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Has anyone done studies into shared hallucinations?

Sorry youngjedi but you are pretty deluded with theories that are highly instable at best let alone proven. Contratulations to Strassman on his studies and new documentary but please don't be like those people in it extending some unknown and somewhat unknowable (apart from mystically 'knowable') research territory into something that seems like the most probable and therefore good enough to assume.

You are using those hypotheses and telling them here like it's the truth. Please come off your pedestal and stop disguising implicate accusations of ignorance with the word sir.

I respectfully request that you leave discussion about the topic open and not be like a number of bluelighters who are/were HIGHLY susceptible to fringe science theory and near-conspiration thinking and mostly bothered to inform others that they were the ones who were blind to the truth.

Want to participate nicely? Then back up your wild statements with something to actually support it.

I don't think DMT is like a dream, and I don't buy into the near-death story and the pineal seat of consciousness stuff.

edit: oh I do agree that you can achieve states similar to that of LSD for instance, with meditation but it takes a lot of practice indeed. A week of meditation in a sesshin got me quite on the way and it really did remind me of LSD/DMT.

During sleep/dreams apparently your shorter term memory is played and burned into your long term memory, perhaps lucid dreams are a state where you can access special states of mind but I would say that it resembles dissociatives much more than psychedelics, sorry.
Salvia has a large dissociative component by the way, so the term hallucinogen is indeed not comfortably applied. It is used in literature still, but terms like psychedelic or entheogen are more accurate in general.

I don't like that you formulate sentences like this all the time: 'then this happens to you, then that happens to you'. Why don't you stick to yourself and interpret what YOU experience and what YOU know for yourself. Be modest and speak of your own opinions and not about 'the way it is'.

And I am not going to finish reading that for another reason and yes that is paragraphed interpunction.


Lazyscience said:
^^i cant read posts like that.

anyway, telepathy would suggest the existence of the supernatural which is totally ridiculous.
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I personally don't support the existence of telepathy but to say that it requires the supernatural may be limited. If there is something possible, a phenomenon like that it may use perfectly natural mechanisms though they may be beyond our direct measurement. To say that it is ridiculous maybe goes to far, on the other hand I am completely skeptical towards anything like that not proven.
I guess the only thing I want to remind of though is that some things once considered magic are only science that is not yet understood, to paraphrase a well known quote.
 
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youngjedi said:
You apparently havent read much into the subject! and have definately not had any lucid dreams, or even explored what you can do in dreams once you enter them fully aware. Sorry for your inexperience sir! read up on to open you chakras and you pineal gland sir and how you can have an out of body experience through meditation, and then try it yourself, and then come back and talk some sence. Continue using 10% of your brain sir, no one is trying to convince you otherwise.
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Quit being a twit, that last sentence is not true! (Also, mysticism probably still works without using all the buzz words that you know whoever you are talking to is not on the same terminology!)

I'm totally not trying to discredit what you said all together, youngjedi, I just feel that trying to convince random people off the bat about all the DMT theories shouldn't get too intertwined with what is beyond any of the molecules we can hold.

With Ismene on the whole attributing the role or similarity of DMT to anything. (Not to say it's totally anything but... what the fuck?!)
 
You guys are talking about a "spiritual plant" yet say there is nothing super natural about it? You realize how close minded you sound. Salvia is native to the Sierra Mazateca mountain region of Mexico. Native Mazatecs have used the herb for centuries to induce trances and visions and also for medicine. Salvia use was first documented in 1938 by Jean B. Johnson, who discovered Mazatecs making a tea from the leaves. You think the Mazatecs just randomly said hey i think this plant is going to do something? Using this drug to see cool trippy shit is just plain ignorant, its is spiritual herb letting you get in touch with yourself and God.

As far as to Solipsis, i believe you contradicted yourself in your own statement!


edit: oh I do agree that you can achieve states similar to that of LSD for instance, with meditation but it takes a lot of practice indeed. A week of meditation in a sesshin got me quite on the way and it really did remind me of LSD/DMT"

but you also say

"I don't think DMT is like a dream".

You say you got pretty close to that mind state within a week of practicing meditation, just imagine the mindstate you could reach if you have been practicing it for 4 years.

Same goes for Dreaming, of course your normal dreams are not like a dmt trip. When you smoke dmt you are incucing this effect by force instead of it happening natural like in dreams. Take for example; you scratch a lottery ticket and realize you won $50,000, serotonin is released naturally and you get a very euphoric feeling. However it is not gonna be to the same extent of you taking 3 ecstasy pills and rolling your balls off. You can actually work on meditaton and learn to release serotonin to that same extent however it takes lots of practice and dedication. So back to the point of dreams and Dmt, you say that "dmt is not like a dream". I mean have you actually worked on lucid dreaming? have you learned how to become fully consious in a dream to the point where you can imagine something and it appears right in front of you? if you havent then i suggest you dont try to correct a statement on a subject that you know nothing about, and im sure thats the case or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would recommend reading up on lucid dreaming and experiencing it for yourself, but with how close minded you sound im sure it would take you years to develop and master.
 
youngjedi said:
You guys are talking about a "spiritual plant" yet say there is nothing super natural about it? You realize how close minded you sound.
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I might sound close minded to you, you honestly sound like a nutter (from at least some perspectives, keep in mind how well wrapped this universe is if it really is) even though you are preaching to the PD forum of bluelight.

I won't knock you down for speaking of meditation ( ;) ) or your visions of the dream beyond this general consensus, but check out the relevance of what you are posting to this thread, if you find the right place there are hundreds of yous saying similar things in other threads.

I have a feeling that many traits of the psychedelic experience transcend into other ancient forms of psychedelia, I just don't like seeing others throw away routes to the intangible because of how they see others link it to things that they know of. <3

EDIT:

I did forget to mention that I quoted this to say that entheogens are physically a part of the entire universe with us, I'm not here to prove the universe from the inside out on psychedelic journalists claims (said drugs might help ;) ) of the physical meeting point of just another part of this puzzle that doesn't answer where the hell what we call consciousness really is. (If it is and it's not a facade of matter alone in execution, maybe so if that's how you roll.)
 
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I think the whole splitting up of spiritual/supernatural and physical is wrong to begin with. What is experienced by me and others in meditation and psychedelia some would define as simply natural while others call it spiritual because it relates to our core being, unfortunately that is a vague term and there are different levels where it appears to manifest itself differently.

I never said 'spiritual plant' by the way. Though at the same time I accept that these sort of drugs can 'help us get in touch with ourself' like you say and I think that is a spiritual practice. Don't confuse all these terms, it doesn't mean I suddenly believe in ghosts and I am not saying that I believe there is really a personal spirit that exists before you are born and after you die. I don't care how many people that do believe in a living spirit DO believe that it is immortal.

About advanced lucid dreaming, I am not refuting that but you started off saying that DMT is like dreaming. How many people actually practice lucid dreaming up to the point you describe? You should have pointed that out right away.

Personally I think that much disagreement (though I don't know how much) is caused by misunderstanding from miscommunication. Communication is a two way street but not in every situation both parties are working equally hard on it. I don't mean to pick on you but in all honestly it really feels like you are raising a lot of misunderstanding the way you try to convey things.
Can you see how it can come off preachy and how you mention many things briefly without being really clear about it before jumping to the next thing. I appreciate that you are trying to get a whole message across as soon as you can but it lacks quality. You can't expect to change minds so easily but I guess it's good that you mean to help.

About being open-minded or skeptical: I have been much more open-minded a while ago and not all too healthy... coincedentally I was using acid a whole lot more back then. It sounds like it's all good, 'open-minded', but it's not. In my case it meant that I was way too easily convinced of something being plausible, I wanted to make sense of everything and to connect different levels of theory (like quantum mechanics, psychology, metaphysics, etc) but later on I had to admit that I couldn't. Later I cut back on my acid and it straightened out.
Being skeptical is not the same as being closed-minded in the sense of ignorant. That was a big error I made and I am sorry you don't seem to see that.

Generally a person accepts information ALWAYS if it doesn't contradict any information that is accepted earlier.
That's normal, but don't let yourself be too open-minded to the point of getting gullible. About me: you don't know me or how open-minded I can be to things. But I don't take pride in being open to everything that suits me.
However that may sound there is nothing meant to be personal about this whole debate so I suggest that you take it that way if you are. Just like I take it you are, I am trying to be helpful as well - the way you talk reminds me of how I was and I learned things since then. That doesn't mean all was bad then and everything is right now, that is not what I mean. But take what you can from this, we all deserve to grow don't we?
I should 'reconnect' more by meditation - lucid dreaming that I have naturally every so often but I have not trained no. I am considering it though. Actually thanks for the reminder.
 
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Lol here we go again, another person taking a far-fetched hypothesis as fact. I feel like we go through a cycle on these forums where posts like this come up stating the TRUTH of Strassmans hypothesis
 
Totally there is quite a number of cycles or themes. First time shrooming or LSD, or 'help I took too much ...' and so on and on. Those are the 'seasons' or the 'weather' of PD/BL lol :D . This one is actually interesting to a certain point though. But if I would be fed up to point people to the B&D or index or actually go into stuff again then I would never mod.
 
I'm impressed at your patience and coherence in responding though. I mean it is a really cool idea, DMT being that key. I feel like the universe is unbelievably beautiful enough for spiritual enlightening experiences to be completely natural though.
 
I think what makes it easily confusing is that what would be far more comfortable to say is that neurotransmitters are big keys, THE key sounds just a maniacal as THE answer. They pretty much serve as keys though don't they? In the receptor as keyhole, that analogy is often used. DMT is in many plants like youngjedi is spamming into many threads right now, that much is true... but it seems likely that it is there because it's such a fundamental compound that serves as hormone precursors. Likewise it may serve in us as a neurotransmitter precursor or byproduct and being so universal it is easy to see how it is interpreted as a unifying natural language that it speaks.
DMT is like one of the major master keys or closely resembling it. But much of it can be explained without getting too "spirit molecule" about it, where the leap is made that feels like it is unfit... the leap to say that it's more than incidental.
People seek meaning and this is what helps logical fallacies and some leaps to be made and to exist. That we want them to should not play a role. Sorry if that rains on people's parades but happiness and truth should not be jumbled (nor are they mutually exclusive).
 
I can see why i might of sounded like i was trying to say this is the way it is and thats it, but that was definitely not the case. I meant it as in this is what i personally believe to be right from my personal experience. You can either listen and look into it, or pass it by.

Solipsis, I love your thought of connecting different levels of theory (like quantum mechanics, psychology, metaphysics, etc) i would throw religion in there too! and i think studying all these together one can get a good personal view on things. Well i wouldnt really say religion as i personally dont believe in it and think they were all created to confuse humanity, I think spirituality is the word im looking for.
 
youngjedi said:
I can see why i might of sounded like i was trying to say this is the way it is and thats it, but that was definitely not the case. I meant it as in this is what i personally believe to be right from my personal experience. You can either listen and look into it, or pass it by.

Solipsis, I love your thought of connecting different levels of theory (like quantum mechanics, psychology, metaphysics, etc) i would throw religion in there too! and i think studying all these together one can get a good personal view on things. Well i wouldnt really say religion as i personally dont believe in it and think they were all created to confuse humanity, I think spirituality is the word im looking for.
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Hey that's cool. About the field overlapping though: there are important connections to be made but at the same time it can be a serious fallacy to try to do everything but really succeeding at nothing.
Sometimes it seems like that it the disease of 'new age' or self-proclaimed gurus: an extremely complicated topic is covered dead-on by vague and esoteric terms. The trouble is it can be tough to separate the bullshit that sounds wonderful from the things that are actually sensible.
Just saying it is essential not to swallow what people feed you but chew and taste it first. Hence the value of skepticism. Quality evaluation is honest, don't be paranoid about it interpreting it as a regardless or preconceived 'no'. :)
 
Syd_Barret said:
They're quite imaginary, I assure you.

:P


I dont understand why psychedelic drug users often insist on making a big deal out of their experiences. trying to ascribe deeper meaning to things that don't necessarily contain them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about deeper meanings, finding whatever, etc, mystical experiences if they ariset., etc but.. but when I hear about people telling me how they communicated with their dog or cat wirelessly (sorry, haha I had to use that term here, its too funny)
I just... I'm sorry I don't believe any of it. haha.
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This is a very closed minded statement. How can you say this. Psychedelics expose your self to your self. How is that a deeper meaning that does not exist? It opens your mind to the truth, and what is really going on around you.

Ever sence my use of psychedelic's my life has been driven by synchronicity. Everything is connected in the universe. EVERYTHING. There is no such thing as a coincidence. Psychedelic's basically open your naturally closed mind to this phenomonon.

If you take psychedelic's and dont believe in the deeper meaning, why are you using psychedelic's?
 
on the topic of shared hallucinations:

im pretty sure jear-bear and phil lesh thought they communicated via telepathy while under the influence of lsd...

Idk how this would be possible and I also do not know why they would lie about something like that.

Bottomline: catch furthur on tour this spring ;)
 
Big)Sky said:
This is a very closed minded statement. How can you say this. Psychedelics expose your self to your self. How is that a deeper meaning that does not exist? It opens your mind to the truth, and what is really going on around you.

Ever sence my use of psychedelic's my life has been driven by synchronicity. Everything is connected in the universe. EVERYTHING. There is no such thing as a coincidence. Psychedelic's basically open your naturally closed mind to this phenomonon.

If you take psychedelic's and dont believe in the deeper meaning, why are you using psychedelic's?
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Say what?

I'm saying is that most people dont even know how to use psychedelics.
They are tools.
 
You have no idea what is really going on, where the universe, matter, energy, consciousness actually come from or what they "really" are.

Quantum physicists keep smashing particles smaller and smaller and all they get are just alot of space and structure and nearly non-existent amounts of matter... next level down its always just yet another abstraction, without end. Many now believe that there is just an infinite hall of mirrors down to the infinitely small.

The entire thing you think is "reality" is merely a cartoon constructed inside your mind with very little "truth" to what it is - a house of cards in which everything is in the end based upon one subjective impression or another... even reading a scientific instrument or a computer output is fundamentally just a subjective experience inside someone's mind.

We already know time is illusory and can be slowed and stretched and there is proof this is actually happening not just an abstraction.

The universe is actually speeding up in its expansion not slowing down contrary to ALL theories... they are TOTALLY baffled by this or what it might mean... 98% of mass & energy in the universe is an invisible stuff called Dark Energy / Dark Matter and they have NO idea what that is.

You FEEL so certain you KNOW what your self and the world "really are" but actually this confidence is merely another cartoon illusion generated by your brain that was built by DNA and fed to your consciousness on order to facilitate the survival and propagation of your DNA, for all you know it could all be an immense but internally consistent misrepresentation designed to further the interests of the DNA.

You think you are so smart, Mr. walking monkey, but really, you have no idea what is really going on, where the universe, matter, energy, consciousness actually come from or what they "really" are, or what you are doing here or where you are going.

So quit trying so hard and just love each other already.

NAMASTE-5.gif


Namaste!
 
yeah but none of that reaaaaally matters when you're viewing the world through a practical framework... I mean, are you going to deny the utility of scientific advancement in medicine, transportation, etc, because there's a fundamental unknown involved? Of course there is, that's the basis of skepticism, but it doesn't matter. Probability is just as useful as certainty. Even if you want to postulate that all science is merely descriptive rather than explanatory, or tautological, it's true by observation time and time again.

Certainly, time is an illusion, but that doesn't stop you from looking at your computer's clock every now and then, or setting alarms. ;)

but I do <3 all of you
 
I have no idea what I am really saying, ISMENE, or what I "mean." It just seemed there was an excess of concrete certainty being bandied about that felt stifling, not befitting our psychonautism, that was crying out for a counterbalancing dosage, a little anti-matter as it were, so to speak, as they say, if you get my drift...
 
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