Hardware - Mass email to condemn GHB/1,4b use

[Cowboy Mac]

I was forwarded this email from a friend, some of you may have received it yourselves. It is an email which openly condemns the use of GHB/1,4b without providing any sources to educate recipients about safer g use, and the dangers behind its use. It is reminiscent of a zero tolerance approach which I would have though the dance scene community would have been leading the fight against, towards a harm reduction approach that we now see as the most effective method of reducing drug related incidents.

I urge Hardware and other event organisers not to condemn nor condone g use, but to use their influence to help educate party-goers about the dangers of its use. You have a duty of care for your patrons, and the ability to change their attitudes through education and drug awareness. Resorting to labelling users 'losers' is childish and counter productive. This is not an issue with a quick fix, buckle yourselves in for a long haul spanning many years Hardware and DIA.

Responses to this thread are appreciated, however also fowarding your response to Hardware will alert them that they will need to change their approach to this important issue. Be proactive.

From: "Richie McNeill" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]
Subject: DIA SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT & GHB PLEA...
Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:06:58 +1000

Dance Industry Association

The Dance Industry Association (DIA) was set-up in 1999 by event organisers to provide a forum to address issues related with Electronic music style entertainment in Victoria. Founding members include Future Entertainment, Also Foundation, Earthcore, Hardware Corporation and Lees and West. Representing a broad spectrum of dance music style events. Membership now includes Killrockstar Entertainment, Kandy Kollective, Smile Police, Sound of Now and Loaded Entertainment, and is open to anyone in the dance music industry who organises events, as long as they operate within the bounds of an Accord that stipulates certain minimum safety and organisational standards for the industry. Regarding GHB

GHB is a cheap, nasty, street drug for losers putting people in Hospital whilst putting your hard earned dollars into someone else's "pocket". Quite often made in home labs, GHB in Melbourne is putting 10-15 people a week into hospital, week in week out. You or your mates could be next.

As event organisers, we urge everyone to avoid using this drug. It's senseless use has the potential to destroy you, your scene, your mates, as well as the future of the events you like to attend. While all drugs have the potential to cause major health and mental problems, GHB has a proven track record of carnage second to none.

We do these events for our fun and yours.

Don't destroy it...

Hardware
Future
Earthcore
Sound of Now
Kandy Kollective
Smile Police
Killrockstar
Loaded Entertainment

 

[Nickstar]

Heres a reply I sent to Hardware based on my opinion,

Hi Richie,

I know you have a valid point that G does affect the rave scene in that it is bringing much unwanted attention to the dance community, but you really have not thought through the process when writing this email. It’s basically zero tolerance.

Did you guys put any thought at all into this email? Do you think little raver kids are just going to stop using G because you call them “losers” and that the money goes into someone else pockets. Sorry but doesn’t all drug sales go into someone else’s pockets? You really should have looked towards a harm minimisation approach, or at least explained a little bit further into why people are overdosing instead of being so dramatic. Yes 12 people overdose every weekend, but GHB has been around for at least 10 years in the party scene and has gone un noticed without few problems until it has become popular. Why? Because smarter users were using it before now the dumb mainstream is using it. Why are there problems?? Because people who were educated about proper dosages and different strengths in different batches were using it, being very cautious. I think you would be a lot better off educating the people in your mail out, warning them of the dangers rather than calling it a cheap nasty, street drug for losers?

How about how to dose responsibly, never take it with alcohol, be aware of different strength batches. Just to name a few ideas off the top of my head. I’m not pro-g or anti-g, I know it is one of the MOST dangerous drugs out there if used irresponsibly, but you know as well as I know people are going to use drugs, and even more so if you just go and tell them NOT to use it. I hope you take this email into consideration and even forward it onto other people in your list, please keep my email address confidential though.

Regards Nick

PS: I would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Bent]

Whilst I whole-heartedly agree with the idea that the email should have been a harm minimisation one, IMHO unfortunately in today's age of public liaibility, venue restictions/insurance, blah, blah I think you'll find it would be very hard/unwise for a BUSINESS such as Hardware, Future, et al to take any other stance than the basic "drugs are illegal. don't do them".

Yes we all know that realistically this approach wont work, but to be honest I believe their hands are tied.

 

[melburn_madness]

GHB has a proven track record of carnage second to none.

Good point none the less

 

[Dvah]

While I can understand the backlash that 1,4b is receiving, I am also in mind that it is education that is needed rather than total dismissal.
Regardless of whether hardware, future or smilepolice condone 1,4b use, it is without doubt in my mind that this will not stop people from taking it, with the influx of new people coming into the scene at any time, I think the best we can do is make sure they are well informed of the consequences 1,4b may cause when used irresponsibly.

I have heard that the promoters of Hard kandy, 3D, Bass station etc have taken a zero tolerance, and have formed a policy that anyone caught with 1,4b or under the influence of 1,4b, in their clubs, will be removed, and banned for life. I can understand this approach, as they do not want the publicity or responsibility of having to have people removed by ambulance if someone has an overdose, it does not look favorable for the club, especially right now with the media in a complete frenzy.

I have seen the stickers that were given out at HK and pharmacy quoting the "say NO to G", and I heard someone say over the weekend that a better quote would be "Say KNOW to G"....
I have to agree with that.

 

[doofhard]

Ok my 2 cents worth. GHB/1,4B is not I repeat NOT a club/rave drug.

It's killing the scene. Nobody wants to see parametics running from car to car after an event and thats exactly what I saw last time I went out. Soon will come more police presence and then what.

I strongly urge people that like this drug to have it at home and keep raving safe and

It's just not a safe place to do it, it's too hot and cold (at the moment) always dark (can't see measurements properly) and from what I'm seeing as soon as these people start to wind down and stop dancing they drop and seriously they drop like flies one after the other it's not good.

I'm still not so convinced either that it's all uneducated people that are passing out. I was speaking to some people that were on it last time I went out and although they could tell me everything I knew about the drug 1 went to hospital later that morning.

 

[melburn_madness]

would it be rite to say even experienced users have G'd at least once while on the drug?

 

[zaki]

i agree with doofhard

and to melburn_madness i think most users have, i know i have a few times, however the thing i stand by is that the only places i have blown out are at home or a friends house on a couch or even in my bed, altho this isnt really responsible practice i never take more than a medium sized dose when i go out to a club or rave, even then i rarely do it outside of the home environment. IMO G is perfect for scat partys but its definately ruining our scene and i urge people to please dose safely if you insist on taking it at a club/event. I know too many people who push the boundries too far as they try and reach that perfect G'd state you can reach. I love getting utterly wasted on G but there is a time and a place for it. IMO in a home environment with people you trust to do the right thing if something goes wrong.

 

[Tsunami1]

hk, bassstation & 3d handing out say no to drugs stickers is a tad ironic don't you think.

 

[Leprechaun]

Hey Nickstar... Did you ever get a reply to your reply? I like your approach, to the point but not overly aggressive. I definetly agree with you point of view also.

 

[stacyrox]

Inexperienced users more likely G out because they dont know what they're doing. Experienced ones do so because they're either trying to be a hero (The 'I'm more fucked up than you' syndrome) or they are chasing the high and having too much too soon.

I could list about 20 variables that need to come into consideration before any dose is calculated. I think the only safe way to use G is to understand exactly how it works with your body and all the things that make it more/less potent at any one time.

In a way I like this whole "Say not to G" campaign, which was done by ravers not clubs as far as I am aware. As much as a lack of information isnt the best way to go about things, at least right now the raving community is taking a stand and saying "this drug aint cool!" and I think if the ravers say it, then kids will listen, definately moreso than if the Herald Sun says so.

Ofcourse that doesnt fix the whole issue, and I would love to see an encouragement by promoters for information. Its a pity that something thats so blatantly obvious to everyone, that kids who go to parties take drugs, has to continually be denied by organisers due to legal restraints. And to make things worse, they deny user access to information because if they are being shown to give people info about drugs, then they must be condoning and acknowledging its use. *sigh* Its a continuing circular argument which continues going because the general population still believe that they only way to help someone who does drugs is to make them stop using, any other information isnt helping them, just assisting them at becoming more of a menace to society.

stace.

 

[mrephedrine69]

It's a dirty cheap drug that IS ruining the dance rave scene. I was out in Brisbane on Friday night, and at a renouned day club I personally watched 3 people 'G - out'. It was utterly disgraceful and disgusting. I believe that mails sent talking about 'harm reduction' would be absolutely useless for the 'G-Crowd' of people. They are not ravers, and do NOT represent the majority of the people that love dance culture, and the dance scene.

It is a cheap drug (half the issue) that attracts cheap people.
How can people ever be safe with this drug when you have to continually monitor closely your intake of it whilst your off your face?? No wonder people drop all over the place.

I would call these people losers too so that they would never come to one of my events. People that use this drug are attracting the authority's back to the dance scene like we haven't seen in years. It is also attracting alot of bad publicity in the press which also is not good for dance culture.

Even Hard House club trade has parted with venue Turnmills due to this same issue. See the below article from In-the-mix.com.au:

Legendary London hard house club Trade announced this week that they've parted company from their original venue Turnmills, after a number of their clubbers suffered GHB related overdoses at their recent Easter party.

"Obviously we are deeply saddened at Turnmills' decision, but we respect their decision with this growing menace," Trade said in a statement posted on their website.

"The proliferation of GHB, in recent times, is a growing menace to the clubbing scene as a whole and a few individuals are in danger of ruining some of the best clubs in the world, for the majority of sensible clubbers," they continued. "When will these individuals wake up to the damage they are doing to your clubbing scene?"

http://www.inthemix.com.au/p/np/viewnews.php?id=15198

These idiots on this drug ARE losers and are screwing up OUR scene.

 

[hoptis]

While we all knew that there would be consequences from the overdoses at Melbourne Two Tribes which made the news, little did we expect that the movement would come from within the scene. Dance party organisers have gotten together to do something which they think is necessary to protect the future of the dance music scene in Melbourne.

Today's Inpress (Zebra/Members Only) has an article covering a lot of what has already been mentioned in this thread. Richie's email is part of a broader movement to get G out of hard dance clubs and parties.

I am strongly of the belief that education will always be more effective than zero tolerance and I'm not impressed at the use of such an overtly emotive word like "loser" to describe G users. The fact is, the people that run the Melbourne scene; whether their interest is in preserving something special in our lives (G.O.D., Smile Police, Earthcore) or their profit margins (Future), are willing to stigmatise a group of drug users to get G out of their clubs and parties.

GHB is going to become the heroin of the dance music scene.

Let's face it, people dropping like flies at a dance party is bad publicity, full stop. No one wants that. One way to prevent it is to encourage people not to take G at events, to keep it at home, it's something Bluelight has recommended in the past due to the the difficulties of dosing correctly in dark or dimly lit places; I support any action that will help encourage people to leave G away from events.

I talked to a friend today who upon hearing about the backlash doesn't plan to take G at parties anymore, instead keeping it to home. I doubt that she'll be the only one.

Yet Hardware and the DIA could have done what they've achieved so far without resorting to stigmatising G users or labelling people 'losers'. Remember; the ends never justifies the means.

 

[secret squirrel]

GHB is going to become the heroin of the dance music scene.

I support any action that will help encourage people to leave G away from events.

.

Agreed.

This shit is ruining the scene. I and everyone I go out with have had enough of watching ppl out of control, suffering convulsing fits, and or being taken away by an ambulance. We see the first two everytime now and ther latter becoming regular.

 

[Dvah]

It is a cheap drug (half the issue) that attracts cheap people.
How can people ever be safe with this drug when you have to continually monitor closely your intake of it whilst your off your face?? No wonder people drop all over the place.

I would call these people losers too so that they would never come to one of my events. People that use this drug are attracting the authority's back to the dance scene like we haven't seen in years. It is also attracting alot of bad publicity in the press which also is not good for dance culture.


These idiots on this drug ARE losers and are screwing up OUR scene.

Hrmm...very strong words there.
Who do you class as "these" ppl?
I understand your viewpoint, but don't entirely agree with all of it.
Although, I am in Melb so the calibre of ppl that take 1,4b here may vary quite abit, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that 1,4b is cheap and therefore attracts cheap ppl, or that everyone that takes it is a loser.
It is a drug that demands respect, I have always said that and I agree that there is nothing worse than watching someone on a G overdose, it is very unpleasant.
I have many friends that still enjoy 1,4b very much at a recovery, or home environment and it has never been a problem, everyone is well aware of the dangers of 1,4b and certain rules are always obeyed by all when 1,4b is in use. I wouldnt call them, or myself for that matter "cheap" or "losers", but we are not the ones that are taking 1,4b at events and being carted away by paramedics.
There are still ppl out there that do safely enjoy 1,4b remember.
I don't enjoy what is going on with 1,4b at the moment but Im not going to point fingers and label ppl. Hopefully the message will get through, or I agree that this could be quite damaging to the rave scene as we know it.

 

[exkraut]

nearly everyone I know has seriously become involved with juice in the past few weeks.

Has anyone else noticed that when someone is on juice they become much less likable people? If they want to do something they do it, they don't care and are inconsiderate -- completely different vibe than the ecstasy crowd. IMHO it's definetly NOT a social drug.

This is my main problem with the drug and why I've told my friends that if they want to do juice fine, but I aint coming out with them. They're simply not good company.

-pat

 

[mrephedrine69]

I have many friends that still enjoy 1,4b very much at a recovery, or home environment and it has never been a problem, everyone is well aware of the dangers of 1,4b and certain rules are always obeyed by all when 1,4b is in use. I wouldnt call them, or myself for that matter "cheap" or "losers", but we are not the ones that are taking 1,4b at events and being carted away by paramedics.

Hey Dvah,

You have a respectability due to the fact that, as stated above, you use it at a recovery or at home, not taking it at events.

The problem is the 'losers' who think it is appropriate to use this drug in nightclubs and events, in front of drug-free people, in public in front of parents and children, and in front of babies who have only just turned 18. This is where there is a loss of respect for the dance culture and for other people. I expected to see this when I went to a day club, but should I of had to??

I'm not saying it can't be used responsibly.

But, hey, heroin can be used responsibly as well.

This drug is appearing to have many very similair effects on people such as heroin. Although the feeling may not be the same, there is a lot of people out there that are putting themselves into all kinds of messy states and OD'ing. It reminds me vividly of the heroin epedemic when I lived in Melbourne a few years ago.

People's views on drugs (including my own) are generally formed from perception. And unfortunately, I have never known or seen anyone drop from having a speed/coke/or an E. I have only ever seen people that are happy/friendly/social. This is what I believe makes dance culture special and unique.

So I feel that when people are using a drug that can have similair side-effects to heroin, in clubs and at events, these 'losers' are ruining and tarnishing a culture that thrives on happiness, love, fun, and being sociable.

There's a time and a place for everything, and there's no place for GHB users in the dance scene.

 

[doofhard]

The thing is why take a drug that demands respect when most people can't. I mean if you want half a pill you can just bite it in half and close enough is good enough.

 

[Dvah]

People's views on drugs (including my own) are generally formed from perception. And unfortunately, I have never known or seen anyone drop from having a speed/coke/or an E. I have only ever seen people that are happy/friendly/social. This is what I believe makes dance culture special and unique.

So I feel that when people are using a drug that can have similair side-effects to heroin, in clubs and at events, these 'losers' are ruining and tarnishing a culture that thrives on happiness, love, fun, and being sociable.

There's a time and a place for everything, and there's no place for GHB users in the dance scene

The difference here is that the margin in which you have for 1,4b to become fatal is alot less than any other of the mentioned drugs.
Thats what frightens me.
I don't believe that zero tolerance is the answer.

I don't enjoy watching ppl suffering anxiety attacks from to many amphets, I don't enjoy watching people lying puddled on mdma, unable to do anything but gurn like a fool and throw up (these are both things I see repeatedly at events aswell)

On the "correct" dose of 1,4b, people experience all the love, chattiness and energy that you feel on many more acceptable drugs, but thats the problem...the dosage.
With 1,4b, less is more, as with many other drugs, but the difference is that if you don't take that approach you will end up very sick at the least.

Its a shame that the dance community has latched onto 1,4b in such a vicious manner and its also a shame that it has reflected so badly on dance events but I guess the one thing that annoys me almost more than anything else is that its has reflected badly on a drug that myself, and many ppl I know have been using and enjoying for quite sometime.
(hell I even remember when we could get the REAL GHB...hehehe)
I guess I have seen the "good" side of 1,4b, and I do admit what is happening now does annoy and upset me.

You cant say to people "no you cant have that"...its not going to stop them, but at least we can help point out the reasons "why" and then let them make their own decisions well informed.

 

[Lizard Queen]

When we belong to a society that can’t even use alcohol responsibly, why is it so hard to realise that people won’t use other substances responsibly. There are a lot of stupid people out there and with the popularity of the dance scene ever increasing, it begins to represent a more diverse cross-section of the types of individuals in society. Personally, I see no clear solution to the problem being discussed, as I see no solution to stupidity.