Grym's Diet Musings

GrymReefer

GrymReefer

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I'm currently working on a project atm and in the process of trying to establish other various mechanisms for the beneficial need to refeed/carb load after periods of carbohydrate restrictions along with your strenuous exercise regime....

I came across this...


Effects of depletion exercise and light training on muscle glycogen supercompensation in men

"In conclusion, a CHO-loading protocol that begins with a glycogen-depleting exercise results in significantly greater muscle glycogen that persists longer than a CHO-loading protocol using only an exercise taper. Daily exercise at 65% V̇o2 peak for 20 min can be performed throughout the CHO-loading protocol without negatively affecting muscle glycogen supercompensation."


Something to keep in mind for those who religiously practice cyclic ketogenic diets.

Considering the data..... I am beginning to wonder if extending the period at which you remain in a depletion state correlates to the maximal reuptake facilitated by the glycogenin protein for super compensation of glycogen storages.

Taking the time to achieve true depletion rather than a low carbohydrate consumption yields higher retention concentrations upon carbohydrate loading. However an overfeed in reference to the loading phase would not dictate the total glycogen storage concentration that is presented due to the glycogen/glycogenin feedback mechanisms.

Source: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/285/6/E1304.short


Glycogenin activity in human skeletal muscle is proportional to muscle glycogen concentration

“Glycogenin is also known to be complexed with glycogen synthase in skeletal muscle, and the relationship between the two enzymes may be important in controlling the rate of glycogen synthesis. Under resting conditions, no free deglucosylated glycogenin can be detected in skeletal muscle, indicating that all glycogenin is bound to glycogen (12). This may mean that there are no free stores of the protein available for the synthesis of additional glycogen molecules, and glycogenin may have to be synthesized as needed. This may explain why glycogen supercompensation under normal conditions can take days to complete. “

Source: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/278/1/E177

Considering glycogen supercompensation is not a hasted process and the threshold isn't completely determined before shunting into alternative processes for disposal and oxidation. Would a extended reloading process spanning over 30-40Hrs be more beneficial in the conversion rate of glucose>glycogen for immediate storage in comparison to a rapid feeding process within the 12-18Hrs one is awake during their designated reloading day?

I'm just seeing what anyone else thinks. The refeed process is important, but I'm beginning to wonder exactly what correlates a necessary carbohydrate intake to fulfill the drained muscles. Or I could be overthinking the whole thing. Maybe I'm just crazy and this doesn't make sense to anyone else!
 
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GrymReefer said:
I'm just seeing what anyone else thinks. The refeed process is important, but I'm beginning to wonder exactly what correlates a necessary carbohydrate intake to fulfill the drained muscles. Or I could be overthinking the whole thing.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you're getting deep into your research!

From the point of view of the most perfect supercompensation before a bodybuilding contest, you aren't overthinking it at all.

From the POV of what you're trying to achieve in terms of a 1-2 day refeed to truncate the catabolic state from a calorie restricted diet, that's probably where you need to focus on how vital (or relevant) each study is. You run the risk of getting lost in details of specific physiological processes, but losing sight of how they actually come together in vivo when different strategies are attempted on actual subjects.

As an example off the top of my head, glycogen supercompensation following depletion as a result of exercise can occur quickly (resulting in rapidly blunted insulin sensitivity), or you can stretch it out over (IIRC) 2 days (but maintain insulin sensitivity). Both supercompensate roughly the same I believe, therefore mechanisms in the body exist to achieve a certain level of glycogen from the prior state of depletion over both a short and expanded period of time.

But is one method more efficacious than the other in terms of maintaining LBM during the overall diet? This could impact on how acute or chronic your elevated consumption of carbs might be. FWIW I think the latest 'consensus' is that acute (<24hr) supercompensation (just like acute consumption of protein for MPS) is not vitally important.

Furthermore, is supercompensation strictly necessary at all (and if so, to what extent) in order to evoke that more anabolic/anti-catabolic environment? From studies on non-athlete female dieters in Iran, I seem to remember that essentially an incredibly unscientific 'eat what you life for 2 days' managed to maintain most of the LBM after a very controlled low calorie/carb diet, without provoking fat gain. I'm sure that can be improved upon in disciplined and trained athletes, but what does the science say about it (if anything)?


Perhaps rather than work in the SD Social, you could create a separate thread of your musings, and I'll merge these posts into it.
 
What is the significance of macronutrients?



Macronutrients- regards a group consisting of the 3 most important and abundant nutrients we consume on a daily basis. They are a necessity for the biological functions of growth, metabolism, and all other crucial bodily mechanics that sustain life. Macros consist of your protein, carbohydrates, and fats.


Calorie- a unit of measurement assigned to inform the given energy provision from a specific macronutrient. The macronutrients can be broken down into calories for more accurate measurement of energy.


Protein- 4 calories per gram


Carbohydrates- 4 calories per gram


Fats- 9 calories per gram


This conversion will aid in accurately recording caloric intake without over complicating the process. Besides attempting to record each individual calorie that is consumed. You record your macronutrients in grams which is later converted and used to determine overall caloric consumption.


Example: Protein-150G Carbohydrates-300G Fats-80G
(Protein=600 calories) (Carbs=1200 calories) (Fats-720 calories) Total caloric intake= 2520


*Alcohol is not considered a macronutrient as it is not a required nutrient needed for biological necessities. However the caloric contribution is 7 calories per gram.



"McKinley Health Center - Macronutrients: The Importance of Carbohydrate, Protein, and Fat - University of Illinois." McKinley Health Center - Macronutrients: The Importance of Carbohydrate, Protein, and Fat - University of Illinois. N.p., n.d. Web. 10 Sept. 2015.
 
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