get better with every passing day. I started using an elliptical 3-4 days a week about a month ago, and the endorphins have done wonders to naturally replace the chemicals my brain has been dependent on for the last 17 years. So I highly recommend some kind of exercise once your acute wd symptoms subside.

I'm not here to judge. You have to do what works for you. I just wanted to let you know that it is possible to get off the subs without using opiates. At least it was for me. I had to keep reminding myself that I wouldn't feel that way forever, there was an end coming. When it got so bad I felt like I couldn't take another second of it, I had to keep telling myself I NEVER wanted to go thru that again, that giving up only meant all the days I'd endured would have been for nothing bc I would have had to start all over again somewhere down the road if I did.

Whatever way you do it, you're taking back control of your life and I applaud that wholeheartedly.

 

[xiyou]

get someone to lock you in a room with a bucket tv and a food supply

 

[Kittycat5]

Xiyou, stop trolling everywhere.