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God was to be man’s slave. How did the reverse happen?

rickolasnice said:
Bringtherain..

By the definition of omniscient.. God already knows everything that is going to happen.. That includes who goes to hell..

Therefore God knew that Adam and Eve would take a bite of the apple and that the snake would be the one to tempt them.. He knew that he would be condemning billions of people to hell.. who those people were / are / are going to be and when it's going to happen.

God, being the omniscient fella he is, know what choices and what actions we are going to make.. therefore.. he created us knowing we're going to hell.
Click to expand...

Well put and accurate.

You might understand most of what follows.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.


It was God's plan from thebeginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can bedemonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucifiedfrom the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucifyJesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damnedsin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but wasrevealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build intothe Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for aproblem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the diewas cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when therewas absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have doneto women. They have denied them equality and subjugatedthem to men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related

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Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in thefall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices thatcaused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Freewill is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone wouldwant to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). Anexplanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerableto being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat aforbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the firstplace. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with anature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a responseto this problem.


If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we wouldhave at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am aGnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated.Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explainwhat I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. Theseare unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent todo evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete orcooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created.Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are eithercooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see thatwhat Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what wehave, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is howthings are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as wecompete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

----------------------------

Evolutionary theology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9

 
Evil is a human construction.. it only exists in some form or another because it goes against our empathetic nature.. which evolved as a means to secure the survival of the species (or survival of certain DNA patterns, anyway)..
 
rickolasnice said:
Evil is a human construction.. it only exists in some form or another because it goes against our empathetic nature.. which evolved as a means to secure the survival of the species (or survival of certain DNA patterns, anyway)..
Click to expand...

Exactly. That is survival of the fittest. The inadvertent goal of evolution.

To take out competition and only use our empathetic natures would mean that we give the other the resources and then our DNA line would go extinct. If I happen to be the fittest then my empathy has weakened the whole of the human race.

I agree that evil is a human construct but we cannot help but do evil if we are to have the fittest survive.

That is also why God would be a real prick if he punished us for being and doing exactly what he wants of us.

Regards
DL
 
But when testing tensile strength for instance of materials, until they fail, is that being a prick? Maybe not the best analogy. Or even on the right page. The stress can be seen as punishment. But maybe it helps God fulfill God's plan, some way.
 
This entire premise does not make sense from the basic formation of God. Which I ironically would not start with the church fathers, because there was mythology and power before religion. I would start with the child's conception of God. The mediator of a moral quandary is The Big Other/God in the child's mind the child may ask "WWJD" but this is only the child's mind making the decision with some fictional mediator. Neither the child nor God is slave nor master. For the child and God are the same --they are the the same in their difference.
 
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What 23 said:
But when testing tensile strength for instance of materials, until they fail, is that being a prick? Maybe not the best analogy. Or even on the right page. The stress can be seen as punishment. But maybe it helps God fulfill God's plan, some way.
Click to expand...

And maybe not.

Regards
DL
 
Shrooms00087 said:
This entire premise does not make sense from the basic formation of God. Which I ironically would not start with the church fathers, because there was mythology and power before religion. I would start with the child's conception of God. The mediator of a moral quandary is The Big Other/God in the child's mind the child may ask "WWJD" but this is only the child's mind making the decision with some fictional mediator. Neither the child nor God is slave nor master. For the child and God are the same --they are the the same in their difference.
Click to expand...

We are all God WIPs

http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Regards
DL
 
What 23 said:
But when testing tensile strength for instance of materials, until they fail, is that being a prick? Maybe not the best analogy. Or even on the right page. The stress can be seen as punishment. But maybe it helps God fulfill God's plan, some way.
Click to expand...

It makes no sense but lets let it pass as an imaginary part of God's plan.

Real bright that. Not.

Regards
DL
 
Shrooms00087 said:
This entire premise does not make sense from the basic formation of God. Which I ironically would not start with the church fathers, because there was mythology and power before religion. I would start with the child's conception of God. The mediator of a moral quandary is The Big Other/God in the child's mind the child may ask "WWJD" but this is only the child's mind making the decision with some fictional mediator. Neither the child nor God is slave nor master. For the child and God are the same --they are the the same in their difference.
Click to expand...

Highlighting incomprehensible statements do not make them comprehensible.

Regards
DL
 
The child and God are the same in that the child is thinking of God and how God would perceive his/her actions. This is how are they are the same, in that they cannot be different. However, one child's Idea of God and how to solve a moral quandary is going to vastly differ for each child's fantasy of God. So they are the same, in that they are different (for each person).

The only Tyrant is in your mind.

Godspeed.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
The child and God are the same in that the child is thinking of God and how God would perceive his/her actions. This is how are they are the same, in that they cannot be different. However, one child's Idea of God and how to solve a moral quandary is going to vastly differ for each child's fantasy of God. So they are the same, in that they are different (for each person).

The only Tyrant is in your mind.

Godspeed.
Click to expand...

We do not see babies and children thinking the same way.

Check this out and see that there is no God involved. Just instincts to survive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Regards
DL
 
Exactly. They do not think the same way. This makes the nature of God incomprehensible. Whether or not there is a God is a moot point. He exists in the mind as a fictional mediator of implied (and interpreted) morals.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
Exactly. They do not think the same way. This makes the nature of God incomprehensible. Whether or not there is a God is a moot point. He exists in the mind as a fictional mediator of implied (and interpreted) morals.
Click to expand...

Saying that God cannot be understood is like saying man cannot be understood.

Man created God in his image and man can and will eventually understand himself.

Even the ancients knew this and that is likely why they have A & E becoming as Gods in Genesis.

Gnostic Christians have also know this for a long time. We know that man is supreme here on earth.

Regards
DL
 
Saying that God cannot be understood is like saying man cannot be understood.
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The second you try to understand God is the second you're in His presence. You'd only end up understanding yourself better.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
The second you try to understand God is the second you're in His presence. You'd only end up understanding yourself better.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It begins there as you are the most honest reporter of reality that you will ever know.

When you can call God I am and mean you is when you begin to know God. Just not the miracle working bible God.

Jesus asked,--- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods, ---- and most people have.

Regards
DL
 
A quote from Peter Deunov:

"God makes the greatest sacrifice. He has to be in constant activity. If he was to rest for just one moment the whole of Creation would collapse."

(I personally imagine this to be an ecstatic kind of activity, though).
 
I'm pretty sure it's here before us, smarter than us, requires unquestioning faith because we're all mental retards by comparison, and life is actually a million times more comfortable since the divination of montheism.

Whether all of the bible is authentic, or if jesus actually happened, or happendedid, all we see is the superhuman hallucinations which corroborate the corroboratable.
 
Ninae said:
A quote from Peter Deunov:

"God makes the greatest sacrifice. He has to be in constant activity. If he was to rest for just one moment the whole of Creation would collapse."

(I personally imagine this to be an ecstatic kind of activity, though).
Click to expand...

If God is ecstatic about creating these then he is the vilest ecstatic God around.



Regards
DL
 
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