• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Hallucinogen questions

PlurredChemistry

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
2,060
Location
San Francisco, CA
Hey Everyone,
I'm looking to try some hallucinogens in the future, but here its way easier to get acid than to get shrooms...
I'm curious, if i wait and try shrooms first, will it make an acid trip 'easier'? Or would it be just fine to go straight ahead to acid?
Any help/comments are appreciated
:-)
~Mateo~
------------------
-Work Like You Don't Need The Money-
-Love Like You've Never Been Hurt-
-Dance Like Nobody's Watching-
PLUR and PEACE OUT
 
A trip is a trip whether it's on paper or in a mushroom. Acid is not as dangerous as everyone makes out on all the anti drug propagander sites. I don't know what you're mental stablity is like but 1 blotter is certainly nothing to worry about.
 
acid and shrooms are very different drugs.
While either one can be used as one's entry into psychedelic drug use, shrooms are generally considered "gentler" psychologically. My first psychedelic was LSD and I had a wonderful experience.
I think the important thing is to take a moderate dose and have a proper set and setting whichever drug you try.
Be with good friends, in a laid back environment, and don't do it in a depressed mood.
As always, more information can be found at www.erowid.org
Pure
------------------
What is freedom? I don't know anymore. Its something so far removed from anything I've ever experienced that I'm not sure I can even comprehend it. Make Freedom A Reality
http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum31/HTML/000557.html?reload=0
 
LSD and mushrooms can be quite different. A low dose of mushrooms or weak ones is somewhat comparable to acid.
A high dose or just strong mushrooms is WAY beyond the acid experience. It's very spiritual and much more rewarding. Shrooms are also one of the few drugs that you can take and you'll feel like brand new the next day.
Here's an example of shrooms. One time I took some and went on a walk through a park. It looked beautiful like I was walking through the Garden of Eden. I felt utterly connected to the trees and felt like I understood unlinear time and could feel the knowledge of the earth. The visuals were cleaner and my whole body felt enchanted. Not to mention I was just laughing and was in one of the best moods of my life.
Acid is cool.. but the visuals are usually more distorted, not to say they can't be more than enjoyable. I definantly liked the way music sounded on acid better than any other drug. But it's a stimulant and leaves you feeling wirey and worn out afterwards. And while you can get great revelations, it lacks that mystical quality.
Then again, with shrooms, the potency can be incredibally random. If they're really dry and brown, they will most likely be weak. You want to look for shrooms with almost orange caps and you want them to be somewhat soft. If they're really crunchy to wear they're crumbling, I wouldn't bother. And in particular you want shrooms that have some blue coloration at the bottom of the stems, that's an indicator that they're fresh, and fresh is always better.
If they're good, you probably only need half an 1/8th. If they're really dry and brown and look like they were picked a long time ago, I'd go with an entire 1/8th.
So all in all, I'm recommending the mushrooms if you can get them. But if not, by all means try the acid if you want to trip.
And I don't believe either one will prepare you for the other.
Also, don't take mushrooms and acid at the same time. The acid always overpowers the shrooms. It's a very intense trip, but you'll lose all the spiritual qualities of the mushrooms and sort of waste the shrooms.
I've found the same applies for acid and peyote. Weed and opium are the only natural drugs that mix well with synthetic ones in my opinion.
 
Hey, someone needs to reeducate me:
I was under the impression that mushrooms could be kept for a long period of time if they were 100% dried and kept at a comfortable temprature. If this is the case, why would "brittle" mushrooms contain less psilocibin? Isn't this just a function of the drying process rather than the age of the mushroom?
Also, I was under the impression that the "blue" was actually bruising, and not a way to tell how "fresh" a mushroom is. Can someone clear my misconceptions up then?
 
avatarolt, I don't think shrooms can be kept all that long. Psilocybin tends to be a rather delicate molecule and can degrade easily. I believe after a few weeks the potency can plummet. As for the blue, that is evidence of degradation of psilocybin (which can caused by bruising)...it is not evidence of freshness (however, there could be a correlation that I'm not currently seeing).
PlurredChemistry, I think whether you should try acid or shrooms first is a dependent on the person. Unfortunately, you really can't figure which one you should try first without first trying both of them to compare so it's a little catch 22 situation. I tried shrooms first and I now think I would have been better off trying acid first. At that point I had only smoked pot before and I didn't really have comprehension of what shrooms would be like. There tends to be a popular notion in the general populace that because shrooms are natural that they are not as "hard" of a drug and that the experience isn't as intense. It was precisely this notion that made me ill-prepared for my first experience. Had I taken acid, at least I would have known that I was in for a ride.
 
I belive there are some innacuracies in some of the posts above...
Whenever i buy mushrooms i look for certian things....
I personaly like my mushrooms dry, the dryer the better. I look for blueness in the mushrooms, because the more colour there is in your mushrooms means the more poisionious the mushrooms are, which means the higher you get. Some people prefer to eat stems, some people like to eat caps, but i personaly prefer the bottem of the bag...all that dust, i prefer the dust because it is so much easyer to weigh. for your first time on mushrooms i would say get 3 grams...just to be sure you will trip. thats how much i did my first time and it wigged, it was so much fun...but dont be a wuss and only eat one gram, thats just gay, and rememeber, you cant die eating majic mushrooms, you would have to eat your boddy weight to die off of mushrooms, so that means you can eat like 20 pounds and not die
------------------
I dont like the drugs.
The Drugs Like Me.
-M.M
 
Aftermath, speaking of inaccuracies...there's one in your post. While I agree that it is extremely rare to have serious harm from psilcybin mushrooms, it is by no means impossible to die to from overdosing on them. About a half year ago, I read an article about someone who died from an overdose on them. This occured in France and a full autopsy was performed including an analysis of the partially digested mushrooms and an analysis of the shroom patch that they reportedly originated from. The shrooms were found to have been correctly identified and the person who died had not consumed any other drugs in conjunction with the shrooms. If I remember correctly, the person starting having trouble breathing and by the time he reached the hospital his respiration had ceased. To the best of my knowledge this is the only reported death attributed to correctly identified shrooms but it still shows that it is possible. I'll try and see if I can dig up the article again and repost it.
 
*sigh* Again, I went and did the research myself, and here's what I found:
Once the mushrooms are dry, place them into airtight containers and protect from light. Some psilophiles grind the mushrooms, if you do so, weight the outcome. It is very hard to tell how much of a dose there is if the mushrooms are dried and ground. Some mix the dried and chopped or ground mushrooms with honey. Be sure to use a brand that hardens once cooled. Place in refrigerator. Note that mushrooms containing only psilocybin keep their psychoactivity much longer than those containing psilocybin and psilocin or only the latter. Evidently the psilocin breaks up easily and needs refrigeration to be preserved. I have never had to preserve mushrooms over a year so I wouldn't know exactly, but if stored properly the mushrooms stay psychoactive for at least a year
That's from the shroomery's main FAQ. http://www.shroomery.org/findorgrowthem.php?View=docs&doc=82
That links to a "how to" on preservation for up to 3 and a half years with no loss of potency (although how that's measured other than personal opinion, I don't know) Everything I've read suggests *not* to heat for preservation, however. I'd use natural drying methods (like the tupperware + dessicant method) instead. http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml
There's a fun one using CO2.
Hey, here's the point, folks: You're perpetuating a myth. Dry crunchy shrooms, if dried *properly* are just as good as wet squishy shrooms. Also, I'm reasonably certain that the blueing of the mushrooms doesn't indicate anything except for the fact that they've been bruised. Most mushrooms that contain psilocibin (but not all mushrooms that blue contain psilocibin and not all psilocibin containing mushrooms blue -- if you don't know exactly what you're picking, don't pick anything except for picking up PF Tek or some other moron-proof method) will blue when handled. The amount of blue doesn't tell you the amount of "poison."
Incidentally, I was under the impression that too *much* blueing may represent mishandling of the mushrooms when they were picked. This might have an effect, but I can't look through all the grow guides -- I'm off to a party.
 
Aftermath, the article stated the amount but I cannot remember how much it was for sure...if I remember correctly it was around an ounce not 40 pounds...of course a whole ounce is still a lot. I conceded that this is a rare occurrence but everyone should be aware that nothing is without its risks.
avatarolt, I am absolutely certain that the blueing is caused by psilocybin degradation (oxidation). Go ahead and look that one up...I won't bother because it's been discussed here a number of times before and it's pretty rudimentary and common knowledge. As for the honey method you posted, that is correct...honey acts as a preservative and will keep shrooms for extremely long time periods (it works kind of like amber does in storing fossils). As for storing/drying shrooms, I think the issue here isn't how long "properly" dried/stored shrooms will last but rather how long "ordinary" dried/stored shrooms will last. The problem is that most shrooms aren't properly dried and stored.
 
woohoo, I found the article:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/5257/Story/story_fatal-report.html
------------------------------
Fatal Psilocybe Case
GERAULT A., PICART D. 1996 - `INTOXICATION MORTELLE A LA SUITE DE LA CONSOMMATION
VOLONTAIRE ET EN GROUPE DE CHAMPIGNONS HALLUCINOGENES. Bull.Soc. Mycol. France, t. 112, p.1-14
`FATAL POISONING AFTER A GROUP OF PEOPLE VOLUNTARILY CONSUMED
HALLUCINOGENIC MUSHROOMS.'
Summary
The authors report the fatality of a 22-year-old man after he and a group of friends voluntarily
consumed hallucinogenic mushrooms, in this case Psilocybe semilanceata (Fr. : Fr.) Kummer.
According to the best of our knowledge, up to now, this cosmopolitan species had never caused any
fatalities, this is the first observation of this type ever made in the world, so the so-called
innocuousness of hallucinogenic mushrooms is now questioned.
INTRODUCTION:
From the pre-Columbian period on, 2,000 years ago, hallucinogenic mushrooms have been worship in
Central America. During the Spanish conquest, this cult was known as TEONANACALT. the soothsayers
consumed hallucinogenic mushrooms in order to communicate with the Gods and to get information
about their patients diseases, how to treat them... Nowadays, it has almost disappeared from Mexico.
This mushroom cult was studied by Wasson (37), Heim identified and cultivated the concerned species
(10, 11, 12), which enabled Hoffman to isolate and identify the active components. Those are
derivatives from serotonin or from 5-hydroxytryptamin such as psilocin (4-hydroxy-N,
N-dimethyltryptamin). More recently, related derivatives were identified : baeocystin
(4-phosphoryloxy-N-methyltryptamin) and norbaeocystin (4-phosphoryloxy-N-tryptamin) (18). Many
amines are also found in these mushrooms, but in smaller quantity. Very little is known about their
biological properties (1, 17).
Whereas the religious and medical use of hallucinogenic mushrooms has disappeared, the recreational
use is increasing. Nowadays, there is a marked increase in the use of hallucinogenic mushrooms
everywhere in the world and especially in the United States, Great Britain and in Australia (27). Many
popular scientific works were written about hallucinogenic mushrooms, sometimes with a printrun of
100,000 or more ! (21, 25, 34, 35). In order to avoid any harvesting problems, some companies
openly (if not legally) propose the equipment, the techniques and even the spores in home growing
kits.
Recently, several URL's and electronic bulletin boards which are totally dedicated to the subject were
created on Internet, where everything is possible. In France, this phenomenon is not so severe,
probably because of the regulations forbidding the harvesting of hallucinogenic mushrooms that were
published in the latest mycological issues. However, the song `Mangez-moi' (eat me) which openly
encouraged such harvesting was quite successful on the radio before being subjected to restrictions.
CASE REPORT:
The facts we relate here are based on statements made by persons who took part in a `mushroom
party'. The state prosecutor opened an inquiry and two questioning took place, one made by the
`gendarmes', the other by judicial policy officers. The first questioning was made the following day,
but obviously, the participants did not have a fresh mind. The second was made a few days later to get
more precise information, which was not easy as it dealt with the consumption of hallucinogenic
drugs. We will only sum up the facts that are important for the reasons and understanding of this fatal
poisoning. According to the paragraphs L626, L627, L628 of the French `Code de la Santé publique', no
names or places will be cited hereafter.
M. A., a 22-year-old man living in Finistère (France), decided on the 29th of September 1993, to spend
the afternoon harvesting hallucinogenic mushrooms in the damp fields of the area. According to his
friends, he was used to harvesting. He was also used to drinking alcohol and smoking cannabis on a
regular basis. He was penniless and his usual cannabis dealer had just been arrested, subsequently,
mushrooms were an easy substitute. He left home at 1:30 p.m. and came back around 6:00 p.m. to
meet some friends of his in their usual bar. They said he was already high on drugs as he had eaten
on-site an unspecified number of raw mushrooms. He felt dizzy, suffered from abdominal cramps and
had difficulties in breathing. His friends noticed that he was pale, he sometimes sweated abundantly
and he behaved as if he was drunk. Despite this alarming symptomatology, he took a dozen of
mushrooms out of his bag and ate them in front of his friends, inviting them to share the remaining
mushrooms boiles in tea. Four of them accepted to do so. They boiled the tea at 8:30 p.m. using 20 to
40 mushrooms. This tea was shared and rapidly caused different effects depending on the persons,
which is common in this type of poisoning.
M. B., 20 years old drank half a cup of it and felt euphoric within 30 minutes, followed by a state of
drunkenness and a loss of his balance. He started vomiting, which slightly improved his state. He
admitted he had drunk 15 beers earlier that day. M.C. 36 years old drank one cup and ate 2 or 3 raw
mushrooms. One hour later, he started feeling drunk and had colored visions. M. D., 24 years old, did
not remember the quantity he had ingested but he said he had drunk a few beers earlier. He only felt a
little drunk. M.E., 20 years old, drank one cup and felt in a drunkenness state one hour later, followed
by paresthesy and cramps in her legs. As for M. A., the victim, the participants had different opinions.
Some said they had not seen him drinking, others said that he joined them and drank the tea. This
opinion, approved by a majority of them seems to be the right one. Each participant finally admitted
that they felt restless, euphoric and voluble at the end of those libations. Around 10:00 p.m., M.A. felt
somnolent and lay down. His breathing was irregular. His friends thought he was totally drunk or had
gone on a bad trip, because they could not make him stand up and realized he had urinated in his
trousers. They only started worrying at midnight, when after some convulsions and spasms, he
stopped reacting to their calls and fell in a coma. Realizing that this was very serious, they drove him
to the hospital but unfortunately, there were no emergency services ! Around 2:30 am; he was taken
home, he was still unconscious. The duty doctor was finally called. In vain, he tried to resuscitate him,
he could do nothing but certifying that the fatality has occurred. Given the circumstances of the
fatality, a judicial inquiry was ordered and a postmortem examination was made to determine the
cause of the fatality.
TOXICOLOGICAL ANALYSIS
We have looked for the usual toxins in the blood and urine samples, in the kidney and in the liver.
Blood, urine and gastric content : The GC analysis of ethanol, alcohol and other volatile substances was
negative. Barbiturates, benzodiazepins, tricyclic antidepressives, paracetamol, cannabinoïds, opiates
and cocaine were not revealed in the urine by an immuno technique (EMIT) and salicylates by
colorimetric technique : negative. Carbon monoxyde, paraquat and chlorinated solvents were negative,
so was the amanitins of methanol extracts from the gastric content by TLS. The detection of blood
cholinesterases was normal. Thus, it can not be a organophosphorated pesticide poisoning. Finally, we
tried to systematically detect foreign substances in the body by HPLC and mass spectrometry. Nothing
was detected on acid, neutral and basic extracts.
Kidney and liver:
A fragment of each organ was hydrolyzed by `subtilisin',. The obtained liquid was extracted from acid,
neutral and basic environment by dichloromethan. After an azote controlled evaporation, the dry
residue was extracted by methanol. The organic extracts were analyzed by HPLC and mass
spectrometry. No abnormal substances were found.
Study and measurement of hallucinogenic indolic components:
This was performed on methanolic extracts from the gastric content, blood and hydrolysats from
kidney and liver. We tried to detect halucinogenic indolic components and especially psilocybin and
psilocin. Psilocybin rapidly hydrolyses in the body to create psilocin which is the biologically active
substance. This hydrolysis is performed in the ratio 100 / 72, depending on each molecular weight. We
found psilocin but no psilocybin, not even in the gastric content, which confirmed the rapid hydrolysis
because of the high acidity of the gastric juice. HPLC was the method used to determine the
quantification combined with fluorometric detection since mass spectrometry is less effective on this
kind of chemical because the weight spectra show a very low density molecular ion (5, 15, 16, 33, 36).
A psilocybin standard was used for the quantification. The psilocin was extracted through the
hydrolysis at 37°C of this psilocybin by alkaline phosphatase in pH 7 Tris 1M buffer overnight.
Results :
- blood : 4 micrograms/ml of psilocin - gastric content : only trace amounts of psilocin, which were
not easily measurable because of all the impurities we could not correctly eliminate. - kidney and liver
: failed because of an unidentified chemical interfering with psilocin
Nothing found in the literature could help us interpreting these results. Furthermore, the blood used
was drawn 36 hours after the death, thus, the results can not be applied to the living. However, this
proved that psilocybin containing mushrooms were ingested.
MYCOLOGICAL IDENTIFICATION OF THE SPECIES IN CAUSE :
Macroscopic study :
This study failed because we could not find the mushrooms that were used for the tea. The witnesses
described the mushrooms as being : Little Brown Mushrooms with a long slender stipe, some of them
presented the papilla which is necessary to recognize an hallucinogenic psilocybe. The victim, who
harvested them himself, used to pretend he was familiar with `Psilos' ! But in fact, he only knew one
species, Psilocybe semilanceata which he had been harvesting for years for his personal use. On the
day of the gathering, the harvesting was especially good and after having consumed some of them raw
on-site, M.A. wanted to share his discovery with his friends. Only four of them accepted. They were
reluctant but curious to taste hallucinogenic mushrooms. The species they described corresponded to
Psilocybe semilanceata, which we had frequently found on this station.
Microscopic study
It was performed on the gastric content drawn during the postmortem examination. The content
exhibited no fragments visible to the naked eye. The study with the microscope did not exhibit any
fragments bigger than 200 micrometers. Colored preparations were made using different dyeing
reagents : ammoniacal red Congo, cotton blue, and METZLER reagent There were no evidences of
cystidia or chrysocystia, only a few basidia 4-spored and hyphae with clamp-connections were found.
The spores were not cyanophilic, metachromatic or amyloidic. The gastric content was centrifuged
after the adding of water and diethyl ether in order to gather more spores. On the centrifugation
pallet, which were rich in spores, we made the following observations : Smooth and ellipsoid spores of
a purplish brown color (mounted in water and ammonia 10 ), thick walled of about 1 micrometer,
size: 11.5-14 x 7-8 micrometers, and having an apical germ pore. A GIEMSA dye showed binucleate
spores. We did not observed any spores different from those described above, which proved that only
one species of mushrooms was ingested, at least just before the fatality or before pumping the
stomach.
We did not notice any mushroom spores belonging to species known for their hallucinogenic
properties, such as Panaeolus (Fr.) Quélet and Hypholoma (Fr.) Kummer. The observed spores belong
to the families of Strophariaceae Singer and Smith and of Bolbitiaceae Singer, known for having
numerous species that are very potent in hallucinogenic indolic components (14,32). We do not think
that standing in the acid environment of the stomach or being cooked could have modified their size
or their aspects as they are very resistant. Considering the reported facts, the presence of psilocin in
the blood and the gastric content of the victim, and the above observations, we do think the victim
had consumed Psilocybes belonging to the Semilanceata Guzmàn section (= Tenaces Singer).
The most likely species being here Psilocybe semilanceata (Fr.: Fr.) Kummer. By reading the
mycological literature, we noticed differences in the sizes of the spores given by the authors. : 15 x 7
micrometers (2); 12-16 x 7-8 micrometers ( 24), but a majority indicates smaller spores : 12-14 x 7-8
micrometers (9); 12-14 x 7-8.5 (14); 12-14 x 7-8 micrometers (38). To solve this problem, we
measured the macroscopically typical spores of a sample from our herbarium and that were gathered
neat the place where the victim had harvested his. We measured the following average lengths :
12.5-14 x 7-8 micrometers, which are the same as those of the spores found in the gastric content of
the victim.
According to WATLING (38), the European consumers who ingest hallucinogenic mushrooms as a
recreational means often confuse three species on-site : Psilocybe fimetaria (Orton) Watling with
spores of 11-14 x 6.5-8.5 micrometers; Psilocybe semilanceata (Fr. : Fr.) Kummer with spores of 12-14
x 7-8 micrometers and Psilocybe callosa (Fr. : Fr.) Quélet (= Psilocybe strictipes Singer and Smith).
In this particular case, it can not be Ps. callosa, whose spores are smaller or Ps. fimeteria because of its
rarity and its particular habit in Brittany, where only a few of them can be found, unlike Ps
semilanceata that can be gather in large quantity. These observations lead to the conclusion that
Psilocybe semilanceata is the cause of this voluntary group intoxication and of the fatality.
DISCUSSION:
This fatality, probably the first of this kind, that occurred after the consumption of Psilocybe
semilanceata leads to several hypothesis. The postmortem examination results did not reveal any
severe diseases or any organic causes related to the death. The victim was apparently healthy. A
mushroom poisoning is highly probable since no other toxins were found. The inadvertent
consumption of toxicological species causing severe amatoxin muscarine poisoning and red blood cell
damage can not be considered since the symptomatology is different. Furthermore, no amatoxins were
found in the gastric content and the postmortem examination did not reveal any hemolytic syndromes.
The possibility that people with little experience had misidentified the mushrooms is correctly
expressed in popular scientific works about hallucinogenic mushrooms (21, 22, 25, 34, 35) and it is
especially well described on the Internet (a, b). the American public is especially warned against three
amanitin species : Galerina venenata A.H. Smith; Galerina autumnalis (Peck) Smith and Singer and
Pholiotina filaris (Fr.) Singer which can be found in France where other Amanita species exist, some of
them also bear hallucinogenic indolic compounds.
Finally, all Cortinarius of the Dermocybe subtype are said to cause late renal failure, especially in the
United States where a number of hallucinogenic species grows in the woods. A poisoning of this type
was reported by RAFF (29). These information documents also warn against dangerous mixing which
increase the adverse effects of hallucinogenic indolic compounds. The simultaneous consumption of
alcohol and of other drugs can lead to `bad trips'. Some types of medicine are also inadvisable as a
lethal effect is possible. The victim had not drunk alcohol and he was not on drugs, he was not treated
with MAOI and blood analysis had shown no medicines. This voluntary poisoning belongs to the same
category as those usually observed with hallucinogenic mushrooms (20, 31). PEDEN (26) who studied
44 cases that had led to hospitalization, determined their symptomatology : nausea, abdominal pains,
enuresis, hyperreflexia, violent or on the opposite, sleepy euphoria and unrestness, pain in the lower
limbs, parasthesia, mydriase, tachychardia and hypertension. The reported symptoms in this
observations are serious and concern only the people who were hospitalized because of adverse
effects. It should be added that every hallucinogenic mushrooms consumer does not necessary show
any physical or psychic disorders as some of them appear to resist to this type or drugs or are not
very sensitive to it. This conveys how diversified people's reactions are when faced with this type of
intoxication. Testing pure psilocybin on man also proved that the psychic and psychological effects
were very different from one volunteer to another (23).
It shall also be noted that adverse reactions are relatively proportional to the dosage. In our case, the
symptoms described were observed on the people who had taken part in the `mushroom party', but
the victim exhibited the most alarming of them. A medical examination would have been necessary to
report mydriase, tachycardia and hypertension, but we can suppose that they were present, at least by
some of the participants. PEDEN did not report any fatalities but medical cares were provided to every
in-patient, they had a lavage and this had always brought out many fragments of mushrooms.
However, BUCK (4) reported a fatality after the accidental consumption of hallucinogenic mushrooms.
A 7-year-old child died after convulsing because he had ingested mushrooms. The case was reported
by most of the popular scientific works about hallucinogenic mushrooms. This fatal outcome was
caused by Psilocybe baeocystis Singer and Smith. It is the American `potent mushroom'. The higher
toxicity of this mushroom is due to the presence of baeocystin and norbaeocystin which has a bad
reputation in the United States where its use is inadvisable. Furthermore, a severe poisoning with
paralysis of the lower limb, convulsions and hypersudation was reported by YOKOHAMA in Japan (39).
An intensive medical care enabled the patient to recover. It was imputed to Psilocybe subcaerulipes
Hongo. It emerged from these observations that pain in the legs or even paralysis of the lower limb,
convulsions and hypersudation are symptoms which must draw the attention on this kind of poisoning
as they reveal its gravity. They impose an emergency hospitalization, which was not the case in the
fatal poisoning we report here. We also noticed in the toxicological literature an analogy between
severe or lethal poisoning with Hypholoma : Hypholoma fasciculare (Huds. : Fr.) Kummer in
particular, whose severe or even sometimes lethal poisoning presented the same symptoms : pain in
the lower limb, cramps, convulsions, hypoglycemia and psychic disturbances. The toxic substances
which are in cause are nor well-known. Some of them would have some cytotoxic properties. We
considered the possibility of the consumption of some Hypholoma species, especially those that can
be found in Finistère in places where Psilocybe semilanceata grow. Those are Hypholoma elongatum
(Pers, : Fr.) Kummer ; Hypholoma ericaeoides Orton and Hypholoma subericaeum (Fr.) Kühner. We did
not detect any spores of these species in the victim's stomach content.
Eventually; since the species are never present in large quantity, they could not have been found in a
sufficient amount mixed with Psilocybe semilanceata to cause a severe poisoning. Considering all
previous observations, an overdose in hallucinogenic indolic compounds may have caused the fatality.
We will examine this problem according to the data available in the literature. The treatment by
psilocybin was dropped because of the important variations in the individuals' sensitivity to psilocybin
and the adverse effects. The dosage to be taken by mouth was 4 to 8 mg for an adult (23), the
maximum dosage being 150 micrograms/kg. it is rather delicate to transpose this dosage in
`mushrooms' since there is not only psilocybin but also some other active indolic compounds which
can cause agonistic or antagonistic effects, not to mention the possible presence of other more or less
toxic mushrooms. We have found numerous data about the amount of indolic components obtained in
hallucinogenic mushrooms. They vary significantly according to the species, which is obvious, but they
also vary in the same species!
An American study proved that the active component contents can vary in the same species from a
factor of 1 to 4 for the cultivated ones and from 1 to 10 for those growing in the wild (a, b). This
`biovariability' constitutes such an important risk for the consumers that some people proposed to
sale hallucinogenic mushrooms freely after having identified them and checked their content in active
components. This method has the advantage of protecting the consumers from troubles. We have
picked up the following data related to Psilocybe semilanceata from different papers. (In percentage
from the weight of the dry mushroom) (1, 5, 16, 33, 36, a, b)
Psilocybin. : from 0.1 to 1.6 per cents Psiloci : from 0 to 0.6 per cents Baeocystin : from 0 to 0.6 per
cents Norbaeocystin : from 0 to 0.4 per cents
Some variety can bear up to 2 per cents of total hallucinogenic indolic compounds. Eventually, some
varieties of Psilocybe semilanceata are considered in the United States as being very `potent', their
toxic effects being attributed to their high contents in baeocystin and norbaeocystin. But no evidence
were scientifically proved since the physiological properties are not well-known.
If we consider that the average content of active indolic compounds makes up to 1 per cents of the
weight of the dry mushrooms and that a dry Psilocybe semilanceata weights around 200 mg, then, this
species bears approximately 2 mg of psilocybin. Thus, 5 of these mushroom are necessary for a `trip'.
This is what the followers of the `mushroom cult' propose by setting the dosage to 5 to 10
mushrooms for `small trip', and to 20 to 40 for a `big trip'. The maximum dosage to avoid a `bad
trip' is 60 mushrooms. Thus, the previous calculation gives 120 mg of active components to be related
to 150 mg of psilocybin, considered as likely to cause dramatic toxic effect to an adult. It shall also be
noticed that, in the body, psilocybin hydrolyses in psilocin which is really potent and that 150 mg of
psilocybin give this way 108 mg of psilocin. Consumption of up to 200 mushrooms were reported
(26), but in this case like in any other in which more than 80 mushrooms were ingested, vomiting had
greatly reduced the actually ingested dosage and consequently, the toxic effects. In the case we report
here, the victim had probably ingested the mushrooms in three intakes : in the afternoon, an
undetermined number raw in the fields, in the early evening, a dozen of raw mushrooms and in the
evening, a glass of mushroom tea. This last dosage only, which was the equivalent of 4 to 8
mushrooms, caused some effects to the other participants, and this proves that the mushrooms were
highly potent in active components. The victim had probably ingested a large quantity of mushrooms,
at least 50, most of them raw which appears to preserve or increase their activity. He did not vomit
and exhibited every symptoms of a severe intoxication caused by an overdose. As there were no
appropriate medical care, this voluntary intoxication ended up in a fatal outcome.
CONCLUSION:
We have reported the case of a fatal poisoning after that a group of people voluntarily consumed
hallucinogenic mushrooms. These were fresh Psilocybe semilanceata (Fr. : Fr.) Kummer. The victim had
ingested them three times on the same day and exhibited every symptom of a severe poisoning caused
by an overdose. Left with no medical care, he died from this poisoning. The so-called innocuousness of
hallucinogenic mushrooms is now questioned. A part from common psychic disorders, hallucinogenic
mushrooms, like any other drugs, can have deleterious effects caused by an overdose. Thus, the
prohibition of harvesting, peddling and sale of mushrooms which are said to be hallucinogenic is
justified
BIBLIOGRAPHIE:
(1) BEUNG M.W., BIGWOOD J. 1981. Quantitative analysis of psilocybin and psilocin in Psilocybe
baeocystis (Singer & Smith) by hight-performance liquid chromatography and by thin-layer
chromatography. Journal of Chromatography, 207, 379-385.
(2) BON M. 1988. Champignons d'Europe occidentale. Arthaud. 368 p.
(3) BORNET A. 1980. Intoxications par champignons autres que l'Amanite phalloïde. Thèse de
Doctorat en Médecine. Zurich. 295 p.
(4) BÜCK R.W. 1961. Mushroom poisoning since 1924 in United States. Mycologia 53, 537-538.
(5) CHRISTIANSEN A.L., RASMUSSEN K.E. 1983. Screening of hallucinogenic mushrooms with
hight-performance liquid chromatography and multiple detection. Journal of Chromatography, 270,
293-299.
(6) FLAMMER R. 1980. Differentialdiagnose der Pilzvergiftungen. G. Fisher Verlag. 92 p.
(7) GERAULT A. 1976. Les champignons toxiques et hallucinogènes. Thèse de Doctorat es-Sciences
Pharmaceutiques Rennes. 311 p.
(8) GOTTLIEB A. 1976. The psilocybin producers guide. How to produce 5000 doses of organic
psilocybin in a small room every week. ( Repris dans Internet 1995 a.)
(9) GUZMAN G. 1983. The genus Psilocybe. Beiheft Nova Hedwigia. Lubrecht et Cramer. 439 p.
(10) HEIM R., WASSON R.G. 1957. Culture pure et obtention semi-industrielle des Agarics
hallucinogènes du Mexique. C.R. Acad. Sci. Paris. 245, 597-603.
(11) HEIM R., WASSON R.G. 1958. Les champignons hallucinogènes du Mexique. Arch. du Muséum
d' Histoire Naturelle. Paris. 322 p.
(12) HEIM R. 1963. Les champignons toxiques et hallucinogènes. Boubée. 328 p.
(13) HEIM R. 1965. Substances indoliques produites par les champignons toxiques et
hallucinogènes. Bull. Méd. Légale. 8, 2, 122-129.
(14) KUHNER R. 1980. Les Hyménomycètes agaricoïdes: Agaricales, Tricholomatales, Plutéales,
Russulales. Etude générale et classification.N. S. Bull. Soc. Linnèenne de Lyon. 49 ème année. 1027 p.
(15) KYSILKA R., WURST M., PACAKOVA V., STULIK K., HASKOVEC L. 1985.
Hight-performance liquid chromatographic determination of hallucinogenic indoleamines with
simultaneous UV photometric and voltametric detection. Journal of Chromatography, 320, 414-420.
(16) KYSILKA R., WURST M. 1989. Hight-performance liquid chromatographic determination of
some psychotropic indole derivative. Journal of Chromatography, 464, 434-437.
(17) LEUNG A.Y., SMITH A.H., PAUL A.G. 1965. Production of psilocybin in Psilocybe baeocystis
saprophytic culture. J. Pharm. Sci. 54, 1576-1579.
(18) LEUNG A.Y., PAUL A.G. 1968. Baeocystin and norbaeocystin: new analog of psilocybin from
Psilocybe baeocystis. J. Pharm. Sci. 57, 10, 1667-1670.
(19) McCAWLEY E.L., BRUMMET R.E., DANA G.W. 1962. Convulsions from Psilocybe mushrooms
poisoning. Proc. West Pharmacol. Soc. 5, 27-33.
(20) McCORMICK D.J., ABVEL A.J., GIBBONS R.B. 1979. Nonlethal mushroom poisoning. Annals
of Internal Medicine. 90, 332-335.
(21) MENSER G.P., TATELMAN D., SMITH M.B. 1984. Magic mushroom handbook: hallucinogenic
& poisonous mushroom field guide. Homestead Bk. 140 p.
(22) MILLS P.R., LESINSKAS D., WATKINSON G. 1979. The danger of hallucinogenic mushrooms.
Scott. Med. J. 24, 4, 316-317.
(23) MULKEY D. 1972. Psilocybin. Texas Medicine. 68, 87-91.
(24) MOSER M. 1978. Kleine Kryptogamenflora. Die Röhrlinge und Blätterpilze. Band IIb/2. G. Fisher
Verlag. 532 p.
(25) OSS O.T., OERIC O.N. 1976. Psilocybin, magic mushroom growers guide. A handbook for
psilocybin enthusiasts. Quick Am. Pub. 63 p., ( 100 p. reprint 1986.)
(26) PEDEN N.R., PRINGLE S.D., CROOKS J. 1982. The problem of psilocybin mushroom abuse.
Human Toxicol. 1, 417-424.
(27) POLLOCK S.H. 1975. The psilocybin mushrooms pandemic. J. of Psychedelic drugs. 7, 1, 73-84.
(28) POLLOCK S.H. 1977. Magic mushroom cultivation. Univ. of Texas, Austin.
(29) RAFF E, HALLORAN P.F., KJELLSTRAND C.M. 1992. Renal failure after eating "magic"
mushrooms. Can. Med. Assoc. J. 147, 9, 1339-1341.
(30) SCHULTES R.E., HOFMANN A. 1993. Les plantes des Dieux. Editions du Lézard. 192 p.
(31) SCHWARTZ R.H., SMITH D.E. 1988. Hallucinogenic mushrooms. Clin. Pediatr. Phila. 27, 2,
70-73.
(32) SINGER R. 1975. The Agaricales in modern taxonomy. J. Cramer Vaduz. 912 p.
(33) SOTTOLANO B.S., LURIE I.S. 1983. The quantitation of psilocybin in hallucinogenic
mushrooms using hight performance liquid chromatography. J. of Forensic Sciences, 28, 4, 929-935.
(34) STAMETS P. 1978. Psilocybe mushrooms & their allies. Homestead Book Co Berkeley.
(35) STEVENS J., GEE R. 1977. How to identify and grow psilocybin mushrooms. Sun Magic Press.
Seattle.
(36) VANHAELEN-FASTRE R., VANHAELEN M. 1984. Qualitative and quantitative determinations
of hallucinogenic components of psilocybe mushrooms by reversed-phase hight-performance liquid
chromatography. Journal of Chromatography, 312, 467-472.
(37) WASSON R.G. 1988. The wonderous mushroom: mycolatry in Mesoamerica. McGraw, 178 p.
(38) WATLING R., GREGORY N.M. 1987. Strophariaceae and Coprinaceae pp. British Fungus Flora
Agarics and Boleti. Vol. 5. Royal Botanic Garden. Edinburgh.
(39) YOKOHAMA. 1973. Poisoning by a hallucinogenic mushroom Psilocybe subcaerulipes Hongo.
Trans
SOURCES INTERNET:
(a) Teonanacalt, Food of the Gods; home page:
http://www.hyperreal.com/drugs/psychedelics/mushrooms/teonanacatl/teonatoc.html
(b) FAQ-Psilocybe-Mushroom:
http://www.hyperreal.com/drugs/psychedelics/mushrooms/misc/FAQ-Psilocybe-mushroom
(c) Mycological resources, home page: http://www.igc.apc.org/mushroom/rsrc.html
(d) Mycelium Welcome, home page: http://www.igc.apc.org/mushroom/welco.html
(e) Fungi perfecti, home page: http://www.halcyon.com/mycomed/fppage.html
(f) The World-Wide Web Virtual Library: Mycology:
http://muse.bio.cornell.edu/taxonomy/fungi.html
(g) Fungus: http://www.ntjeff.com/fungi/
Addresses of the authors:
Alain GERAULT. Laboratoire de Chimie Océanique, ESPSHOM, 13, rue du Chatellier, BP 426, 29275
BREST cedex. e-mail : Alain.Gé[email protected] fax : 98 22 18 64
Daniel PICART. Equipe DRED : Régulation Moléculaire du Métabolisme de l'Alcool et des
Xénobiotiques. Faculté de Médecine, BP 815, 29285 BREST Cedex. e-mail : [email protected]
ADDENDUM:
Some details have not been developped in this issue. They are shown hereafter:
Gone on his own to gather mushrooms in the fields, he consumed 30 to 50 of them, raw, right in
the fields, around 3:00 pm.
He consumed around 10 raw mushrooms around 6:00 pm.
With some friends of his, he consumed cooked mushrooms around 8:00 pm. The quantity
ingested by each participant of the "shrooms party" was estimated to 5 to 10. The other
participants, who had not consumed any mushrooms earlier in the day got "high" with this
quantity, some of them did even feel adverse effects : cramps, drunkeness...which proves that
the Psilocybe semilanceata variety was particularly potent.
Conclusion after the postmortem examination by the forensic expert: The death is due to a
collapse after an overdose. Our personal conclusions are:
The death is due to a combination of unfavourable and aggravating circumstances :
Three intakes of mushrooms in short intervals with cumulative effects ( I have estimated the
number to 50 mushrooms, but it is probably more).
In this case, raw mushrooms certainly increase the toxicity.
No vomiting (vomiting is common when the intake of mushrooms is too important, it is a good
defensive reflex of the body which prevents from a severe poisening. The vomiting could be
caused by baeocystin.)
Variety of very potent P. semilanceata, containing an important amount of total indolic
components. According to my personal analysis psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin are present
and also many other unidentified derivatives. Studies are in progress in my laboratory. In this
specific case, we can not reason in terms of psilocybin because a synergy between the different
components is to be considered.
Absolute lack of medical care, and maybe a weak resistance of the victim, he was left several
hours in the coma. Cares in hospital would certainly have saved the victim.
It is actually an unusual case about shrooms' consumption (but not in toxicology where fatality
or severe injuries are reported in some cases with substances that are not said to be very toxic.)
I would add that the accumulation of several unfavourable circumstances is necessary.
Unfortunately, all of them were gathered in this dramatic case. The nil risk does not exist,
especially about natural stuff with changeable properties.
A. GERAULT
Ph. D., Toxicologist.
HTML by: Magic Mushroom
Made possible by: Lycaeum Drug Archives
Trip Stories - Home
 
Wow so many things
biggrin.gif

Then again, with shrooms, the potency can be incredibally random. If they're really dry and brown, they will most likely be weak. You want to look for shrooms with almost orange caps and you want them to be somewhat soft. If they're really crunchy to wear they're crumbling, I wouldn't bother. And in particular you want shrooms that have some blue coloration at the bottom of the stems, that's an indicator that they're fresh, and fresh is always better.
Really dry and brown, they'll be weak? Most mushrooms are brown, and most mushrooms you buy are dried
smile.gif
.... Dry mushrooms are best when they are bone dry, if they are totally bone dry you can store them for years with no loss in potency. Fresh isn't necessary better, yes there is more potency since there is some loss when drying, but its not a big loss... If you eat 3grams dry you have to eat 30 grams wet to get a similar effect.. So some people don't like eating fresh since you have to each much more.. Personally I don't care
biggrin.gif

Also, I was under the impression that the "blue" was actually bruising, and not a way to tell how "fresh" a mushroom is. Can someone clear my misconceptions up then?
Bluing is bruising, its not an indicator how how potent it is, but an indicator of that the mushrooms is psychoactive.. I belive how quickly it bruises is a more accurate way to indicate potency, but in some mushrooms this just isn't the case.
The most important thing with mushrooms is that you pick them right when the 'veil' breaks or shorty after. If the cap is totally opened and has dropped its spores the potency is way down.. A lot of growers/pickers want size, since they sell in grams not potency
wink.gif
... So you get all these 'big caps' in your bag and you think its great.. Not necessarily.. Potency depends on when its picked, and how they are dried.
I look for blueness in the mushrooms, because the more colour there is in your mushrooms means the more poisionious the mushrooms are, which means the higher you get.
Like I said before, the blueness only indicates that the mushroom has magic in it
smile.gif
Its not a great indicator of potency. Liberty caps in Iceland that I used to hunt never bruised at all, and those little bastards are so damn strong... 2 grams was like taking 4 grams of a normal cubensis.
As for the french case, its definately interesting.. They do say in the report that they think this is a strange case. I think this was just a freak incident, I've taken this type of mushroom many times, and I know that its very potent.. But to kill a man, even 28 grams seems unlikely..
I think it was probably a combination of things, don't forget they had to draw a conclusion from this strange case, its very possible that there was something else that contributed to his death... Not to mention that had he been near a proper hospital he would have likely lived. Interesting read however
smile.gif

------------------
Webmaster of the Shroomery
www.shroomery.org
[email protected]
 
Do the ACID first.
way better in my opinion.
Once here someone said That shrooms made them feel like they were inside of a plant brain.
That's why I like acid, u can think with a million different perspectives.
and stuff
 
Hey, here's the point, folks: You're perpetuating a myth. Dry crunchy shrooms, if dried *properly* are just as good as wet squishy shrooms. Also, I'm reasonably certain that the blueing of the mushrooms doesn't indicate anything except for the fact that they've been bruised. Most mushrooms that contain psilocibin (but not all mushrooms that blue contain psilocibin and not all psilocibin containing mushrooms blue -- if you don't know exactly what you're picking, don't pick anything except for picking up PF Tek or some other moron-proof method) will blue when handled. The amount of blue doesn't tell you the amount of "poison."
Here's what I know:
Everytime I've gotten crunchy dry non-fresh shrooms, they've either sucked or just been okay. I never knew where these were grown or picked.
Everytime I've gotten ones picked within a weak that have bright orange caps and are bright blue at the bottom of the stems have taken me on some of the most incredible trips you could ever imagine and with only half an 1/8th every time. They were also all picked from pastures, not homegrown.
So probably you're right and the weaker shrooms were probably improperly stored. And I was under the impression that the blue went away after a while so that's why I used it as an indicator of freshness.
But I've found a pattern of what will lead me to incredible experiences every time, so I'm going to keep going with it myself.
 
Everytime I've gotten ones picked within a weak that have bright orange caps
Bright orange caps??? That doesn't sound like any pcilocybin mushroom... Maybe your mistaking the colour? Bright orange sounds particularily wrong, do you have pictures of these mushrooms? What colours are the spore prints?? Are you picking these, do you see them fresh?
------------------
Webmaster of the Shroomery
www.shroomery.org
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by Thor_Shroom (edited 05 August 2001).]
 
Bright orange caps??? That doesn't sound like any pcilocybin mushroom... Maybe your mistaking the colour? Bright orange sounds particularily wrong, do you have pictures of these mushrooms? What colours are the spore prints?? Are you picking these, do you see them fresh?
They were picked by friends off of pastures from Florida and Louisana. There was another time which happened to be the best ones I ever got that were also picked wild, but I did not ask where from.
At any rate, perhaps "bright orange" was the wrong way to put it. Definantly not like Amanitas or anything. Perhaps "distinct orange" would be better. Say a mix of orange, cream and tan.. but a more orangish appearance than anything.
And they looked exactly like numerous pictures I've seen of p. cubensis and like homegrown ones from small jar colonies.
 
Top