Tryptamines Harmine (MAOIs) & tryptamines

[Listening]

I've been sitting on some harmine and would like to explore combining with different tryptamines. Obviously the combo with DMT is interesting, but what about other tryptamines? Any favorite combos other there? What's it like?

 

[Viraldrome]

I just got some Harmine myself it's like the only harmala alkaloid not banned in Canada. I have lots of DPT/4-ho-met/4aco-dmt/dmt and shrooms, and plan on getting more MPT. I am kinda scared to try dpt or propylhusca.

 

[HOOH]

Only DMT and psilocybin have notable synergies with MAOIs.

I am kinda scared to try dpt or propylhusca.

It wouldn't be any more intense, in fact Harmala alkaloids technically slightly reduce psychedelic effects, since the excess serotonin competes with the receptors. DPT or almost all of the other tryptamines aren't metabolized by MAO anyway

 

[Pfafffed]

Only DMT and psilocybin have notable synergies with MAOIs.

It wouldn't be any more intense, in fact Harmala alkaloids technically slightly reduce psychedelic effects, since the excess serotonin competes with the receptors. DPT or almost all of the other tryptamines aren't metabolized by MAO anyway

I'm pretty sure this isn't right. It's my understanding that MAO-A catalyzes the oxidative deamination of not just DMT and psilocybin, but also tryptamine, serotonin, and all psychedelic tryptamines. Have you come across some literature that tells a different story?

There's a multi-decade history of combining reversible inhibitors of MAO (RIMAs) with psychedelics, particularly with the tryptamine class. It generally increases their potency substantially in most accounts. I've read 2-4x. It's often reported to change the character or flavor of the experience (commonly said to make them 'earthier' and less recreational, whatever that means.) Side effects can be worse, especially nausea. I haven't read any reports of their being dangerous interactions with base tryptamines or 4-substituted tryptamines, but combinations with 5-MeO-DMT have sometimes been reported to be life threatening. The same is true for aMT, so I'd recommend caution with and 5—substituted tryptamine.

I've read reports of combining harmine and harmaline with 4-HO-MET favorably. I think there's a "vegetable television" titled report on Erowid. I've been interested in combining with N, N-MET, but I don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

 

[Pfafffed]

MAPS - Volume 4 Number 2 - Tryptamines, Beta-carbolines and You

 

[HOOH]

It's my understanding that MAO-A catalyzes the oxidative deamination of not just DMT and psilocybin, but also tryptamine, serotonin, and all psychedelic tryptamines.

Yes, I meant that the tryptamines which are used are not metabolized by MAO, since they have longer N-carbon chains. And exactly this prevention of metabolization of serotonin causes (technically) weakened effects. I'd be very surprised if 4-HO-MET was metabolized by MAO

 

[dosram]

I'm pretty sure this isn't right. It's my understanding that MAO-A catalyzes the oxidative deamination of not just DMT and psilocybin, but also tryptamine, serotonin, and all psychedelic tryptamines. Have you come across some literature that tells a different story?

There's a multi-decade history of combining reversible inhibitors of MAO (RIMAs) with psychedelics, particularly with the tryptamine class. It generally increases their potency substantially in most accounts. I've read 2-4x. It's often reported to change the character or flavor of the experience (commonly said to make them 'earthier' and less recreational, whatever that means.) Side effects can be worse, especially nausea. I haven't read any reports of their being dangerous interactions with base tryptamines or 4-substituted tryptamines, but combinations with 5-MeO-DMT have sometimes been reported to be life threatening. The same is true for aMT, so I'd recommend caution with and 5—substituted tryptamine.

I've read reports of combining harmine and harmaline with 4-HO-MET favorably. I think there's a "vegetable television" titled report on Erowid. I've been interested in combining with N, N-MET, but I don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

Hi there, I recently acquired some SoulCybin which is about 0.25 g psilocybin and 0.45 g RIMA (Syrian Rue) per dose. If you have any experience taking a combination of psilocybin with a RIMA, would you share any insights you have? I have read that RIMAs do not present the same risk of food interactions as other MAOIs. I'm still a little skittish bc I've never taken such a combination though.

 

[Pfafffed]

The answer is probably more complicated than you like. The short answer, however, is that you don't need to follow a special tyramine restriction diet when using specifically harmine and harmine at doses commonly used to potentiate tryptamines. You should still avoid medications that may interact, of which there are many. Most RIMAs used in typical doses are very safe.

Completely separately, I can't imagine any formulation with the dosages you mentioned above. Did you copy that down wrong maybe? 250mg of psilocybin is...well let's just say you aren't going to need any potentiation with that. By comparison a 450mg of Syrian rue seed powder isn't a tremendously high dose iirc, but it might be serviceable. 450mg of syrian extract is a lot, though.

 

[dosram]

The answer is probably more complicated than you like. The short answer, however, is that you don't need to follow a special tyramine restriction diet when using specifically harmine and harmine at doses commonly used to potentiate tryptamines. You should still avoid medications that may interact, of which there are many. Most RIMAs used in typical doses are very safe.

Completely separately, I can't imagine any formulation with the dosages you mentioned above. Did you copy that down wrong maybe? 250mg of psilocybin is...well let's just say you aren't going to need any potentiation with that. By comparison a 450mg of Syrian rue seed powder isn't a tremendously high dose iirc, but it might be serviceable. 450mg of syrian extract is a lot, though.

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it. It's 250 mg dry psilocybin. I think it's also 450 mg of dry syrian rue. When I first saw the dosages, I was totally confused until I realized that the psilocybin was just ground up dry mushroom. I thought that I would have to take 12 pills to get a 3 dry gram equivalent experience, but I didn't try that because I wasn't sure how the syrian rue would interact. I shall start with 1.

 

[Pfafffed]

I don't know about you, but the packaging and presentation played my biases like a fiddle. No matter what it looks like, you still just bought drugs from a vendor on the internet.

At the end of the day, the drugs that you bought were not tested by an independent third party. It may look like a dietary supplement, but there's zero regulation right now. There's no guarantee that the stated dosage is accurate or that it contains anything at all. That's not no scare you—I just think it's important that we're clear-eyed about the situation.

My usual recommendations for harm-reduction are:
1. Check your drugs with a drug checking kit (admittedly not super helpful here with something sold as encapsulated dried mushrooms)
2. Start low and go slow. There's always next time. You don't really know if there's a difference between capsules, but if we're actually dealing with dried mushrooms that won't be super consequential.
3. Don't use alone. Have a sitter on standby.

Tbh, this looks to me like a product that is only notionally a microdose kit, the way gas station bath salts weren't really for your bath. That said, even if I were to assume good intent, I couldn't make heads or tails out of the site's product descriptions. I wish I could help more, but there doesn't seem to be much to go on other than assumptions. I may have another look later after I get my morning coffee.