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Opioids Hardest to stop? Tramadol or Buprenorphine?

Tramadol is a horrible drug. Stick to your oxy and fentanyl. If you research Tramadol you will find that it’s the worst drug to become dependent on. I have used it a couple of times every 3 years and I realize that it’s not worth the buzz. Better with typical opioids. This is my experience.
 
I've only been through bupe withdrawal once.

And it was for a week.
I didn't sleep at all that week. And was barely able to get up & shower or do anything physical.

I think both probably suck to come off of, just to varying degrees.

If I came off of bupe now after 8 years of daily use, it might be worse than coming off a month binge of tramadol. Not sure.

No opioid withdrawal is easy honestly.

If you take opioids long enough like I have, eventually you never really feel back to "normal" no matter how long the withdrawal lasts.
 
This isn't something that can be answered in a useful way for the OP. I'm not shitting on the thread or everyone's contributions, I just mean this issue is so subjective and subject to infinite different variables that we could discuss it for the rest of our lives without ever coming closer to a conclusion.

Buprenorphine is going to be the best practical choice. It is a prescribed medication I assume or it otherwise can be prescribed. This gives you time and control in how you approach your relationship with the drug. You can taper slowly at your own speed or not taper at all. The medication will always be there. I'm not sure if you're prescribed Tramadol or not. The issue is that this drug is treated just like the other Opioids meaning there is never a guarantee that you will keep your prescription. Buprenorphine offers more stability in my opinion.
 
Mitchb105 said:
Which is harder to stop? Buprenorphine or Tramadol? I use a Butrans patch responsibly 22mcg/hour/7days. I am afraid to stop. I stay away from Tramadol as I don’t use them responsibly therefore I don’t use them at all. Which is harder to stop? Butrans or Tramadol?
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Buprenorphine because it's a full-on opioid and MUCH MUCH stronger.
Tramadol can be really tough is you aren't on an SSRI/SNRI, though, as it as acts as an SNRI, so you're essentially experiencing two withdrawals in one.
 
Buprenorphine may be more potent but it's only a partial agonist.
Tramadol on the other hand is not very potent, but it has a full-agonist metabolite.

So you would think a full agonist withdrawal is always going to be worse than WD from a partial agonist.

But as Keif Richards said, it's incredibly subjective.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
The expiration date's for these kinds of pills are basically useless.

The only drugs that ever actually "expire" are antibiotics & drugs like that. But as long as the med is stored away properly, it can last forever.


I once tried some darvocet in 2017 that my neighbor had found in her moms basement. They expired in 2009. Yet they still got us high as hell, even to the point of nodding.

I've also had tramadol that was 5 years past the expiration date & they still worked just as good. I think they just put the expiration dates on there for liability reasons & to get people to discard their medication instead of keeping it.
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I'm pretty sure liquid medications lose potency faster than tablets, though.
 
toe said:
I'm pretty sure liquid medications lose potency faster than tablets, though.
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This is true.

Generally liquid preparations can & will expire eventually.

But a tablet/capsule will probably out last most people's lives, as long as it doesn't get wet & is stored in good conditions.


I've taken expired darvocet before. It was like past 10 years being expired & it still worked. Worked too good in fact, cause I nodded the hell out.
I've also had 4 year expired tramadol that worked just fine as well.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
Tramadol on the other hand has a full agonist metabolite, which obviously has 100% intrinsic activity versus 40% with bupe.
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Bupe also has a full agonist metabolite - norbupe. That’s why people report lower doses to work better than slightly higher ones because the ratio of bupe to norbupe because lower at lower doses
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Bupe also has a full agonist metabolite - norbupe. That’s why people report lower doses to work better than slightly higher ones because the ratio of bupe to norbupe because lower at lower doses
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This is true, but it's debatable, because so far, I haven't found any evidence showing that norbupe can actually get into the brain.
It has a similar time trying to get through the BBB like loperamide does. It's also much less potent than bupe, so by the time your body makes enough norbupe, it's mostly likely going to get blocked by the parent compound.

Some sites say norbupe has no meaningful activity in the body & some sites say it does, but I think the overall consensuses is that most of the effects felt on bupe are simply from the bupe & a few other metabolites.

I personally think the reason people feel their bupe more at lower doses has less to do with norbupe & more to do with blood levels & half-lives.

For example, if I took 4mg of bupe one day, by the time I go to dose the next morning, that 4mg is still in effect. And then I take another 4mg & so now I have 8mg in my system & this eventually adds up over time until you hit the ceiling limit. But if some one only takes like .5mg of bupe one day & then the next day takes another .5mg, they're more likely to feel the difference because they still have a ton of receptors open for the new fresh bupe to attach to. Where as some one taking 4mg a day is always at maximum receptor saturation.

It's possible norbupe could be playing some role in lower doses, but I just haven't found any actual evidence of it. And rising blood levels of bupe sounds more plausible for why people report feeling more at lower doses.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
This is true, but it's debatable, because so far, I haven't found any evidence showing that norbupe can actually get into the brain.
It has a similar time trying to get through the BBB like loperamide does. It's also much less potent than bupe, so by the time your body makes enough norbupe, it's mostly likely going to get blocked by the parent compound.

Some sites say norbupe has no meaningful activity in the body & some sites say it does, but I think the overall consensuses is that most of the effects felt on bupe are simply from the bupe & a few other metabolites.

I personally think the reason people feel their bupe more at lower doses has less to do with norbupe & more to do with blood levels & half-lives.

For example, if I took 4mg of bupe one day, by the time I go to dose the next morning, that 4mg is still in effect. And then I take another 4mg & so now I have 8mg in my system & this eventually adds up over time until you hit the ceiling limit. But if some one only takes like .5mg of bupe one day & then the next day takes another .5mg, they're more likely to feel the difference because they still have a ton of receptors open for the new fresh bupe to attach to. Where as some one taking 4mg a day is always at maximum receptor saturation.

It's possible norbupe could be playing some role in lower doses, but I just haven't found any actual evidence of it. And rising blood levels of bupe sounds more plausible for why people report feeling more at lower doses.
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I wasn’t aware it didn’t cross the BBB. The Wikipedia article says this too….also though the Wikipedia article says it’s an “active metabolite” that causes marked respiratory depression vs bupe; but not increased antinocioceptive effect. So maybe it’s having peripheral effects that do cause some sensation in the user?
 
LucidSDreamr said:
I wasn’t aware it didn’t cross the BBB. The Wikipedia article says this too….also though the Wikipedia article says it’s an “active metabolite” that causes marked respiratory depression vs bupe; but not increased antinocioceptive effect. So maybe it’s having peripheral effects that do cause some sensation in the user?
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It's very possible that it might be having peripheral effects. This could be why bupe can still cause constipation & respiratory depression.

But yeah, as you've seen from Wikipedia, there seems to be a lot of contradictory statements about norbupe. And it's like this even on science & med articles.

But if norbupe were able to cross the BBB effectively, then all you'd have to do is simply take some buprenorphine orally, most of it would be converted by the liver into norbupe & bam, you'd be able to get high like you're on a full agonist. But as far as I know, taking buprenorphine orally doesn't really amount to much in terms of effects. So there's gotta be some complex mechanisms in place preventing one from actually being able to experience norbupe in the CNS.


Tramadol's metabolite crosses the BBB & is actually more potent than the parent drug, so that's why I think tramadol has more of an ability to cause a "true" high than buprenorphine does. Although back in the day when I first started bupe, I'd get some wonderful highs out of it. But I've never been able to replicate those highs since. where as with tramadol, I could consistently get a high or some kind of effect from it every day.
 
Yeah I have noticed more of an alive ready for the morning vibe on 1mg vs my usual 3-4mg...so makes sense and have heard of this before.
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
It's very possible that it might be having peripheral effects. This could be why bupe can still cause constipation & respiratory depression.

But yeah, as you've seen from Wikipedia, there seems to be a lot of contradictory statements about norbupe. And it's like this even on science & med articles.

But if norbupe were able to cross the BBB effectively, then all you'd have to do is simply take some buprenorphine orally, most of it would be converted by the liver into norbupe & bam, you'd be able to get high like you're on a full agonist. But as far as I know, taking buprenorphine orally doesn't really amount to much in terms of effects. So there's gotta be some complex mechanisms in place preventing one from actually being able to experience norbupe in the CNS.


Tramadol's metabolite crosses the BBB & is actually more potent than the parent drug, so that's why I think tramadol has more of an ability to cause a "true" high than buprenorphine does. Although back in the day when I first started bupe, I'd get some wonderful highs out of it. But I've never been able to replicate those highs since. where as with tramadol, I could consistently get a high or some kind of effect from it every day.
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I’m one of those people that never had a problem getting a strong high off bupe, even while dependent on full agonists.

So my views on how good it is are kinda biased…I know a lot of people hate bupe and find it dysphoric
 
LucidSDreamr said:
I’m one of those people that never had a problem getting a strong high off bupe, even while dependent on full agonists.

So my views on how good it is are kinda biased…I know a lot of people hate bupe and find it dysphoric
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It's weird, cause I actually started using bupe back in 2017 because it was cheaper than heroin & I felt like I could just as high off of it.
It was way more convenient cause I could make a $10 strip last me a whole week, where as $50 bucks worth of heroin only lasted me maybe 3 days if I was lucky.

So I just started using bupe instead & then eventually went & got on it legally. Back then I could still get a decent "high" from subs, but it disappeared after awhile.
I'd have to let my tolerance drop to nearly non-existent in order to get that high back though, which as an opioid-addict, it's kind of hard to go without anything long enough to do that. lol

But I've used full agonists again since then, many times & I eventually remembered why they are so much better (for me anyway). They just give stronger pain relief, more euphoria & all that. I'd honestly prefer to be on methadone, but I'm not going to a clinic every day for it, fuck that. lol I can't even get up & go anywhere at all in the morning until after I've dosed my bupe & it's fully kicked in. Plus what happens if my car breaks down or it snows really bad & I can't get to the clinic? The rules & regulations around methadone are so arbitrary & stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I still technically get a very strong "high" from bupe too, even after being on it for 8 years & taking it every day. It's just that the "high" is incredibly lacking for me. Like I even still get the nods from it, but they're not the content/euphoric nods that you'd get from heroin. I don't get any of that "I feel completely content" or pain-free or any euphoria from it like I would from a full agonist. I basically just feel like I'm on a strong sedating opioid all day long, but without any euphoria or any of the good effects of a full agonist. Which kinda sucks.

I know the purpose of maintenance isn't for "getting high", but it is suppose to be about stopping cravings. And I think it would kill my cravings better if I at least got some euphoria or contentedness out of it. Even tramadol still gave me euphoria even when using it day after day & gaining a tolerance to it.

Actually bupe + trams is a great combo. If they allowed people to use a bupe/tram combo, I think I'd feel more satisfied than being on either bupe or trams alone.

But there was a time when bupe was pretty good at getting me feeling great.
Anyways, sorry for the long rant. :P
 
DeathIndustrial88 said:
It's weird, cause I actually started using bupe back in 2017 because it was cheaper than heroin & I felt like I could just as high off of it.
It was way more convenient cause I could make a $10 strip last me a whole week, where as $50 bucks worth of heroin only lasted me maybe 3 days if I was lucky.

So I just started using bupe instead & then eventually went & got on it legally. Back then I could still get a decent "high" from subs, but it disappeared after awhile.
I'd have to let my tolerance drop to nearly non-existent in order to get that high back though, which as an opioid-addict, it's kind of hard to go without anything long enough to do that. lol

But I've used full agonists again since then, many times & I eventually remembered why they are so much better (for me anyway). They just give stronger pain relief, more euphoria & all that. I'd honestly prefer to be on methadone, but I'm not going to a clinic every day for it, fuck that. lol I can't even get up & go anywhere at all in the morning until after I've dosed my bupe & it's fully kicked in. Plus what happens if my car breaks down or it snows really bad & I can't get to the clinic? The rules & regulations around methadone are so arbitrary & stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I still technically get a very strong "high" from bupe too, even after being on it for 8 years & taking it every day. It's just that the "high" is incredibly lacking for me. Like I even still get the nods from it, but they're not the content/euphoric nods that you'd get from heroin. I don't get any of that "I feel completely content" or pain-free or any euphoria from it like I would from a full agonist. I basically just feel like I'm on a strong sedating opioid all day long, but without any euphoria or any of the good effects of a full agonist. Which kinda sucks.

I know the purpose of maintenance isn't for "getting high", but it is suppose to be about stopping cravings. And I think it would kill my cravings better if I at least got some euphoria or contentedness out of it. Even tramadol still gave me euphoria even when using it day after day & gaining a tolerance to it.

Actually bupe + trams is a great combo. If they allowed people to use a bupe/tram combo, I think I'd feel more satisfied than being on either bupe or trams alone.

But there was a time when bupe was pretty good at getting me feeling great.
Anyways, sorry for the long rant. :P
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i agree that the analgesic effect of bupe is shit. I would get nods but noticed the pain releif was poor.
 
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