Ethnobotanicals Ghost pipe (Monotropa uniflora) - does anyone have any experience?

[G_Chem]

Grayanotoxins are produced by Rhododendron species and other plants in the family Ericaceae. Honey made from the nectar and so containing pollen of these plants also contains grayanotoxins and is commonly referred to as mad honey.

It's basically the same thing as mad honey. Same toxins. Definitely needs more research to consider safe as far as HR goes

While the input is appreciated, this is all info we’ve talked about extensively. I know they contain the same Grayanotoxins, hence my comparisons between the two.

On paper it’s the “same thing” but not all Grayanotoxins are as toxic as each other and there’s different amounts/ratios between Ghost Pipe and Mad Honey. Also as already stated, this is a plant with hundreds of years of herbal use. It’s likely been used much more than Mad Honey in America for a long time, yet we don’t see any deaths and hardly if any hospitalizations. It’s available from many herbal suppliers and has been.

I’m not just pulling this out my ass to say it’s ok for folks to try. You find me hospitalizations and/or deaths and I’ll gladly take back my statement. I looked, and if I recall found information stating there HASNT been any.

On top of Mad Honey and Ghost Pipe being from two different plants with different levels and ratios of Grayanotoxins, Mad Honey is.. Honey. I’ve done quite a bit of research on psychoactive honeys. Bio active substances found in honey are often in their more bioavailable aglycone form, also honey seems to be a “food matrix” which just in of itself improves BA. This is why many old drug formulations were done in/with honey.

With the honey you have what equates to an extract in comparison to raw Ghost Pipe plant. Also with high variability in the honey depending on bees collecting behaviors, droughts, time of year, etc you get a product that can’t be dosed reliably.

-GC

 

[Pfafffed]

Grayanotoxins are produced by Rhododendron species and other plants in the family Ericaceae. Honey made from the nectar and so containing pollen of these plants also contains grayanotoxins and is commonly referred to as mad honey.

It doesn't work like that, though. The presence of a chemical or class of chemicals in a family doesn't mean that all parts of all plant species in the family have that/those chemicals.

For example, members of the Cactaceae family (Lopophora williamsii and Echinopsis pachanoi) contain mescaline. Saying that members of the Cactaceae family contain mescaline is correct, not saying that all members contain mescaline is incorrect. The almonds from a given Prunus dulcis tree may or may not have the pro-toxin amygdalin in them depending on whether it's a wild type or cultivar, and that's the same species.

The presence of grayanotoxins in some species of rhododendron doesn't mean that its present in all parts of all rhododendrons, all rhododendron species, or definitely all members of family Ericaceae. If only phytochemistry were that straightforward.

 

[A Talking Worm]

This is a good point I forgot on. As someone that travels the woods often they only grow prolifically in certain rare climates. I’ve seen them maybe 3-4 times total in my life and always only 1-3 stalks.

The time I collected I only took 1 of the 2 stalks. I have heard stories though of people finding patches with maybe 50-100, but that’s like finding the holy grail.

-GC

The holy grail does exist, likely in multiple places around the world. The trick is timing. I was taking a few days to hike a small section of the Appalachian trail in Northeast US and found an area of several miles with patches springing up every 40 feet or so. I won't say what stretch exactly on this forum, out of concern for the plants. A good indicator you're in the right sort of place would be rich, mushroom dense soil, and prevalent cedars. Look a day or two after some intense rains - prepare to get muddy.

I harvested 1 or 2 stalks from each patch of 5-10 healthy looking shoots, severing clean at the base with a bush knife and not disturbing the surrounding earth and loam. All of the ones I saw were stark white, with some dark streaks of blackish purple.

I've come across similar patches on prior hikes- this time i was prepared to take some cuttings. The main thing that makes Ghost Pipe so tricky to harvest is its ephemeral nature. The plant itself exists in a complex mycorrhyzhal relationship and is almost entirely underground throughout its growth. It only seems to send up shoots after droughts and then periods of intense rain, of which we have had in abundance in the northeast this season. Temperature also seems to play a big role - I have come across them in most abundance from June through the beginning of October (in the northeast US), disappearing once the frost hits. Other areas may differ in seasonality.

I took 15 stalks from patches across several miles and immediately dunked them in some gin, around 250ml. We'll see how they turn out.

I agree with your point however, that overharvesting is a real concern that we should all take seriously. If you plan on harvesting, do so responsibly and sustainably, and always leave the majority for the next season.

 

[Didgital]

I am curious now as well. Someone recently sent me a "spagyric" ghost pipe tincture. I'm not doing anything tonight so I guess I'll try some and report back in next couple days.

I'm pretty skeptical about spagyric preparations but we'll see.

I also dont love the idea of consuming known toxins, but I will for science.

Edit: so i tried my tincture last night. Dosage wasnt clear on the bottle, and I really didn't want to poison myself, so I took about 1mL or 1/4 of a dropper. I had also eaten a 40mg THC gummy, about an hour before I took the tincture, which I slightly regret because maybe it obfuscated effects.

Before long, maybe 25 minutes after the tincture, I began to feel very relaxed. There might have been a slight trippiness, and while it seemed to be more than the THC, it is hard to tell for sure. What did seem out of the ordinary, is I fell asleep very easily, and I also woke up quite groggy, which with just cannabis I dont get.

I'll try a bit more at some point.

 

[daturetard]

If it doesn't contain grayanotoxins then what's the potential for it to be "psychedelic" or similar in high doses?

Sorry to necromance yet again, but I did want to say something about this. I feel like a lot of ethnobotanicals that are referred to as "psychedelic" by the historical peoples of an area, are generally those people's only point of reference for what a psychedelic is, therefore a lot of places did (and do) clasify tropanes as psychedelic, and while it's easy to look back at that and laugh, they are plants that cause hallucinations. Historically, people had no idea what a neurotransmitter or receptor was, let alone know what receptors are agonized or blocked by a specific drug. Also, the age of information has people kind of spoiled as to what they expect. A shaman using a plant for visions doesn't necessarily mean it'll give you a wicked trip, nor be any fun.
Also, I have a bit of experience with ghost pipe. It's good for sleep and I'm not super sure about pain. I just came back to a house that I had left for a while, to find the rubber top ring of the jar the tincture was in was somehow moldy. Plus it was one that you use the lever to close, and it somehow put too much pressure and some glass shards got in it, so I tossed the rest. Just went and picked a few for every decent patch I found, gonna make a tincture with everclear tomorrow.

 

[Pfafffed]

About how much do you use for sleep? It's been over a year since my buddy gave me some tincture, and I've never gotten around to testing it (or to sending it to Kykeon for analysis.)

 

[emkee_reinvented]

No, it's a plant, not a fungus. That's one of the cool things about it, it's a plant that looks and behaves like a fungus, but feeds off of both fungi and plants.

I would assume psilocybin mushrooms are toxic, too. And amanitas look toxic as hell, and some species are toxic as hell. But some aren't. For that matter, potato greens are toxic, but the roots are delicious.

Green Potatos [light exposure] are Toxic aswell as uncooked, maybe soaking a ammount of time might work on ridding Solanine. But whatever prep Potato is slightly toxic, the main reason you don t re-use the cooking water, like with grains, beans and lentils a.o.

Though these don t contain solanine offcourse, but enzyme inhibitors.
You don t wanna ingest unless necessary. So you soak em out.
Just like you should do with Nuts.

Smartass edit: there not roots like sweet potato, or carrots. Neither bulbs. but Tubers. Seems like little difference but it ain t.

Tip the taste of potatos is in the skin, so wash em don t peel,
and taste how they are for real. Mmm

On topic that blue/ purple hue is beatyful, wonder if it grows here.
Def sounds interesting, the effects and looks.

 

[Foreigner]

I'm a clinical herbalist and I have a lot of experience with ghost pipe. However, I won't give too much education because it is a very delicate plant, and also rare. I don't want it becoming popularized. It has extremely specific therapeutic uses, and all of the other crap that people claim it can be used for would be better treated with other plant medicines.

I use it almost exclusively to treat minor traumatic brain injury, concussions, and central nervous system neuroinflammation. It brings people down to earth quickly, after all else has failed. And no, that does not mean it should be used for psychotic breaks or other mental disorders where the person detaches from reality.

Nobody dies from taking ghost pipe, even in heavy doses. That is just big pharma spreading fear as usual, like they do about all herbs.

You need very little to make a tincture, and the tincture is required to preserve the medicine. The dried plant is useless. If you see a cluster of them, only pick one individual from the cluster. If you pick the whole cluster you will destroy the plant. It takes years for a healthy plant to grow. It requires very specific soil conditions, usually in an older forest. It is a delicate plant spirit. Please respect it.

 

[daturetard]

About how much do you use for sleep? It's been over a year since my buddy gave me some tincture, and I've never gotten around to testing it (or to sending it to Kykeon for analysis.)

I use 3-5 droppers full. It doesn't feel toxic at all, though subjective feelings are admittedly a low bar. I think its sweet and floral, my dad said "kind of sweet... then like an old shoe", lol.

 

[golego55]

For that matter, potato greens are toxic, but the roots are delicious.

Solanine is pretty interesting.