The True Jesus Christ
Bluelighter
I hear that PCP is the one of the worst dissociatives, but I am just wondering if anyone has any experience with it, and if so how was it?
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Has anyone ever tried PCP?
- Thread starter The True Jesus Christ
- Start date
Ketamike
Bluelighter
me and a couple friends smoked Dust {PCP} for the first time about a month ago... do a search for 'dust' in the Trip Reports section
partykid_lsd
Bluelighter
pcp is next on my list of drugs to try. If i ever find it
wickedclown_stl
Bluelighter
Upper Andy
Bluelighter
oddly enough. i smoked some last night. itz injoyable, but expensive, and not long lasting. make sure you get the real stuff. Im not to fond of it cause of itz price, but mah grrl got a dippie, and gave most of it to me.
Formaldehyde IS NOT PCP OR DUST!
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"in the states, the maximum penalty for attempting to build a nuclear device is like 10 years; for trying to make methamphetamine, it's 30. it's easily possible to serve less time for rape or murder than for making crystal. "
Formaldehyde IS NOT PCP OR DUST!
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"in the states, the maximum penalty for attempting to build a nuclear device is like 10 years; for trying to make methamphetamine, it's 30. it's easily possible to serve less time for rape or murder than for making crystal. "
I once smoked a joint that was dusted,... the shitty part is that I didn't know it was. Try driving while that fucked up (before you start tweaking about driving while under the influence, I drive just fine stoned thank you very much),... I was lucky I made it home. Also I didn't know what I was saying until I heard it come out of my mouth. Now THAT is a strange feeling...
pun*is*rollin
Bluelighter
ummm... me and my friends got a gm. of k one time. it was cut with pcp. whoa! what a fucked up feeling. i k-holed ok i guess. but it felt like there was ooze coming out o my ears. i was fucked. my freind that tied it almost died. he puked alot. rave on. peace
henry
henry
B
blufluffybunny
Guest
You know the problem with PCP. It may seem nice one minute, then send you completely mental.
Someone could tell you to stab your friends in the face with a screwdriver and you will more than likely find it a bloody good idea (at the time) and set about doing it. K makes you loose touch with reality, but PCP throws it right our the fucking window! YES, YES...you have tried it, it was nice etc. etc. Do enough of it in one go then go play hide and seek on the freeway....cause if I told you to, you would!
Enjoy.
Someone could tell you to stab your friends in the face with a screwdriver and you will more than likely find it a bloody good idea (at the time) and set about doing it. K makes you loose touch with reality, but PCP throws it right our the fucking window! YES, YES...you have tried it, it was nice etc. etc. Do enough of it in one go then go play hide and seek on the freeway....cause if I told you to, you would!
Enjoy.
PhreeX
Bluelight Crew
How do you know ketamine was cut with PCP? This isn't really practical, as the idea behind a cut is to *lessen* the cost of drugs - no, people don't cut one drug with another potent drug.. and how did your friend almost die? I mean, I guess you could say "almost died" if he was in the hospital ER on life support, but a bad trip does NOT mean he "almost died" ..
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PACK.MY.BEAK
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PACK.MY.BEAK
One of my favorite drugs........ =) ..It makes you very anti-social , feel like your god.............Totally true Andy, Formaldehyde IS NOT PCP OR DUST!!!!! Due to popular belief... Its cutt with it (well dipps) but its not .....I can't go to a party and not smoke none =(
Murdoc
Bluelighter
totally hear what your saying PhreeX, alot of people have this notion that drugs get cut just for the heck of it, few actually question why a drug is cut with something. I guess when people have a bad trip they just assume it must have been cut with a more powerfull/expensive drug, i guess it gives them a scapegoat for there bad experience.
theres a ton of PCP available on the streets where I live. I spent a whole summer snorting that shit up every other day. It basically makes you feel like you're walking on clouds, you pretty much glide everywhere, everything seems fake (i.e. ketamine/dissociative).
Its intense but you do feel like shit/dirty in the morning.
I've had some more fucked up highs on PCP then on many other drugs. Its fun at first but like everything else I seem to do, it gets boring after a while.
Its intense but you do feel like shit/dirty in the morning.
I've had some more fucked up highs on PCP then on many other drugs. Its fun at first but like everything else I seem to do, it gets boring after a while.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
PCP... Well, if there is a drug out there with a truly ugly stigma that precedes it, PCP is it!
PCP is on the top of the list of drugs I WILL NOT do, and mind you, this is a short list.
PCP has the highest degree of neurotoxicity of any of the discociatives... beating out DXM, nitrous and Ketamine. IT is also a very unpredictable high. I know many stories about people who has lost there minds whilst on PCP... The drug can render you totally delerious, without the ability to feel pain, and often a perception of superhuman strength. (Think David Banner's wild transformation into the Incredible Hulk - just no green!). Stories of PCPed out criminals taking countless bullets to the chest before falling dead still float around many a police precinct like real life urban legends.
My personal favorite account is of the guy who went berzerk and managed to squat down, wrap his arms around the bottom of a toilet bowl, rip it right out of his bathroom floor then hurl it through a glass window sending it plummeting 12 floors to the pavement below.
Hey, it's just not my idea of a fun weekend.
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"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
PCP is on the top of the list of drugs I WILL NOT do, and mind you, this is a short list.
PCP has the highest degree of neurotoxicity of any of the discociatives... beating out DXM, nitrous and Ketamine. IT is also a very unpredictable high. I know many stories about people who has lost there minds whilst on PCP... The drug can render you totally delerious, without the ability to feel pain, and often a perception of superhuman strength. (Think David Banner's wild transformation into the Incredible Hulk - just no green!). Stories of PCPed out criminals taking countless bullets to the chest before falling dead still float around many a police precinct like real life urban legends.
My personal favorite account is of the guy who went berzerk and managed to squat down, wrap his arms around the bottom of a toilet bowl, rip it right out of his bathroom floor then hurl it through a glass window sending it plummeting 12 floors to the pavement below.
Hey, it's just not my idea of a fun weekend.
------------------
"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
They say the same about meth sebastian_ghost.
but yeah PCP IS fucked up, check www.snopes2.com for the report of the man who ripped off peices of his face and fed them to his dog. Just do a search for PCP. Kinda like in Silence of the lambs 2.
"A photograph found in Practical Homicide Investigation, a book by former New York homicide detective Vernon J. Geberth, purportedly depicts a man who, while high on PCP, sliced off pieces of his face with a broken mirror and fed them to his dogs. (We don't reproduce this picture on this page because it might be a bit too much for the squeamish, but if you have the stomach for it, you can view it here.) "
just do a search for PCP. I never got violent on it, nor did I ever think of doing stupid shit.
but yeah PCP IS fucked up, check www.snopes2.com for the report of the man who ripped off peices of his face and fed them to his dog. Just do a search for PCP. Kinda like in Silence of the lambs 2.
"A photograph found in Practical Homicide Investigation, a book by former New York homicide detective Vernon J. Geberth, purportedly depicts a man who, while high on PCP, sliced off pieces of his face with a broken mirror and fed them to his dogs. (We don't reproduce this picture on this page because it might be a bit too much for the squeamish, but if you have the stomach for it, you can view it here.) "
just do a search for PCP. I never got violent on it, nor did I ever think of doing stupid shit.
Ketamine has NO proven neurotoxicity. It can affect rats but for several reasons this does not translate to damage in primate brains. K has been injected directly into the brain of primates for months on end and caused no damage whatsoever.
AciD KaT
Bluelighter
Yes.
go here and read about me and friend's experience. I LOVE dust...anything that makes me loose total control over my mind and actions I think is fucking amazing. But be warned....
Most people I know do NOT like the fact they are totally taken away from their mind. I'm just a crazy freak.
But I'm all for saying everyone needs to at least try it once.
go here and read about me and friend's experience...
http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000355.html
go here and read about me and friend's experience. I LOVE dust...anything that makes me loose total control over my mind and actions I think is fucking amazing. But be warned....
Most people I know do NOT like the fact they are totally taken away from their mind. I'm just a crazy freak.
go here and read about me and friend's experience...
http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000355.html
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Hey Peyote:
First of all re-read my post. I did not specify neurotoxicity in humans. Secondly, and more importantly don't be so quick to argue a drug's supposed "Saftey" profile, when your only argument is that it has not yet been "Proven" to be neurotoxic in humans. It is not good science, nor is it an intelligent approach to the study/use of any neurologically active agent.
What I had typed above was roughly paraphrased from an informative commentary titled: "The Discociative FAQ" which was once available on the Lycaeum (Before its demise - If anyone has a copy of this, or a working link to a new source, I would greatly appreciate it.) This work addressed he legitimate concerns inherent with the use of disociatives as well as giving a fairly balanced summation of what we presently do and do not know about these agents.
True, we have not yet seen Olney's lesions in Humans. However, we have done so in mice, rabbits and a number of other mammals. Have we detected neurotoxicity with Ketamine's closest relatives in humans? Absolutely. PCP, DXM as well as other more obscure chemically related molecules have all demonstrated this. I ask you, is this "Proof" that ketamine is SAFE, and that it DOES NOT posess neurotoxic potential at any does or duration? Let's not jump to embrace a conclusion, and certainly not to the one which we, as people who enjoy the use of discociatives would prefer.
All to often I hear people trying to argue that virtually every illicit drug is "Safe", simply because they have found one little tidbit of info that they can cling onto... I have heard this with E, K, Heroin, Meth, etc. Don't fall into a trap of believing what you want to believe, verses what potentially could be the truth.
As far as the Primate studies which you mentioned briefly, let me cast a bit more light on them. These studies were conducted in part by Dr. Frank Sharp and also by one of Dr. Olney's colleagues, Dr. Nuri Farber. We know little about these studies, simply because they are UNPUBLISHED. We do know that they did not show proof of toxic changes in a group of monkeys up to 10mg/kg when administered intramuscularly. In his own words Dr. Farber concluded: " ...the methods used in the (Ketamine) monkey studies so far are unsatisfactory, because the animals were probably too young". (Bare in mind that the neurotoxic effects seen in rats were seen only in Adult rats) Dr. Sharp himself also refused to give the drug a clean bill of health, as the pharmaceutical company refused to publish their own primate studies, and work on older monkeys was not pursued.
The question of how you choose to quantify "Neurotoxicity" also needs to be addressed. Just because brain tissue might not be directly damaged, doesn't mean there cannot exsist other negative pressures on how the brain functions. There is evidence that the brain may actually be "Rewiring" or "Dewiring" itself through discociative use, and that this may at least be partially responsible for the negative symptoms and memory loss that have been documented.
I am going to provide on last quote from Dr. Karl Jensen M.D., Ph.D. a researcher and clinician who is currently working with MAPS, and is regarded as the one of the world's leading experts on Ketamine. I feel it sums up subject quite nicely:
"The branches and junctions of adult neurons undergo many changes throughout life. This is like a tree growing new buds. N-P receptors are involved in these structural changes ("plasticity"). which could form the basis for some types of long-term memory, and of the brain's attempt to compensate for aging." He goes on to state: "Some persistant memory difficulties after prolonged use of ketamine may be due to a molecular change withing cells. The failure to see, through a microscope, dead cells, damage to areas inside cells, or damaged nerve terminals in drug toxicity studies is NOT necessarily evidence of a lack of persistent change in the "wetware" of the brain."
Fact: THe use of Ketamine has been clinically linked with a wide range of unpleasant mental effects. This list includes: Anxiety, memory loss, panic attacks, post-traumatic stress disorder, persistant perceptual changes, mania, paranoia, delusions of granduer and association.. the list goes on. We might not have the entire ketamine puzzle put together yet, but we do know that its use can and does manifest serious ill neurological effects that should not be downplayed or ignored.
------------------
"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
First of all re-read my post. I did not specify neurotoxicity in humans. Secondly, and more importantly don't be so quick to argue a drug's supposed "Saftey" profile, when your only argument is that it has not yet been "Proven" to be neurotoxic in humans. It is not good science, nor is it an intelligent approach to the study/use of any neurologically active agent.
What I had typed above was roughly paraphrased from an informative commentary titled: "The Discociative FAQ" which was once available on the Lycaeum (Before its demise - If anyone has a copy of this, or a working link to a new source, I would greatly appreciate it.) This work addressed he legitimate concerns inherent with the use of disociatives as well as giving a fairly balanced summation of what we presently do and do not know about these agents.
True, we have not yet seen Olney's lesions in Humans. However, we have done so in mice, rabbits and a number of other mammals. Have we detected neurotoxicity with Ketamine's closest relatives in humans? Absolutely. PCP, DXM as well as other more obscure chemically related molecules have all demonstrated this. I ask you, is this "Proof" that ketamine is SAFE, and that it DOES NOT posess neurotoxic potential at any does or duration? Let's not jump to embrace a conclusion, and certainly not to the one which we, as people who enjoy the use of discociatives would prefer.
All to often I hear people trying to argue that virtually every illicit drug is "Safe", simply because they have found one little tidbit of info that they can cling onto... I have heard this with E, K, Heroin, Meth, etc. Don't fall into a trap of believing what you want to believe, verses what potentially could be the truth.
As far as the Primate studies which you mentioned briefly, let me cast a bit more light on them. These studies were conducted in part by Dr. Frank Sharp and also by one of Dr. Olney's colleagues, Dr. Nuri Farber. We know little about these studies, simply because they are UNPUBLISHED. We do know that they did not show proof of toxic changes in a group of monkeys up to 10mg/kg when administered intramuscularly. In his own words Dr. Farber concluded: " ...the methods used in the (Ketamine) monkey studies so far are unsatisfactory, because the animals were probably too young". (Bare in mind that the neurotoxic effects seen in rats were seen only in Adult rats) Dr. Sharp himself also refused to give the drug a clean bill of health, as the pharmaceutical company refused to publish their own primate studies, and work on older monkeys was not pursued.
The question of how you choose to quantify "Neurotoxicity" also needs to be addressed. Just because brain tissue might not be directly damaged, doesn't mean there cannot exsist other negative pressures on how the brain functions. There is evidence that the brain may actually be "Rewiring" or "Dewiring" itself through discociative use, and that this may at least be partially responsible for the negative symptoms and memory loss that have been documented.
I am going to provide on last quote from Dr. Karl Jensen M.D., Ph.D. a researcher and clinician who is currently working with MAPS, and is regarded as the one of the world's leading experts on Ketamine. I feel it sums up subject quite nicely:
"The branches and junctions of adult neurons undergo many changes throughout life. This is like a tree growing new buds. N-P receptors are involved in these structural changes ("plasticity"). which could form the basis for some types of long-term memory, and of the brain's attempt to compensate for aging." He goes on to state: "Some persistant memory difficulties after prolonged use of ketamine may be due to a molecular change withing cells. The failure to see, through a microscope, dead cells, damage to areas inside cells, or damaged nerve terminals in drug toxicity studies is NOT necessarily evidence of a lack of persistent change in the "wetware" of the brain."
Fact: THe use of Ketamine has been clinically linked with a wide range of unpleasant mental effects. This list includes: Anxiety, memory loss, panic attacks, post-traumatic stress disorder, persistant perceptual changes, mania, paranoia, delusions of granduer and association.. the list goes on. We might not have the entire ketamine puzzle put together yet, but we do know that its use can and does manifest serious ill neurological effects that should not be downplayed or ignored.
------------------
"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
Wow, Sebastian, I thought someone like you would be able to distinguish drug myths and reality.
Although PCP is more toxic than the other dissociatives, that's about the only real accuracy your post had. While on PCP, one is more likely to sit around and drool then rip out toilet seats and commit violent crimes. While there may be some truth to those horror stories, most of them are, like you said, nothing but urban legends, with little or no base in reality.
EDITED: Because I wanted to make it clear I'm talking about your first post. Your second post is very accurate.
-Astian
[This message has been edited by Astian (edited 13 July 2001).]
Although PCP is more toxic than the other dissociatives, that's about the only real accuracy your post had. While on PCP, one is more likely to sit around and drool then rip out toilet seats and commit violent crimes. While there may be some truth to those horror stories, most of them are, like you said, nothing but urban legends, with little or no base in reality.
EDITED: Because I wanted to make it clear I'm talking about your first post. Your second post is very accurate.
-Astian
[This message has been edited by Astian (edited 13 July 2001).]
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Astian, where are the inaccuracies in my post? I mentioned an anectdotal story, and I mentioned PCP's neurotoxicity. There have been incidents with people under the influence of PCP - Fact. I just mentioned one that was particularly entertaining to me, (In the first line of the post I specifically refered to the "PCP Stigma")I did not insinuate that YOU would be compelled to throw a toilet out of a window whilst on PCP... I fail to see why you have decided to determine the incident that I relayed as being false.
My reasons for not desiring to take PCP are based on toxicity and that fact that PCP is actually one of those drugs that does often get cooked up in rusty bathtubs in the ghetto, what with it being both cheap to make and a fairly easy synth. I don't like my drugs dirty. Need I really defend myself here?
------------------
"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
My reasons for not desiring to take PCP are based on toxicity and that fact that PCP is actually one of those drugs that does often get cooked up in rusty bathtubs in the ghetto, what with it being both cheap to make and a fairly easy synth. I don't like my drugs dirty. Need I really defend myself here?
------------------
"I dislike the drug you are using, but I would defend with my life your right to use it."
- Paraphrase on Voltaire
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
- Dr. Johnson
"We do not sense imagination enough to sense what we are missing."
-Jean Toomer
sunEdltye
Ex-Bluelighter
Peyote- To say that using K for months with no damage is probably one of the dumbass things I ever heard. So congrats...cause I've been on the board for a year. I have first hand accounts of K neuraltoxity, so YAH!
Asiant (whatever your name is)- Stop hiding behind what you dont want to hear. SG is throwing out some facts, and just cuz their not what you want to hear you criticize them. If anyone knows K on this board, it's SG. He has more K experiance in a week than I had in my life. So what he says about K is pretty much fucking fact.
Evan
Asiant (whatever your name is)- Stop hiding behind what you dont want to hear. SG is throwing out some facts, and just cuz their not what you want to hear you criticize them. If anyone knows K on this board, it's SG. He has more K experiance in a week than I had in my life. So what he says about K is pretty much fucking fact.
Evan