Which is harder to stop? Buprenorphine or Tramadol? I use a Butrans patch responsibly 22mcg/hour/7days. I am afraid to stop. I stay away from Tramadol as I don’t use them responsibly therefore I don’t use them at all. Which is harder to stop? Butrans or Tramadol?
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Hardest to stop? Tramadol or Buprenorphine?
- Thread starter Mitchb105
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lolis my thesis
Bluelighter
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I am on 15mgs methadone I imagine its gonna be hard to stop
If you are already on the bupe, maybe you could inquire about these new depot injections
Then the drug slowly dissipates and I believe you can maintain on the monthly shot
Or get smaller amounts injected and you would have the smoothest taper possible
I don't want to come off the methadone especially for pain; and precipitated w/d can/ will happen if I take subs too soon
I
If you are already on the bupe, maybe you could inquire about these new depot injections
Then the drug slowly dissipates and I believe you can maintain on the monthly shot
Or get smaller amounts injected and you would have the smoothest taper possible
I don't want to come off the methadone especially for pain; and precipitated w/d can/ will happen if I take subs too soon
I
Bupe has a mammoth half-life which means the WDs will drag on for a long time. It is also much stronger than tramadol.
However, aside from the usual consideration (dosage, length of use, etc.), which one is harder to detox from seems to vary significantly depending on a person's individual chemical make up. There are people on this board who say that tramadol was their worst WD experience. I'm sure people will chime in with their experiences.
However, aside from the usual consideration (dosage, length of use, etc.), which one is harder to detox from seems to vary significantly depending on a person's individual chemical make up. There are people on this board who say that tramadol was their worst WD experience. I'm sure people will chime in with their experiences.
SuperPsych
Bluelighter
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Never have been addicted to Tramadol, but one thing to consider is that it's also an SNRI on top of being an opioid. So when detoxing from Tramadol you'll experience both Opioid and SNRI withdrawal.
I did take Suboxone for a while. Between 1 and 2 years. I got my dose to about 1mg or less a day. Attempted a cold turkey. I made it 9 days and broke and started taking Kratom which I am still on unfortunately. I was just as miserable on day 9 as I was on day 2 and 3 of the cold turkey. Seemed like there was no end in sight. I really regret breaking and starting kratom. I was probably a few days of noticing some improvement, but 9 days of the insomnia and restlessness and I couldn't take it anymore
I did take Suboxone for a while. Between 1 and 2 years. I got my dose to about 1mg or less a day. Attempted a cold turkey. I made it 9 days and broke and started taking Kratom which I am still on unfortunately. I was just as miserable on day 9 as I was on day 2 and 3 of the cold turkey. Seemed like there was no end in sight. I really regret breaking and starting kratom. I was probably a few days of noticing some improvement, but 9 days of the insomnia and restlessness and I couldn't take it anymore
But codeine turns into morphine and tramadol into O-DSMT which Is more potent MOR agonist than oxycodone.
But with anticonvulsants u Can take 2000 of tramadol and it would be metabolized. With codeine, no more than 300-400mg can turn into morphine ( highest affinity out of these) but i want to say, 2000mg tramadol daily WD was 2x worse than smoking pure hydromorphone powder from pill factory. Both wds were horrible but tram ( i am fast metabolizer ) was simmilary uncomfortable but it lasted long as fuck. But i never used bupe long enough to know how bad it has WD..
Mate, bupe and methadone are the worst!
Bupe and tramadol I’d almost consider equal in my worst WD experience. Tramadol was living hell to come off of, no idea my exact dose but best guess is over 1500mg. Not the worst WDs physically over other opiates, but even taking other drugs to ease WDs did next to nothing for the WDs. I felt like straight shit, and also super weird from the SNRI WD I think, even while high on other stuff like oxy. It lasted about a week and I pretty much swore off ever taking tramadol again, but it only took me one try to come off of it. Didn’t have much of a choice, though.
Bupe on the other hand the WDs weren’t bad themself, they just last forever. And ever. And when you finally think shits getting better, they come back. Over the last few years I tried to kick it countless times and I don’t think I ever even made it to the 2 week mark because I physically couldn’t function from lack of sleep. RLS was the real killer for me, but it really didn’t even feel like regular RLS. I would fall asleep for a little bit and would wake up with my entire body jerking, and then I’d continue to do it all night long. This last time(I finally succeeded) I beat the shit out of my girl nightly because every time I would manage to drift off I’d just start fucking flailing in my sleep lol. Then I’d wake up shortly after to a beaten and pissed off fiance. It’s her own fault though, she wouldn’t let me go sleep on the couch.
But if you don’t go fuckin crazy on Tramadol and rip your tolerance through the roof I believe it would be much easier to come off of. I don’t really suggest switching from one to the other in an attempt to quit, especially since you said you can’t use tramadol responsibly. I’m assuming you’re prescribed the bupe, so maybe talk to your doctor or whoever about tapering down as it’ll make it much easier. I think my biggest downfall with coming off suboxone was that I didn’t acquire it legally, and half of my kicking attempts were because the person I got it from was going into rehab/jail. So if I did taper it was a quick, half assed taper with whatever I had left - or I’d just take it as I normally would(or half my doses and just be mostly in WD before full WD) until I ran out. Definitely not the most efficient way to quit something
I've had 3 bottles of Tramadol forever. I actually am down to 2 bottles because I take 1 100 mg capsule maybe 2 or 3 times a month. Maybe less as one 50 cap bottle lasted me way more than a year.
The problem is I have had it so long that the 2 bottles are set to expire in 2025.
Will it be bad after its expiration date, or does it just gradually lose potency?
The problem is I have had it so long that the 2 bottles are set to expire in 2025.
Will it be bad after its expiration date, or does it just gradually lose potency?
It just gradually loses potency. Around 3 years ago I opened the dumpster at work to throw garbage in and my junkie eyes immediately caught a glimpse of a couple pill bottles sitting on top. In broad daylight I snatched them as fast and inconspicuous as I could, one was Amitriptyline which went straight back in the dumpster and the other was Tramadol - expiration 2008 or 2009. So old it didn’t even have the orange ‘Controlled Substance’ label on it, because it wasn’t controlled yet lol. Walked back into work with a smile on my face and a rattle in my pocket and immediately went into the bathroom. After a quick google search to make sure it was actually tramadol in the bottle I ate 200mg and within ~40 minutes they hit just as well, or at least close enough, as some brand new pills would. It was only a 30 count script and there were 5 or so missing, so they didn’t last long but it was during a time when I couldn’t get any subs so it was well needed and appreciated
Thanks,
Reading here now scares me away from Tramadol. I though it was supposed to be much less addictive than Oxy's, but apparently lots of people have gotten in trouble with it. I like to have the stuff around because I no longer trust the medical profession. I have a prostate surgery coming up and all the medical literature says "Oh the pain is not that bad."
Then I talk to guys who had the procedure and they say "bullshit, recovery is very painful, especially when you have to urinate. You will be pissing blood."
I would say it is definitely less addictive than oxys if you’re not already opiate dependent. If you’re already addicted to another opiate and lose access to that one and gain supply of tramadol is really when, at least in my opinion, somebody can lose control with it. It’s really not that strong of an opiate and has a pretty high risk factor with the seizure threshold being only at ~400mg, so any sane person who isn’t already tolerant of large doses of more potent drugs isn’t nearly as likely to abuse them in excess.
Thanks. I have access to Oxy's but I hardly ever take it. I do take Kratom fairly often but I keep it to 5 grams a day.
I do read and take seriously all the stories here about how dangerous opioids can be.
Glad I read past "I beat the shit out of my girl nightly". Had me a bit worried Lol
as others have said -tramadol is a mindfu**k due to snri wd-deep gloom depression suicidal almost- ive been on tram for over 10 years-i was on subs b4 and jumped at 4 mg couldnt get to 2mg had to go back to 4mg-
and then I moved/ran out-no local doctor at the time in new state-
bupe it does last longer bupe wd/ but that is subjective-4 weeks -then the anhedonia after but it does lift-
tram has longer half life and last like 2 weeks the main physical part-wd 1st week as usual the worst-as opposed to 2-4 days like reg full agonist and the stomach stuff lasted longer-
then with tram there is the double fck of theres the snri-wd part which if you already have depression as i do its too much-
when i went on i thought it was a good thing-it was touted as low/no wd /abuse potential and could even be bought online-but it came out in late 90's and by 2014 had been rescheduled-and at some point got an seretonin syndrome warning due to ssri effect and now its known to be a snri
i found out 'supposedly' original test for approval were all i.v.
so 'they didnt know' of 1st pass metabolism odesmethyltram thing because that happens only with oral ingestion..
.i think they would/should be sued if otherwise
if id have known about the snri effect-so basically a dual wd-opiate and antidepressanr
id never have switched to it thinking it was safer and less of a 'danger'..
i never 'felt' compelled to take more or 'abuse' it and actually at 8 a day i felt worse then 4-5-prob the snri part and the warning of seizure would have helped me by scaring me to not take more
i was clean for 10 years on tram bcz it also ruined other opies by damping-blocking them
-when i had my appendix out i had to wait 2 days to feel the vicoden
-i took 1 after not taking tram for a day and felt nothing-the next day i took 2 vicoden and barley felt that familear feeling-
so it will mess up tolerance effect of other opies-
even shots in er for kidney stone wont work near as well if on tram steady-
id may as well not went to the er-thats how much it messes up felt effect and this lasts at least 2 weeks i suspect
granted i never took more than 8 a day as prescribed-but i got myself down to 4 or 1 4x a day of 50mg
if i take even 1 extra(really not bcz it was written 2...four x a day-but say i took 2 instead of 1 if pain was up-i could tell by how shitty i felt next day and for 2 weeks just from 1-i suspect the snri part
it is 'evil' drug-
id been better off staying on reg opies
and ive been on most everything and all roa
and my sub wd was 2007 so kinda hard to remember-all the little stuff but not the main stuff
(was on sub wd- from2003-7
started on 24mg-took myself to 8mg no issue/difference
-but 8mg to 4 i noticed but do-able-
but jumping off at 4mg...well...
i went down to 92lbs from 160-and all the usual-bowels/insomnia-hot/cold/restless legs-well more just hurt no esacape the legs thing sucks-
no 'kicking' spasms like i had from only 1 month on methadone once
but also had kidney stones so was in pain during the sub wd-
and back to tram
I also lots of strange stuff- i get the rare atypical wd from tram-
paranoia-aches etc depersonalization bone pain etc etc-even random mild 'hallucinations-visual spots etc/air moving like molecules
and audio-phone message alert sound or my doorbell
which is odd because my doorbell is not working without batteries in it and i had my phone on mute
look up 'atypical tram wd effects'-its awful-
look up effexor 'atypical'wd-basically the same
thats what tram is like-reg wd but for me added atypical crap
bcz it is an snri as well as shitty partial mu activity('pain') action- (tramadol)
tram will mess you up mentally-opiates did but tram was worse for me
i almost got into car accidents etc-from the brain fog/lack of executive decision masking-
id sit at stop sign and wait to go and finally go
and a car that seemd far away
was right there and almost hit me once type stuff-
my timing/judgment was gone- also part of the snri wd-but id not try to drive on the worst day of an opie wd
but the tram mental stuff goes on for like 2 weeks-the 1st week is worse obviously-and then the months of no energy appetite and headaches temp disregulation-id suspect ive not gone months and months though ever yet off tram-but will be soon-
just without actual help/support to get stuff done-i.e. remember to pay bills-get food eat-
so i cannot get of tram-just cold turkey
i will be going back to subs soon-begrudgingly
i tried using 7oh to get off tram-but still get the snri part of wd from tram
it starts at 12 hours in and gets trippy at 24
and between the 12-24 mark the sneezingetc starts-insomnia and the gut stuff starts up
so 7ohmz which i discoverd in oct-i thought id try get off trams with kratom-nope plus it messes with my stress ulcer/bleeding and bp etc
but now have 7oh that dependence-from smoke shop tabs
i have legit pain so need something
and my new doc is dropping the tram by 5 a month this has been over the last year-
now at 2 1/2 a day( from 2x4 a day) and its been hell-i couldnt get paperwork done for my ssdi assistance etc-really messing me up-
lost my utility assistance today-
and only get 950 a month to live on so that is a big blow in winter
im in legit pain-from being hit by drunk driver on my mountain bike years ago and sciatica /disc degeneration from heavy construction-landscaping for 20 years-
so need to take something-
but on tram taper cannot think-drive etc-and have zero support since i know nobody here.
only reason i can type this is because i took a 7ohmz-1 /2 tablet-hour 1/2 ago
-its costing me too much money to use 7 hydroxy but it works for pain-
so i will go back to subs and hope it helps with my pain-
and im 60 soon and i cant do a sub wd again-so will be on for life-
i just fear if i need a surgery or something-
when on subs w/kidney stones i couldnt get much help because subz blocked the shots in the emergency room-
it is a hard choice-
but i have no other options but subz it seems-
nobody writes for pain meds anymore-
my new doc wont even do a new mri- i think she thinks i want to stay -on tram and am exaggerating
(which i dont) ive tried to stop on my own a few times-
and am stuck on it now-plus it sucks for pain
or they dont want sued for having me on tram for 10 years without doing anything/therapy etc for my nerve/back issues
idk but i hope this keeps anyone from messing with trams-or at least taking them for extended times-even 2weeks some people have wd-so fair warning-be safe evryone and well wishes
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sounds rough man
good luck, i wish you well
DeathIndustrial88
Bluelighter
Tramadol is worse IME.
Buprenorphine may be "stronger" (aka more potent), but it's also only a partial agonist. It only activates your opioid receptors like 40% of the way.
Tramadol on the other hand has a full agonist metabolite, which obviously has 100% intrinsic activity versus 40% with bupe.
So technically, tramadol is "stronger" in terms of effects but it's "weaker" in terms of potency (how much of the drug it takes to cause an effect).
Plus tramadol has very weak SNRI properties & is also a TAAR1 agonist (which releases serotonin, similar to MDMA, meth, etc.. just not to the same degree).
I went through tramadol withdrawal every month from ages of 19 to 30. Typical opioid WD symptoms, restlessness, lethargic, sweating, stomach issues, whole body aches, depression, suicidal ideation, etc.. etc..
Tramadol WD lasts at least 7 days too. And the post-acute withdrawal symptoms can last forever. I still think about & daydream about my days I spent on tramadol.
I've never truly come off of bupe yet though so I guess I'm a little biased when it comes to this question.
Buprenorphine may be "stronger" (aka more potent), but it's also only a partial agonist. It only activates your opioid receptors like 40% of the way.
Tramadol on the other hand has a full agonist metabolite, which obviously has 100% intrinsic activity versus 40% with bupe.
So technically, tramadol is "stronger" in terms of effects but it's "weaker" in terms of potency (how much of the drug it takes to cause an effect).
Plus tramadol has very weak SNRI properties & is also a TAAR1 agonist (which releases serotonin, similar to MDMA, meth, etc.. just not to the same degree).
I went through tramadol withdrawal every month from ages of 19 to 30. Typical opioid WD symptoms, restlessness, lethargic, sweating, stomach issues, whole body aches, depression, suicidal ideation, etc.. etc..
Tramadol WD lasts at least 7 days too. And the post-acute withdrawal symptoms can last forever. I still think about & daydream about my days I spent on tramadol.
I've never truly come off of bupe yet though so I guess I'm a little biased when it comes to this question.
DeathIndustrial88
Bluelighter
The expiration date's for these kinds of pills are basically useless.
The only drugs that ever actually "expire" are antibiotics & drugs like that. But as long as the med is stored away properly, it can last forever.
I once tried some darvocet in 2017 that my neighbor had found in her moms basement. They expired in 2009. Yet they still got us high as hell, even to the point of nodding.
I've also had tramadol that was 5 years past the expiration date & they still worked just as good. I think they just put the expiration dates on there for liability reasons & to get people to discard their medication instead of keeping it.
Thanks. I hardly ever take the Tramadol. I might try some this Saturday. I take about 4 grams of Kratom a day but only get high on opioids once a week (and hence never have any WDs).
My usual ritual is to take 1 30 mg Oxy and 1 fentanyl pill and one Soma. I then wait an hour and take one more Oxy. I then wait 45 minutes and take 1 more fentanyl.
How do you suggest a take my Tramadol? They are 150 mgs. Just swap out for one of the Oxys/fents?
DeathIndustrial88
Bluelighter
Tramadol works best with stacked doses.
I use to take one 50mg pill every 20-30 mins or so until I reached 400mg for the day. And that usually kept me feeling great all day long.
But 400mg for some one who doesn't regularly use opioids is probably way too much.
I would break the 150 in half actually, try it & see how you feel in about an hour & a half & then take the other half if you think you need it.
Some people can't metabolize tramadol very well, so you might find it lackluster if you're a poor metabolizer. It's also a little different than oxy or fentanyl, it's much less potent but can still send you into a nod.
Taking more than 400mg of tramadol in a day increases your risk of seizures though.