Gibberings CLXII - Animal Facts Fun Time

[swampdragon]

Agreed, mdb! And the more time I spend around clubbing/hippy types, the harder it is to remember that's not usually the mainstream way of life.

And tis a beautiful day and I've just resigned, which makes me very happy.

 

[Inflorescence]

I have always said and stand by my belief that there is no such thing as 'normal', and that nothing should be perceived in terms of absaloute-black and white. Even psychiatry is flawed based predominantly on white middle class ideas and ideals..what happens to those that don't fall into that category?

And there speaks the voice of someone who is on day 6 or 7 of drug freeness...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[plmar]

I have always said and stand by my belief that there is no such thing as 'normal', and that nothing should be perceived in terms of absaloute-black and white. Even psychiatry is flawed based predominantly on white middle class ideas and ideals..what happens to those that don't fall into that category?

And there speaks the voice of someone who is on day 6 or 7 of drug freeness...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Nothing is normal.

 

[Sammy G]

I have always said and stand by my belief that there is no such thing as 'normal', and that nothing should be perceived in terms of absaloute-black and white. Even psychiatry is flawed based predominantly on white middle class ideas and ideals..what happens to those that don't fall into that category?

If they don't fall into any 'category', generally there aren't any problems to speak of. Or at least not enough to have a huge impact on the individual's life. And psychiatry's far more flexible than it was even ten years ago, y'know?

Agreed, mdb! And the more time I spend around clubbing/hippy types, the harder it is to remember that's not usually the mainstream way of life.

And tis a beautiful day and I've just resigned, which makes me very happy.

Wow! Go you. If that's what you wanted, which going by your posts it was. That takes guts.

I must say though, it ain't a beautiful day in Piccadilly / Ardwick.

 

[plmar]

^ Piccadilly in London, right?

It's sunny today so I imagine there's a huge crowd of tourists up there right now, or people in general really.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I remember you mentioning your intention to resign on the new years resolution thread Swampy. Well done, it either takes a lot of guts or desperation to do that. It's clearly the former in your case.

 

[Sammy G]

^ Piccadilly in London, right?

There's a Piccadilly in London?

 

[Inflorescence]

If they don't fall into any 'category', generally there aren't any problems to speak of. Or at least not enough to have a huge impact on the individual's life. And psychiatry's far more flexible than it was even ten years ago, y'know?

If that is your experience Sammy then I am seriously very glad to hear it. Up untill a few years ago I worked in a part of London where there are reportedly up to 300 languages spoken in that particular borough ..you can imagine that the religious and cultural difference can be all consuming and overwhelming to try and fully understand and comprehend from the point of psychiatry and in fact any other person from a different cultural, religious background.
There are and were some excellent forward thinking and as you say flexible psychiatrists for sure but there were still enough archaic older psches working, diagnosing and 'ruling' and judging under outdated culture that I mentioned.I have seen some barbaric treatment by psychiatrists in the past. Pleased to know that this is seemingly changing with time.

 

[Sammy G]

I can imagine that a vastly diverse ethnic / cultural mix can complicate matters. Then again, I've never seen a psychiatrist whose background was anything like mine, and I imagine that's pretty common (as far as the NHS goes) right across the country.

Yes, like any profession, there are incompetent or even malicious individuals who are still in practice, but they're very much in a minority, and you aren't forced to continue to be treated by them.

I think psychiatry tends to get unfairly stigmatised, especially amongst druggies. Probably a hangover from all the sixties antipsychiatry nonsense.

You're far more likely to come across a rogue nurse, teacher or binman, all told.

 

[Chatative]

Yes, like any profession, there are incompetent or even malicious individuals who are still in practice, but they're very much in a minority, and you aren't forced to continue to be treated by them.

I think psychiatry tends to get unfairly stigmatised, especially amongst druggies. Probably a hangover from all the sixties antipsychiatry nonsense.

My views from experience:

I believe Psychiatrists these days are pretty good on the whole. I've only seen one... nice guy, seemed good at first but he just had a set list of things to ask me every check-up & didn't think to look for things he should have. So many aspects of how my medication, their side-effects etc. were handled was just poor really. I'm not sure if that is just how Schizophrenics are treated because even mental health professionals believe we are not capable of understanding our situation. I was, I had "insight" but the medication was so bad that eventually I wasn't capable of seeing what it was doing to me. It was two or three folks in the Mental Health part of this forum who suggested my medication was the issue & they were spot on.

On the positive side though, my initial appointment with a Nurse Practioner was extremely good but I only saw him twice for assessment before being passed onto the Psychiatrist.

I find the stigma & preconceptions surrounding mental illness that are rife in the medical community - GPs, Doctors & Nurses - is almost sickening. I know many people get mishandled by GPs with regards to anxiety & depression. That's not to say all the medical community has this problem, but it isn't a minority.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

How and why do you think GPs mistreat anxiety and depression?

Getting the antidepressants scripted out pretty damn quickly/ at the drop of a hat?

I was once asked the most ridiculous set of questions from a printed out 'diagnosis' questionnaire, the Dr clearly didnt give enough of a shit to even think of his own questions, so he just printed out a ten point questionnaire. At that point i had decided that i wanted to try ADs and so just gave what were obviously the 'correct' answers in order to obtain the script, which he would have probably denied me otherwise if i didnt score high enough on the 'test'.

 

[Sammy G]

I find the stigma & preconceptions surrounding mental illness that are rife in the medical community - GPs, Doctors & Nurses - is almost sickening. I know many people get mishandled by GPs with regards to anxiety & depression. That's not to say all the medical community has this problem, but it isn't a minority.

Wow. We must have experience of an entirely different medical community then!

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I won't comment on the treatment side of things becauseI'm not you and I don't know the full picture, but as for GPs 'mishandling' anxiety and depression, I think the majority do the best job they can.

If you mean 'most GPs won't give their patients benzos' then I have to say I agree with their reluctance to prescribe them. Benzos are a wholly inappropriate treatment for the majority of cases out there, and usually add to the problems of any individual who is prescribed them in anything other than the short term.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Dunno if Im In the middle of this or erring towards Chat's side but I have certainly witnessed an over-eagerness to hand our AD's at the drop of a hat - or maybe the bribe of a salesman who has been around that morning. I tend to think you hit lucky Sam with what you report and I'd be reluctant to hold that up as representative of the general GP populace.

I will declare an interest in finding an old school GP who is indeed prepared to hand out Valium to me as a short-term measure. His exact words are "this is one of the finest drugs going fornhandling short term anxiety and suffers from the abuse it was handed out by GPs in the 60's and early 70's."

I do have a GP who trusts me to have a brain in my head though.

 

[Sammy G]

I wouldn't say I hit it lucky exactly - it took the best part of twenty years to arrive where I am now, and it took some real damage to my life and my prospects before I was able to trust the medical community enough to accept the suggestion of a psychiatric visit, let alone diagnosis and treatment.

Ironically, it was my own 'I know better' and 'doctors are bad' mindset which drove me away from the only people who were in the position to help, and making a much bigger mess in the process.

 

[Chatative]

How and why do you think GPs mistreat anxiety and depression?

If you mean 'most GPs won't give their patients benzos' then I have to say I agree with their reluctance to prescribe them. Benzos are a wholly inappropriate treatment for the majority of cases out there, and usually add to the problems of any individual who is prescribed them in anything other than the short term.

The problem is Doctors are to quick to prescribe medication whether SSRIs or Benzos for anxiety or depression when the person has clear symptoms as SHM has said. There are many ways of dealing with anxiety moreso, but depression too, without using medication. Sure, if the anxiety is severe or long-term, then medication can be used... but as a last resort.

In terms of anxiety, things like your diet, exercising, Vitamin D & Magnesium can all make the world of difference & keep it at bay in most cases of mild or even moderate anxiety once it is under control.

I just see things from a certain perspective. I believe we have made a lot of progress since the 50s, 70s etc. in terms of the stigma associated with Mental Health problems but there is still a lack of understanding surrounding it, even within the medical community. It's not that they treat people badly but they do not fully understand what is going on & the best approach.

For example - prescribing Benzos will help reduce Anxiety but does not get to the cause. Things as I have said above as well as various forms of therapy including CBT are really the best way for people to get on top of their problems for good.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sammy G]

The problem is Doctors are to quick to prescribe medication whether SSRIs or Benzos for anxiety or depression when the person has clear symptoms as SHM has said. There are many ways of dealing with anxiety without using medication. Sure, if the anxiety is severe or long-term, then medication can be used... but as a last resort.

Obviously. But what's the alternative? Therapy? Maybe, but it's intensive and expensive.

Lifestyle / diet changes which the patient may or may not adhere to?

In terms of anxiety, things like your diet, exercising, Vitamin D & Magnesium can all make the world of difference & keep it at bay in most cases of mild or even moderate anxiety once it is under control.

So in reality, what exactly is the GP meant to do? They usually offer all this advice anyway.

It seems you want them to basically do nothing and tell the patient to (in not so many words) get on their bike. Yet at the same time they don't do enough?

 

[SandyFrank]

I wouldn't say I hit it lucky exactly - it took the best part of twenty years to arrive where I am now, and it took some real damage to my life and my prospects before I was able to trust the medical community enough to accept the suggestion of a psychiatric visit, let alone diagnosis and treatment.

Ironically, it was my own 'I know better' and 'doctors are bad' mindset which drove me away from the only people who were in the position to help, and making a much bigger mess in the process.

I hope my above post doesn't offend you in particular, given the pieces I know of what proper treatment can do for your diagnosis. It was more of a warning for people in my predicament who were shaped by things that happened in their life and not a pre-existing condition that is genetic and definitely requires treatment. Please accept my apologies if any of what I said came out as distasteful.

 

[SandyFrank]

The problem is Doctors are to quick to prescribe medication whether SSRIs or Benzos for anxiety or depression when the person has clear symptoms as SHM has said. There are many ways of dealing with anxiety without using medication. Sure, if the anxiety is severe or long-term, then medication can be used... but as a last resort.

In terms of anxiety, things like your diet, exercising, Vitamin D & Magnesium can all make the world of difference & keep it at bay in most cases of mild or even moderate anxiety once it is under control.

I just see things from a certain perspective. I believe we have made a lot of progress since the 50s, 70s etc. in terms of the stigma associated with Mental Health problems but there is still a lack of understanding surrounding it, even within the medical community. It's not that they treat people badly but they do not fully understand what is going on & the best approach.

For example - prescribing Benzos will help reduce Anxiety but does not get to the cause. Things as I have said above as well as various forms of therapy including CBT are really the best way for people to get on top of their problems for good.

Just my 2 cents.

Please see my long post if you're interested. Sounds like we may be in the same boat, condition wise. There is a very large gray area, and people should tread with caution in the cases of more ambiguous diagnoses or difficulties.

FWIW, 5-htp has been a lifesaver for me personally. Magnesium is good as well, but 5-htp pulls me out of depressive ruts effectively and relatively quickly,too. As in, a few days. Hope that is helpful.

 

[Sammy G]

I hope my above post doesn't offend you in particular, given the pieces I know of what proper treatment can do for your diagnosis. It was more of a warning for people in my predicament who were shaped by things that happened in their life and not a pre-existing condition that is genetic and definitely requires treatment. Please accept my apologies if any of what I said came out as distasteful.

Not at all. Relax.

I'm coming over all holier-than-thou here and I'm annoying myself. I just get all excited over these things I guess.

 

[SandyFrank]

Not at all. Relax.

I'm coming over all holier-than-thou here and I'm annoying myself. I just get all excited over these things I guess.

You're not holier than thou. I would never in a hundred years imply that. I wish to remain sensitive to the variety if reasons medication and psychiatry is needed or even essential. And you of all people have the right to express how it has benefited you. I'm not dismissing the success produced within the field or from patient/practitioner relations. I'm just warning those on the 'cusp' or going through a temporary situation to be careful or do their homework. Or not get pushed into things that could be detrimental in the long run. I wanted to make sure stories like yours weren't trivialized and were handled with respect.

And it's an issue I get worked up over, so relaxing is hard, but I'll try. To me, speaking about it helps if it can perhaps lead one person to think critically if they are in the same gray area as I was.