Gyno treatment

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Hello,
So I was on 250 test EW and 20mg nolvadex EOD for 12 weeks, gyno was becoming serious so I came off. My pct was 40mg nolva ED for 2 weeks, followed by 20mg for 2 weeks. Gyno was still the same, so I decided to do another 4 weeks at 20mg ED, and a month later I did another 4 weeks.

So that's 2 weeks at 40mg followed by 10 weeks at 20mg and gyno is still there! (I used real AstraZeneca nolvadex)

I am on 20mg doxepin ED and 50mg sertraline ED (which AFAIK inhibits the metabolism of tamox, so that may be why it didn't work well)

My options are :
Nolvadex 30x20mg for 15$
Generic tamoxifen 30x20mg for 8$
Femara 30x2.5mg for 300$
Femaplex (generic letro) 30x2.5mg for 104$
Arimidex 28x1mg for 200$
Generic anastrazole 30x1mg for 120$
Exemestane arrow (generic) 30x25mg for 110$

All are legit pharmaceutical grade products. I will obviously use the generic versions from now on... I wanna spend as little money as possible.

So my question is : will 2.5mg letro ED for 4 weeks be enough? What about 1.25mg ED for 8 weeks?
If letro doesn't work... what next?

Thanks
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...the original poster no longer wishes to be associated with this thread...
 
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Forum Moderator said:
Hello,
So I was on 250 test EW and 20mg nolvadex EOD for 12 weeks, gyno was becoming serious so I came off. My pct was 40mg nolva ED for 2 weeks, followed by 20mg for 2 weeks. Gyno was still the same, so I decided to do another 4 weeks at 20mg ED, and a month later I did another 4 weeks.

So that's 2 weeks at 40mg followed by 10 weeks at 20mg and gyno is still there! (I used real AstraZeneca nolvadex)

I am on 20mg doxepin ED and 50mg sertraline ED (which AFAIK inhibits the metabolism of tamox, so that may be why it didn't work well)

So my question is : will 2.5mg letro ED for 4 weeks be enough? What about 1.25mg ED for 8 weeks?
If letro doesn't work... what next?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm unsure if normal principles of pharmacology and therapeutics apply to 15yr old schoolboys..? I don't wish to say "I told you so"..!! But we did try to dissuade you from jumping on AAS at such a young age...

Nolvadex is what an medical professional would recommend for proliferation of breast tissue in males... I've written extensively here about the mechanism of nolva and its place in gyno removal...

If your nolvadex hasn't effectively treated gyno symptoms, either your nolva is bunk, or its effects have been negated by other medication....
I note sertraline HCL's interaction with enzymes CYP2D6, CYP3A4, therefore a potential to negate effects of nolva and effect plasma concentrations of estradiol...

If contemplating health issues like gyno, cost shouldn't be an issue over quality, stick with legit pharma nolvadex.. Drop the anti-depressants...!!
 
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Thanks GF, what about letrozole ? Sertraline shouldn't affect it. Unfortunately I can't drop my medication, I really need it for my mental health, but I will try to stop the sertraline in few weeks.
What I would like to know is, should 2.5mg letro for 4 weeks do? I can afford doing 8 weeks if it's really necessary.
 
Agreed nolva will remove pregyno and gyno issue.

You will hear otherwise on many forums, but as GF has attested to, i too can validate that I have helped treat dozens of my clients with directing them to nolva for gyno.

It can also remove exisiting gyno..to what degree is individual..but i will even have my guys run 40mgs ED for 2-4 weeks. It works 100% of the time in every case I have seen..with that being said..in some guys it reduces it by 20%..others 50%..some 100%...everyone will respond differently..but it will work to some degree.
 
flyhighk said:
Thanks GF, what about letrozole ? Sertraline shouldn't affect it. Unfortunately I can't drop my medication, I really need it for my mental health, but I will try to stop the sertraline in few weeks.
What I would like to know is, should 2.5mg letro for 4 weeks do? I can afford doing 8 weeks if it's really necessary.
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Hi Fly'... I've explained nolva's unique action via its differing affinity at ER-a and ER-b, making it ideal for treating gyno issues... Letro knocks out estrogenic response via its action on aromatase, but it doesn't work like nolva...

Peter Van Mol has an education background in biochemistry and molecular biology, otherwise known as Big-Cat, he has done extensive research into the effects and treatment of gyno, this is what he has to say about nolvas interaction at ER and what makes nolva unique in treating gyno:

The alpha receptor causes proliferation of cells, the beta receptor inhibits proliferation and increases differentiation, or the maturing process into a fully functioning cell. So when estrogen increases proliferation starts, and when it reaches a certain threshold more binds to the more abundant beta receptor slowing proliferation and increasing differentiation. This is relevant because though tamoxifen also binds the beta receptor it does so with less affinity than estradiol and its unclear as to whether it activates or blocks the beta receptor. The net result is that proliferation is halted by tamoxifen’s negative effect on the alpha receptor, but estradiol is left in circulation to activate the beta receptor. The beta receptor offers us several benefits, but here specifically it will further inhibit proliferation (tissue growth) and increase differentiation. Terminal differentiation aborts the proliferative capacity of a cell. So each cell that terminally differentiates is one more cell that won’t be replicating. These cells now await apoptosis (cell death) at the hand of androgen-mediated action..

One thing I do want to impart on people is that tamoxifen treatment must continue for some time to be effective. Too often tamoxifen is reported to be ineffective for acute treatment because it isn’t used sufficiently long. tamoxifen inhibits the growth of breast tissue, but does not reduce it on its own. This is mediated by your androgen levels as a male and an AAS user. These cells do not dissolve, they are ultimately destroyed by genomic signals. This takes some time. On top of that early cessation risks rebound effects. tamoxifen does not address circulating estradiol so early cessation will only lead to estradiol immediately binding ERalpha again, and barring any changes, starting problems all over again. Longer treatment with tamoxifen reduces ERalpha density (2), which only further promotes the beta-receptor mediated positive effects. It’s perfectly possible for tamoxifens effect to become visible after cessation, no doubt this is one primary reasons why treatments prescribed by quacks are sometimes deemed effective : they are administered at the time the cells are being destroyed, so that to a lay person it may seem that the medication is actually reducing his gyno. If ACTUAL tissue shrinks within days, its probably not what you are on right now, so if you took something because you thought tamoxifen did not work, and “it cleared up in three days” (I’m not kidding, I hear this stuff every day) its likely it was the tamoxifen and not the other drug.
If it turns out you are prone to gyno (early onset of gyno with testosterone only at moderate doses) you can always opt to make the needed changes in the future (preventive treatment with an AI or a SERM)....

Fly'... you need to taper off the sertraline HCl + doxepin, if only long enough to destroy the gyno... You are 15yrs old, you shouldn't be relying on anti-depressants at your age, you need to seriously consider dropping them permanently... What greater incentive have you got at the moment, you've got man-boobs at 15...!!!

The only serious option you have of getting rid of them permanently is to use nolva, and nolva won't work effectively in conjunction with antidepressants...

When the gyno is gone, the biggest buzz you will get as a male is from testosterone at your age, testosterone won't work effectively via its estrogenic interaction with antidepressants...

Goodluck and choose wisely..!!!!
 
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I had read your explanation in the other thread. I'm 16 now, and my gyno is barely noticeable through my shirt, but still. I can't get off the sertraline now, or I would isolate myself at home with severe depression. I am planning to try getting off the sertraline during the summer, and will run nolva at 40mg for 8 weeks. Hopefully that will work.
 
Youre 16 and you have bitch tits because you feel the need to use hormones at this stage.
 
Steroid use is a personal choice, yes it may stop me from getting taller, and may do permanent damage to my hpta, but I'm okay with that.
 
I couldn't agree more about it being a personal choice. However, at 16 it is an incredibly stupid choice. I know people who used it before they were developed and they all regret it. I guess it's your bad choice to live with thought. You can remind yourself that you chose it everytime you stare in the mirror and look at your bitch tits. And then think how much better your physique would look if you hadn't done that and didn't have to walk around with a pair of boobies. Quit before you do any more damage.
 
I personally think that's pretty bad, especially if you didn't have any before. You are off now but how long until you do another cycle? Anyway im outta of this thread its your business but yea if you were my son thats no chance in hell id be letting you do this shit... I would bet money that when you are older you will regret not having waited. but whatever, best of luck
 
black53 said:
Can you switch the sertraline with another SSRI?
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My sentiments exactly.. there must be something you can take, if even for the short term whilst on nolva....

Hey fly... Is that you in those pics..? The chubby pic on the left just looked to be too much BF, the right pic looked mostly ok if it maybe lost a bit more BF and put some muscle on..
 
black53 said:
Can you switch the sertaline with another SSRI?
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Genetic Freak said:
My sentiments exactly.. there must be something you can take, if even for the short term whilst on nolva....

Hey fly... Is that you in those pics..? The chubby pic on the left just looked to be too much BF, the right pic looked mostly ok if it maybe lost a bit more BF and put some muscle on..
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That's a good idea, but sertraline isn't the only SSRI that interacts with tamoxifen. Paroxetine and fluoxetine can inhibit 2D6 as well. I will definitely try switching to another antidepressant before starting tamoxifen again, or I will stop ADs altogether if I don't go crazy without them.
It's not me in those pics, but my nipples look the same.
AlmostFamous said:
Is this the kind of gyno you have?

http://forums.steroid.com/attachmen...sin-clomid-pubertal-gyno-reversal-7fgtdof.jpg
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Yes exactly, but my gyno is not pubertal, it only started when I started gear. My nipples were perfect before that.

Thanks guys.
 
I would imagine a decent drop in bodyfat and some nolva combined can really take care of that very effectively.

Also have you had bloodwork to see your levels?? If your still imbalanced, you could still see progression. First thing I would do if I were in your shoes is get some labs, maybe back to back months, or at least 2 labs, 2 weeks apart..for comparison purposes, to try and see some resemblance of a baseline.
 
That's a good idea, but sertraline isn't the only SSRI that interacts with tamoxifen. Paroxetine and fluoxetine can inhibit 2D6 as well. I will definitely try switching to another antidepressant before starting tamoxifen again, or I will stop ADs altogether if I don't go crazy without them.
It's not me in those pics, but my nipples look the same.
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I can't guarantee it would work, but if you can't find a SSRI that doesn't interact with tamoxifen (or come off the SSRIs), you can try some other SERM. There's a whole bunch of them and not all have to be metabolized by 2D6 before becoming effective. I'd look at those that act as antagonists in breast tissue and/or used to treat breast cancer. Those should be the most likely to work. The active metabolite of tamoxifen, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, is actually being studied now so some rc vendor somewhere might be selling it. Never seen it myself, but they sell all sorts of new things so it's possible...

There are anecdotal reports of letrozole reversing gyno but again I wouldn't call it a sure thing. It will however make you feel like shit while taking it because it'll reduce your estrogen levels to just about 0 and you kinda need some to feel ok.

Drostanolone may also help it was used to treat breast cancer before better drugs became available.
 
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