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Ethnobotanicals Ghost pipe (Monotropa uniflora) - does anyone have any experience?

Xorkoth

Xorkoth

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Joined
Feb 8, 2006
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In the mountains
My first encountering this plant, my friend had found some and made a tincture. Our friend was freaking out on DMT, it was his first blast off and he was stuck in a loop of shouting that he was dying and to make it stop. My friend rushed in and asked him if she could give him something to bring him down. He said yes, and she squirted a dropped of a purple tincture into his mouth. Within 10 seconds, he came out of the loop and his demeanor entirely changed, he was overjoyed at how something like DMT was possible, and it ended up being a very good trip for him, though he doesn't want to take that much again until possibly a future time when he has worked up slower.

I asked my friend about it, and she explained that it's a traditional folk medicine, a fairly rare plant that grows in the shade of trees, and can be used to take people out of trips. Naturally, I did my own research. What I found was super interesting. The link below is my google search... wiki also has some information. The second link is a PDF which is particularly interesting, but it won't let me post that link into a Bluelight post for some reason:


indian-pipe-plant-unique-beautiful-plants-flowers-1-6.jpg

Ghost pipe, or Indian pipe, is a parasitic plant that grows it roots among mycelium and tree roots, and feeds off of both. It looks like a fungus, but it is a plant,. At various times, it grows stalks above ground that spout flowers, but it does not photosynthesize, and the flowers droop to face the ground. It can be harvested and placed whole into vodka, and within a week it will turn the most crazy looking deep purple color, it is truly breathtaking:

IM8Tx9C.jpg

(This picture is with a light shining through it from behind, it looks much darker otherwise but it's hard to get a good photo that way, it just looks more or less black)
​
My reading mostly involves pretty hippied-out herbalist/homeopathy articles, as there is not a lot of info, but my experience with how it brought my friend out of his trip made me really think there is something here. I don't believe it has been studied to find out what it contains. There are persistent shared descriptions of what it can do:
  • Can be used as a way to deal with pain, both physical and emotional, but not by blocking pain; instead, by distancing yourself from your pain, as some have said, "allowing you to stand beside your pain and view it objectively without it causing suffering". Some people have used it to treat trauma where it allowed them to view their painful memories objectively and remove them from the immediacy of reliving the experience painfully​
  • It can be used to aid dream recall and vividness and sleep​
  • It can be used to bring people out of intense/aggravated states, including bad trips. The PDF article, written by a practicing herbalist (I think) who has patients and many years of experience, said that he, or maybe some colleagues, I can't remember which, were using it at festivals and events like that, to bring people who were losing the plot and a danger to themselves or others, right out of their trips and back into a calm state. It is said to work within seconds or minutes for this, which was my experience too, with my friend.​
Clearly, there is something interesting here. The literature, such as it is, suggests to start with 3 drops of a strong tincture. Overcome with curiosity (especially since I found my first batch last year... I found a second batch last week which is what re-prompted my curiosity), I took 5 drops last night. I was experiencing some jangles and scrungies due to being down to 0.5mg of suboxone, and also some fear because I only have 3 doses left before it's time to jump completely. It definitely did something, I felt a feeling wash through my body within 5 minutes, it was neither pleasant nor unpleasant, it just was, and was fairly pronounced. Kind of a warm feeling that I could imagine becoming dissociative in a way at a stronger dose, but not like an NMDA antagonist. It didn't do a lot for me at this dose though, I still felt uncomfortable. I took some clonidine after a while and got in bed to read. I was able to fall asleep and I had some vivid dreams, but nothing I don't sometimes get anyway, especially while sleeping lightly.

Anyway, I was hoping someone had some experience with this, or knowledge beyond what I discovered on google. Plus I wanted to be the one to start a cool enthobotanical thread where I am trialing it, instead of G_Chem having all the fun. ;)
 
Is anything known about its ingredients? I couldn’t find much through a quick Google search. I read somewhere that it contains salicylic acid but I have no idea if that is verified. Sounds pretty interesting though, a pity that it doesn’t grow in my country.
 
Mjäll said:
I see those a lot on the forest right now
Click to expand...

That;s cool, I rarely see them. Make sure it's the real thing, there are some related species that look similar and I can't attest to their safety. If it's ghost pipe, it will turn a vodka tincture solution that purple color. Look for the flowers, too. Also, I highly recommend (to anyone), an app called Seek, by iNaturalist. It's a free app, that uses your phone camera to identify any life form (plants, fungus, animal, insect, etc). I love it so much.

Psychestim said:
Is anything known about its ingredients? I couldn’t find much through a quick Google search. I read somewhere that it contains salicylic acid but I have no idea if that is verified. Sounds pretty interesting though, a pity that it doesn’t grow in my country.
Click to expand...

I read that too. I don't know of any scientific assessment of what it contains.
 
I have never seen that plant, or is it a fungi? If I saw it in a forest or growing I would assume it is toxic.

Ghost Pipe

www.fs.fed.us www.fs.fed.us

www.mayernikkitchen.com

Ghost Pipe - Monotropa uniflora | Mayernik Kitchen

Ghost pipes have several medicinal benefits. They have sedative antispasmodic, and diaphoretic effect. Ghost pipe is more inclined towards managing neuronal disorders like psychosis, acute anxiety, nervousness, irritability, restlessness, and convulsion episodes.
www.mayernikkitchen.com www.mayernikkitchen.com

 
No, it's a plant, not a fungus. That's one of the cool things about it, it's a plant that looks and behaves like a fungus, but feeds off of both fungi and plants.

I would assume psilocybin mushrooms are toxic, too. And amanitas look toxic as hell, and some species are toxic as hell. But some aren't. For that matter, potato greens are toxic, but the roots are delicious.
 
Yes I too actually have a tincture made up ready to consume (along with many other psychoactive plants/stuff lol).

It’s roughly the same effects as Mad Honey from what I’ve heard. The effects are mediated by Grayanotoxins. Known to be good for pain and sleep.

I’ll actually read this over later and write more, if you take it I will too ;) by all reports it’s fairly safe probably a safer substance than Mad Honey which is known for hospitalization but zero deaths in more modern medical days.

-GC
 
Where did you get this information about grayanotoxins? I haven't really been able to find anything other than it contains salicylic acid (which the paper, which was super hippied out, claims can calm every sort of pain, not just physical)

Shady's Fox said:
Shadowmeister is so gifted having access to all these literally unknown psychedelics for like 99 of average junkies ahaha
Click to expand...

I just found this one by foraging. Also I kinda like that you still call me my name I used to hide from my ex in my divorce.
 
“Ghost pipe is part of the family Ericaceae, which boasts an impressive family of plants, many of which produce Grayanotoxin.”

“Last post and the LAST time you will hear anything from me regarding the toxins in Monotropa Uniflora. (Ghost Pipe, Indian Pipe, whatever you want to call it.)

They are in the Ericaceae family, which also includes Rhododendron, Blueberry, cranberry, and more..

HOWEVER, they contain the SAME toxins as Rhododendron do.

Studies on Monotropa are few & far between, and it takes some time searching to find studies on it.
The toxins cannot be specifically measured, as they vary from plant to plant, cluster to cluster...therefore, these articles I found seem to explain these toxins as part of Rhododendron itself.

Sure there are plenty more, and better articles/studies on Andromedotoxin, Grayanotoxanes, etc..

Those who choose to use this plant should do so very judiciously.

The plant really shouldn't be used but some folks still choose to do so after all of Western medicine treatments have been thoroughly exhausted and NOTHING else works.

The toxins are nothing to play with...and sadly, more & more people are just carelessly tossing it in vodka and making tinctures with it.
While RARELY fatal, deaths have been known to happen with these plant toxins.”


I don’t necessarily agree with that second post completely..

Basically while there’s no conclusive studies it seems very possible Ghost Pipe contains Grayanotoxin. That said I’ve yet to hear (or remember) any problems with tinctures from this plants while if we compare to Mad Honey there’s many hospitalizations. This tells me Ghost Pipe is a much safer substance as it’s used by a fair number of people all the same.

I’ll say I’d use Ghost Pipe before Mad Honey and again feel it’s the safer of the two substances.

-GC
 
i dunno i've heard that some sort of honey bee is more intense than a NEO DMT trip but I can't recall the name as for right now all I know is that is part of our side of ancestors and they used it in ancient maya rituals such as people randomly having an "epilepsy" like episode while the eclypse is happening and this is just one of the few that makes you scratch your head and how they somehow predicted before anyone else there's 9 planets.. one being what's now called "Kulper Belt".
 
From "King's American Dispensatory", 1905. Looks like the root is used here.


BookReaderImages.php

Says to contain andromedotoxin, wikipedia says thats Grayanotoxin I:
"Grayanotoxins are a group of closely related neurotoxins named after Leucothoe grayana, a plant native to Japan originally named for 19th century American botanist Asa Gray.[1] Grayanotoxin I (grayanotaxane-3,5,6,10,14,16-hexol 14-acetate) is also known as andromedotoxin, acetylandromedol, rhodotoxin and asebotoxin.[2] Grayanotoxins are produced by Rhododendron species and other plants in the family Ericaceae. Honey made from the nectar and so containing pollen of these plants also contains grayanotoxins and is commonly referred to as mad honey.[3] Consumption of the plant or any of its secondary products, including mad honey, can cause a rare poisonous reaction called grayanotoxin poisoning, mad honey disease, honey intoxication, or rhododendron poisoning.[3][4] It is most frequently produced and consumed in regions of Nepal and Turkey as a recreational drug and traditional medicine.[5]"

"When grayanotoxin is present, binding induces further conformational changes that prevent sodium channel inactivation and lead to a prolonged depolarization. Owing to its transient ability to activate channels and increase membrane permeability to sodium ions, grayanotoxin is classified as a reversible Nav1.x agonist.[6]"

So it may contain a voltage gated sodium channel agonist.


perhaps more for historical interest here is the chemical analysis from a report published in 1889

I spent a lot of time in the woods as a kid and these seemed extra magical to me, they weren't mushrooms but didn't seem like plants either, and they would appear suddenly out of nowhere. That purple color is amazing
 
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Super interesting.

I have got kind of ichy feelings the first time I have seen the photo of the plant. It´s like a body reaction calling me to be very cautious, as this plant is toxic...

More research is needed but if you can really cut a bad trip from 2-3 drops of this tincture I would say is quite useful. At the end the dosage makes the venom.

So sure, pretty interesting and powerful stuff. Curious that it has like 100 years listed in old literature and it is pretty much unknown even to drug geeks as us.
 
I just looked and there is not a single report of death or hospitalization from the use of Ghost Pipe. On the contrary there are many for Mad Honey. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say this plant is safe to try in cautious doses. I’ll likely give my tincture a try here soon if no one else does, the purple color seems inviting lol.

Hexagon Sun said:
Super interesting.

I have got kind of ichy feelings the first time I have seen the photo of the plant. It´s like a body reaction calling me to be very cautious, as this plant is toxic...

More research is needed but if you can really cut a bad trip from 2-3 drops of this tincture I would say is quite useful. At the end the dosage makes the venom.

So sure, pretty interesting and powerful stuff. Curious that it has like 100 years listed in old literature and it is pretty much unknown even to drug geeks as us.
Click to expand...

If you look at Pharmacopeia’s from the early 1900’s there’s tons of herbal medicines used that have been washed from our repertoire due to the simple fact of them being un-copyright-able. I actually have one from 1903 I believe, found it in an antique book store. I should look and see if Ghost Pipe is in there, this edition gives nothing but how to produce medicine from said plants.

That said we need to take these with a grain of salt as they also thought mercury salts were a good medicine back in those days as well.

-GC
 
I notice some of the literature states that the roots are the part used. However various references from herbal practitioners I have seen say that they have noticed no difference between the aerial parts and the roots in efficacy. Also, my friend's tincture she made was made with only the aerial parts, and that was the one was kicked my friend directly out of his bad DMT experience, and even re-arranged his perception of it having been bad (or perhaps he would have done that anyway - either way, it was undeniable that he went from looping and shouting he was dying, to smiling and standing up and talking coherently to us within 10-20 seconds, never seen anything like it).

I have tried my tincture once at 5 drops the other night. I felt something for sure, it was neither pleasant nor unpleasant, but a sort of buzzing vibration under my skin, a warm flush, and I felt almost a tiny bit dissociated. There was a faint head change but hard to describe, and mild. I will go for 1mL next time, I think, or maybe double to 10 drops, first. But the words of people using this on patients seem to uniformly say to start with 3 drops, but you can safely jump to 1mL if 3 drops doesn't do it for a person.
 
I really wish I would’ve actually read the OP first but have been very busy. Absolutely fascinating stuff and will now be included in my festival gear as a potential way to stop a bad trip. As you know, recently I was turned down on my offer of benzos when two girls were freaking out but maybe a natural tincture would have been better received.

I’d like to know more. It seems your friend is already well versed on use of this nature. I have read multiple sources stating Ghost Pipe is good for such conditions.

Has she used it for this purpose before? Any and all details on past experiences would be greatly appreciated. Really cool shit @Xorkoth excited to hear more :)

Got a festival tomorrow, my Ghost Pipe tincture will be coming along. I too also made mine of above ground parts of the plant, tincture was made with 50/50 water/ethanol where just enough liquid covered the plant material. I’ve had it sitting for a couple years now.

-GC
 
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