GHB? Where are your choices taking you?

[SteveElektro]

^^ I agree, that statement is ridiculous and could be applied to cars with equal validity. Responsibility rests with the user.

 

[phase_dancer]

I know that if I worked for a butcher and I sold someone bad meat which made them end up in hospital i would be pretty upset.
The probabilty of this happening regarding the consumption of ghb is far more likely to occur

Sorry to take you to task on this Trance Nation, but that comparison is not really very representative of any illegal drug dealer. With your term "bad meat" I assumed you mean rotten or off meat. If so then wouldn't you expect that a butcher would/ should be able to detect bad meat, so he/she should be able to avoid selling any bad meat?

But what about the conscientious, well intended Ecstasy Candy Man? He sources an unknown product every week. The chemical doesn't come from any industrial process, and doesn't come from nature, so each and every batch - potentially every tablet run - is a mixture of unknowns. These pass from hand to hand, where they can be cut, substituted and reconstituted. Tablets are often porus, soaking up liquids and some vapours they may come into contact with. Large numbers of pills supplied in open or non-sealable bags pass from dealer to dealer and shipments of tablets travel the globe. No one watches them or monitors their storage, transport or susceptibility to contamination.

However, as G is normally (at this time anyway) sourced from industrially intended sources (1,4B) or diverted from the few legal uses in the case of GHB; these chemicals, while perhaps not intended for human consumption, nevertheless are more likely to be a known entity. They are likely to be manufactured or produced to specification, packaged and shipped accordingly via routes/methods hopefully safe from cross-contamination.

While either drug (E or G) may go through countless links in the chain, each offering opportunity for tampering, IMO unless G is being synthesised from scratch or OTC chemicals such as GABA, it is more likely to be what it's said to be. The only added contaminant should be water, which aside from perhaps causing future confusion regarding dosage, is actually less likely to present a life threatening outcome. A different story would be intentional dilution with alcohol, but apart from accidental poisonings, to my knowledge this form of tampering has not been reported.

It comes down to the responsibility of the dealer and the personal management skills of the user. The one area which G compounds differ markedly from most other drugs is in the form they are used/sold in. As a clear liquid G poses more than a slight danger to unsuspecting thirsty people.

Much More so than with other currently popular rec drugs, it is therefore essential that the user of G compounds also displays a strong sense of responsibility and does not become complacent. It is important to remember that many people have never heard of the drug, knowing nothing about the dangers of a bottle of salty tasting water they may find sitting on a table at a party.

G-O.D. = C.P.R.

 

[missjane]

gotta agree with onetwothreefour that dealers need to take a bit of responsibilty and educate their customers! dance parties arent my thing but ghb is. gamma hydroxy you beauty mate (as my best mate calls it) is my drug of choice these days and after a couple of years on it i can honestly say that i have only ever g'd out as in unable to be roused once! and that was in the early days. it can be as little as a half a ml that makes the diff between a good time and unconscious

 

[TranceNation]

I totally agree, I was not all there in writing that statement, so do appolgise for writing that crap

I understand that any drug can be mis-used in a way that can cause death , overdose etc,

Im simply stating that the risk with ghb is much higher,

 

[syntech]

from what i've heard u cant actually get GHB in aus, only 1,4B......

thats why u gotta wait 2 hours between doses cos its gotta get converted to GHB in ur system, whereas GHB doesnt do that and has no load on the liver whatsoever.....

hmmm

 

[TranceNation]

from what i've heard u cant actually get GHB in aus, only 1,4B......

thats why u gotta wait 2 hours between doses cos its gotta get converted to GHB in ur system, whereas GHB doesnt do that and has no load on the liver whatsoever.....

hmmm

hey could anyone verify this? I would be very interested to know if this is possible.

Can't understand why we couldnt GHB and only just 14,b??

 

[syntech]

i dunno, ask Sllip.

i may have been unknowingly twisting his words.....

 

[BigTrancer]

GHB's hard to make in Australia for the same reason MDMA is, IMO, the precursor chemicals (one of which is GBL) are restricted and hard to obtain. As little as a few years ago (within BL archives/memories) GHB was not illegal... you could buy GHB kits online, and control your dose accurately. Sadly this is no longer the case.

BigTrancer

 

[melburn_madness]

u know wots even worse, in melbourne when the pigs get their new spit tester they are going to be able 2 pick up on MDMA... so people still wanteding to drive and avoid detection are going to go running to the G head on and they will be dropping like flies.

 

[phase_dancer]

From poster OcoteaCymbarum on the unmentionable site;

The main use of butyrolactone is as an intermediate in the synthesis of N-methylpyrrolidone (NMP) [23], pyrrolidone [24], herbicides (e.g., MCPB = g-2-methyl-4-chlorophenoxybutyric acid) [25], growth regulators (e.g., a-(4-methylbenzylidene)-g-butyrolactone [5418-24-6] [26]), a-acetobutyrolactone (a vitamin B1 intermediate) [27], and the rubber additive thiodibutyric acid [28]. Butyrolactone is used as a solvent for polymers [29], [30] and as a polymerization catalyst [31]; in hairwave compositions [32] and sun lotions [33]; and in pharmaceuticals [34]. It is also used in printing inks, e.g., for ink-jet printing [35], as an extractant in the petroleum industry [36], as a stabilizer for chlorohydrocarbons [37] and phosphorus-based pesticides [38], and as a nematocide [39]. More recent applications are in the electronics field as a cosolvent for capacitor electrolytes [40] and as a cosolvent for photoresists [41].

From ISOCORP http://www.ispcorp.com/home.html

AGRISYNTH® BLO
DESCRIPTION
y-butyrolactone

PROPERTIES
Physical Form clear liquid
Boiling Point 204°C
Freezing Point -44°C
Flash Point (open cup) 98°C
Density (25°C) 1.12 g/cm3
Viscosity (25°C) 1.7mPa.s
Completely miscible with water, methanol, acetone, benzene, carbon tetrachloride, ethyl ether, monochlorobenzene.
Insoluble in aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Liquid over a wide temperature range.
Easily recoverable, non-corrosive solvent.
Low fire hazard.
Reacts with bases, alcohols, thio compounds, halogen acids, amines, cyclic compounds, etc. to give derivatives of butyric acid; by aldol condensation to form oxetone; with cyanide to form glutarimide.

APPLICATIONS
Formulation Solvent: Outstanding solvent for many active ingredients.
Herbicides: Starting material for the manufacture of 2, 4-dichlorophenoxybutyric acid and 2-methyl-4-chlorophenoxybutyric acid which as their amine salts are the herbicides 2,4-DB and MCPB. Intermediate for the manufacture of 2-chloro-23-63 -diethyl-N- (methoxymethyl)- acetanilide, a herbicide for controlling annual grasses and broadleaf weeds.

Insecticides: The reaction products of halobutyrolactones with many different types of inorganic and organic sulphur containing compounds, can be used as insecticides, e.g. 0,0-dimethyl 0-(3,5,6-trichloro-2 pyridyl) - phosphorothioate, a soil insecticide for control of wireworms, corn rootworms, cutworms and maggots; 0.0-dimethyl S-(4-oxo-1,2,3-benzo-triazon-3(4H)-yl)methyl) phosphorodithioate, an insecticide for use on a wide variety of fruit, vegetable, nut, melon and field crops. Stabilizes urea in fertilizer formulations.


AGRISYNTH® PA
DESCRIPTION
2-propyn-1-ol
HC=C-CH2OH
PROPERTIES
Physical Form liquid
Boiling Point 115°C
Freezing Range -48°C to -52°C
Flash Point (open cup) 36°C
Density (25°C) 0.95 g/cm3
Viscosity (20°C) 1.68mPa.s
Completely miscible with water, ethanol, ethyl ether, acetone, benzene, chloroform, dioxane, pyridine.
Immiscible with aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Three centres of reactivity: primary hydroxyl group, methine, hydrogen, and triple bond.
Undergoes esterification, etherification, typical addition reactions, oxidative coupling; reacts with aldehydes, amines, Grignard reagents, halogens; forms cyclic acctals.

APPLICATIONS
Insecticides: Intermediate for propargite 2-(4-(1, 1-dimethylethyl) phenoxy)-cyclohexyl-2-propynyl sulphite, a miticide.


AGSOLEX® BLO
DESCRIPTION
y-butyrolactone

PROPERTIES
Physical Form clear liquid
Boiling Point 204°C
Freezing Point -44°C
Flash Point (open cup) 98°C
Density (25°C) 1.12 g/cm3
Viscosity (25°C) 1.7mPa.s
Completely miscible with water, methanol, acetone, benzene, carbon tetrachloride, ethyl ether, monochlorobenzene.
Insoluble in aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Liquid over a wide temperature range.
Thermally stable, easily recovered, noncorrosive solvent.
Low fire hazard. Biodegradable.

EPA Status: AgsolEx BLO is exempt from tolerance for preharvest use under 40 CFR 180.1001 (d); on EPA List 3 (environmental safety) and List 4 (health).
APPLICATIONS
Formulation Solvent: Powerful solvent for a wide range of active ingredients. Can be used to formulate technical concentrates, emulsifiable concentrates and microemulsions.
Synthesis Medium: Used as a synthesis solvent in many pesticide reactions.

Fertilizer Stabilizer: When mixed with urea prevents ammonia production and maintain neutral pH.

Cleaning Agent: For chemical reactors.

1,4 Butanediol is used extensively in the plastics industry and finds uses typical of short chain diols such as an antifreeze.

Material Safety Data Sheet

Main Ingredient in Model XXXX* Coolant


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 1 - PRODUCT INFORMATION

Product ID: NCI 598061 1,4 BUTANEDIOL

Common Chemical Name: 1,4 - Butanediol

Synonyms: 1,4 Butylene Glycol

Molecular Formula: HOCH (2) CH (2) CH(2) CH(2) OH

Molecular Wt: 90.1

Chemical Family: Glycol


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 2 - INGREDIENTS

Chemical Name: Butanediol HP

CAS #: 110-63-4

Amount: 100%

PEL/TLV Data: Not established


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 3 - PHYSICAL PROPERTIES

Color: Colorless

Form/Appearance: Oily Liquid

Odor: Nearly odorless

Odor Intensity: None

Spc. Gravity: 1.015

pH: 7-8 su

Boiling Pt: 229° C @ 1 atmosphere pressure

Freezing Pt: <19° C @1 atmosphere pressure

Decomp. Tmp: Not Available

Solubility in Water Description: Miscible

Vapor Pressure: <1 Millibars @ 20° C

Vapor Density: 3.1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 4 - FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA

Flash Pt: 134° C Method: DIN 51 758

Autoignition: 370° C Method: None specified

Extinguishing Media: Use water fog, foam or dry chemical extinguishing media.

Fire Fighting Procedures: Firefighters should be equipped with self-contained breathing apparatus and turn out gear.

Unusual Hazards: Low when exposed to heat or flames. It can react with oxidizing material.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 5 - HEALTH EFFECTS

Routes of entry for solids and liquids include eye and skin contact, ingestion and inhalation. Routes of entry for gasses include inhalation and eye and skin contact.

Toxicology Test data:

Rat, Oral LD50-1500 MG/KG Moderately Toxic
Rat, Dermal LD50 - >2000 MG/KG Slightly Toxic
Rabbit, Primary Skin Irritation - Nonirritating
Rabbit, Eye Irritation (unrinsed) - Nonirritating

Acute Overexposure Effects: Contact with the eyes and skin may result in slight irritation. If ingested, 1,4-butanediol is a depressant. Symptoms of acute overexposure include deep narcosis, constriction of pupils, and loss of reflexes. Damage to the kidneys has also been reported after ingestion.

Chronic Overexposure Effects: There are no known chronic effects associated with this material.

First Aid Procedures - Skin: Wash affected areas with soap and water. Remove and launder contaminated clothing before reuse. If irritation develops, get medical attention.

First Aid Procedures - Eyes: Immediately wash eyes with running water for 15 minutes. If irritation develops, get medical attention.

First Aid Procedures - Ingestion: If swallowed, dilute with water and immediately induce vomiting. Never give fluids or induce vomiting if the victim is unconscious or having convulsions. Get immediate medical attention.

First Aid Procedures - Inhalation: Move to fresh air. Aid in breathing, if necessary, and get immediate medical attention.

First Aid Procedures - Notes to Physicians: None known.

First Aid Procedures - Aggravated Medical Conditions: No data is available which addresses medical conditions that are generally recognized as being aggravated by exposure to this product. Please refer to Section 5 (Effects of Overexposure) for effects observed in animals.

First Aid Procedures - Special Precautions: None

-----------------------------------------------------------

From DU PONT

Properties, Uses, Storage and Handling of
DuPont Glycols
polyether glycol
Terathane®
e Terathane® PTMEG/1,4-Butanediol
Product Information
Terathane® polyether glycol is polytetramethylene
ether glycol (PTMEG). It is a waxy, white solid that
melts to a clear, colorless liquid over a wide
temperature range near room temperature. DuPont
1,4-butanediol also melts at room temperature to a
liquid that is similar to Terathane® 650 in viscosity
and refractive index.

DuPont manufactures PTMEG in seven molecular
weights: Terathane® 250, 650, 1000, 1400, 1800,
2000 and 2900. Other molecular weights can be
made on special order; for further information,
customers may contact DuPont as shown on the
back cover.

Terathane® is a blend of linear diols in which the
hydroxyl groups are separated by repeating
tetramethylene ether groups. For example,
Terathane® 1000 is HO(CH2CH2CH2CH2O)nH,
where n averages 14. For Terathane® 2000, n
averages about 27. Butanediol has the same formula,
where n = 1: HOCH2CH2CH2CH2OH.
The Chemical Abstracts Service covers Terathane®
under two names: furan, tetrahydro, polymer (CAS
Registry Number 24979-97-3) and poly(oxy-1,4-
butanediyl)-a-hydro-w-hydroxyl (CAS Registry
Number 25190-06-1). The TSCA inventory lists
only the latter number. The CAS Registry Number
for 1,4-butanediol is 110-63-4.

Physical Properties
Table 1 lists Specifications and Typical Analyses
for butanediol and the five grades of Terathane®.
Figure 1 shows the effect of temperature on viscosity
for Terathane® and 1,4-butanediol. The effect of
temperature on density is shown in Figure 2.
Butanediol and Terathane® polyether glycols are
readily soluble in alcohols, esters and ketones, but
they are insoluble in aliphatic hydrocarbons.
Terathane® polyether glycols will also dissolve in
aromatic and chlorinated hydrocarbons, but are
insoluble in water. Butanediol is soluble in water,
but insoluble in aromatic and chlorinated hydrocarbons.
The solubility of Terathane® in functional
solvents decreases as the length of aliphatic chains
increases; e.g., Terathane® is completely miscible
with methanol, but insoluble in dodecanol.

Terathane® 1000 will dissolve to about 20% in
1,4-butanediol at 25°C (77°F), but Terathane® 2000
dissolves less than 10%.
These glycols are all hygroscopic. At room temperature,
Terathane® can absorb up to 2% water, depending
on the molecular weight. Terathane® 250 is
mostly miscible with water.

Chemical Reactions
Terathane® polyether glycols and butanediol are
dihydric alcohols and undergo the reactions
typical of the hydroxyl group. The two commercially
significant reactions are esterification with
carboxylic acids and formation of urethanes with
isocyanates. Reaction with acrylic acids results in
the addition of a vinyl group that can be subsequently
crosslinked.

Stability
Terathane® polyether glycols contain oxidation
inhibitors. After storage under nitrogen for one year
at 70°C (158°F), Terathane® polyether glycols still
meet production specifications. Butanediol is also
indefinitely stable in sealed containers.

------------------------------------------


On this page you should find most answers to questions relating to
GHB analogues


You may have noticed in all this reading, no mention was made of any listed product being suitable for human consumption. Purity required for most apllications; plastics, fertilisers, reactor cleaner etc etc., differs considerably from pharmaceutical or food grade grade chemicals.

 

[stacyrox]

I was considering starting a topic in here on the same issue a while ago as this is one of my pet drug peeves. At least HALF of the people that I know do not treat 1,4B with the respect that it deserves.

I remember back 18months-2yrs ago when we all viewed "g'ing out" as an extremely serious situation. Even if someone had just nodded off because of it, we would have someone there watching them to make sure that they were alright. Nowdays, however, g'ing out is all the rage. It makes me really mad when people that I know talk about g'ing out like it is just one of those things that happens on your average night out, kinda like grinding your teeth while you're on pills. The amount of times that I have heard someone say casually in conversation "this weekend I went to a friends place.. had some g.. g'd out on the couch for a while.. was great fun.". It makes me sick. However, to top that off I have also witnessed people at a party sit in the corner on the couch, have some g, g-out, wake up 2hrs later and pour themselves another dose of g, and consequently g out again for another 2hrs.. this can be repeated many many times, and what makes this worse is that they think they are having a good time!

What scares me most is how blase we have become about people when they g out. Usually if someone g's out you point and have a bit of a chuckle and leave them be, not really knowing how severe their state of unconsciousness really is. Granted, in my group of friends we generally all group up when we are dosing, we dose at the same time as at least one other person and we make known to them the amount we are doing and what the time is etc. I like to keep tabs on my friends so that I can advise on appropriate dosages (as some people always forget to lower their dosages, and if they dont, end up g'ing out somewhere) and when its still too early to re-dose.

1,4B/GHB is an extremely dangerous drug, yet also very enjoyable when treated with the respect it deserves. More often than not I find that the people who fuck up on it the most are those who think that because they know everything about it and what their limits are, that they are somehow immune to the effects that it is going to give if they dont follow the strict guidelines. Just coz you know about something doesnt make it safer. With g, if you try and chase the high you're gonna end up dead. I just wish people would realise that g'ing out is NOT cool, its fucking dangerous!

And lastly, to finish off my rant, not colouring your g is one of the most irresponsible and stupid things you can ever do! I'm tired of hearing about dickheads who put their clear g into a water bottle, and some unknowing person has come along and taken a swig. ITS NOT THAT FUCKING HARD!

stace.

 

[phase_dancer]

^

 

[stacyrox]

Oh and just for the record, in the 18months or so that I have been using 1,4B, I have not once g'd out. And I would consider myself a frequent user of the substance.

stace.

 

[BigTrancer]

Stacy ROX

 

[phase_dancer]

x 18 months.

^^ What BT said

One dick sizing thread I could almost tolerate would be one where people brag about not G'ing out and who has gone the longest period. Who know's, perhaps we'd find you hold the BL record stacyrox? :D

Spread the Good word stace!

 

[aunty establishment]

^ Definitely, massive respect! I wish I could say the same for my (former) friends, none of whom bother to measure their doses, they just swig from the bottle and hope for the best. At a certain recent outdoor party a particular friend had a bottle of water in one hand and uncoloured G in the other and was handing out mouthfuls of both to unknowing strangers, as well as randomly taking sips from the wrong bottle by mistake. Frankly I was disgusted when I found this out; as an individual who had been taking drugs for many years I felt they should have known better.

Depite having been close friends with this person for several years I have decided no longer to associate with them until their attitude to drugs becomes more responsible. I can't think what else I could do as encouraging them to be more responsible has failed and I refuse to preach to people regardless of how reckless they choose to be.

 

[Sllip]

*Jumps on the band wagon*

And in the year or so that I have regularily been using G I haven't G'ed out. And I'm not one to be afraid of going a little crazy with the drugs. It's just not worth it with G.

 

[stacyrox]

Just a timely bump for new years...

I heard on Triple J thismorning a report where Paul Dillon warned party goers about the dangers of GHB. It was great to hear.

So just a reminder to play it safe tonight. Look out for your friends and dont be a hero. Dont fuck up your friend's night just coz you're an irresponsible dickhead.

stace.

 

[Dvah]

*Tries not to fuck up Stace's night*


I agree with everything that you have said.
it was about a year of using 1,4 before I first G'd out and I was shocked! I couldn't work out what I was doing any different than any other time I had taken it, I always take the same doses and always drop my doses by 5mls for a redose.
Then.....I did it again.
I was starting to get disturbed so I racked my brain on anything that I thought could be causing me to fall asleep, I had always been very careful with my 1,4 use and had preached to others about being the same, so this kind of embarrassed me to say the least.
What I finally put it down to was that I had stopped using amphets.
Whereas I used to been a fond user of meth and speed, I had cut them out completely over the past 6 months or so and I believe this is what was making me more susceptible to the G sleep.
Im not sure whether I am correct or not, but now I watch my dosing even more carefully and also started amphets again and I haven't had an episode since.
I never wish to again.
G'ing out really is not a cool thing to do

HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPT NEW YEARS EVERYBODY!!!!!

 

[dfi]

One thing i cannot stress enough after my new years celebrations is to find out doses and concentrations from dealers or whoever..... i know it sounds like an obvious one but i have a story from early one new years day.....
after a melbourne event on NYE a group of about 15 friends and me went back to a friends place. we had bought quite a large amount of G, all from the same dealer which in the 3 uncoloured liquids were all very different strengths....
me and a friend (the most experienced G users from the group) ended up trying to work out which was which and colouring them differently......

although i am quite safe with G i cae very close to G'ing out when trying the first bottle....
My charges fo G from the same source everyweek and usually 2.5-3 ml (very concentrated) but in this batch 1.8ml was enough to completely rape me ( to the point of not being able to walk, talk, or see)
mky point with this is that you can always increase your dose but you cant take it away......

and never leave G even if coloured in water bottles on the table with other drinks..... when you are that fucked it will look like cordial....

Keep your G and water separate and coloured and know the purity.... this should keep you safe.
[end rant]
DfI