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Getting things in line for the end.

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TheOpposite said:
I want her to grow without the burden of a mother who is simply put in utter agony.
There is no way to make it sound nice. I'm wanting to kill myself. I would be leaving my daughter. I am aware and hate this. Again, I am thinking realistically (in my opinion) of the benefits my leaving earlier could have on her future.
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I just wanted to tell you a little bit about the effect that my son's father's suicide had on him, just so that you have a different perspective. Please understand that this is not a story, this is the truth for my family.

My son's father was a drug addict, he had started shooting meth by 12 years old. He had a couple of years clean here and there, and spent little to no time being a father to 'his' son. When my son was still a baby he started using again, and I had no choice but to get away. For a time he tried to be a dad, but it didn't last long. He went back to prison, got out, went back, got out. He seemed to have forgotten that he had a son. When my son was about your daughter's age, his father found me. By then he had gotten arrested twice more (after getting out of prison), and was on parole. While he was on parole he stayed 'clean' and started a new relationship with my son. Soon agter that he found out he had Hep C, and was put on interferon. Things spiraled down quickly. He was a raging monster while on it, and quickly pushed away my son.
>>>> Fast forward a bit>>> My son talked to his father 3 times in 3 years. He was in the middle of a horrible and abusive relationship. He and I were butting heads like two animals trying to kill themselves. I found out his father was living 5 miles from us, and took my son there so we could get some space and scheduled a counseling appointment for us. He stayed at his father's home for one night. When we dropped him off his father told me that things had been bad, he had been doing heroin and had to 'get clean' and it had been miserable. When I picked my son up the next day from a friends house, he didn't want to see his father again.
They had a horrible relationship- my son never felt close to father. His father never learned how to care about his son. Do you get what I mean here? They were never close, my son never felt like his father loved him, never felt like his father was there for him, etc.
The night I picked my son up from his friend's, the night after my son spent the night with his father for the first time in 2 years, his father committed suicide.
My son was shattered. He became suicidal. He was angry. He was hurt. He had to be institutionalized to keep him from harming himself. He spent a lot of time in there trying to get his head straight. He blames himself for his father's death, to this day! His father had so many demons, and my son thinks it is his fault.

This is your choice to make. I truly believe that. Your life, your death, your choice. I am not trying to talk you out of your feelings, your choices.

What is not your choice, is the feelings that it will leave on those that you leave behind. A 10 year old little girl will not be thinking about what happened, she will be feeling the loss of her mommy, she might felt lost, responible, afriad, like she did something to cause it, hopeless, lost, and so much more. For her, this will not be seen as a choice you made for you, but as something done to her, taken from her, stolen.

How do you feel when you see your little girl smile? When you make your little girl laugh, what do you feel inside? When you take her to the park, and watch her swing high and free, does your heart hurt? Is it glad? How do you feel when you get to kiss her cheek, tuck her in, say goodnight in your own special way? When was the last time you read her a story? Did you find a story that she loved when she was little? Is there a movie that made her laugh? What games do you like to play with your baby girl? Do you binge watch a TV show together? Do you take her swimming? Have you watched her ride a horse? Have you watched her first love?

She is so young, and has so much more joy to share with you. I hope you think not about her being 'taking care of' by well off family. I hope you think of her heart, her soul, her joy, her pain, her needs, her love. I hope she never has to wonder what she did that mommy go away.

I hope you know, that whether are children are 10, or fifteen, the loss of parent is not something the think about rationally.

I hope you find a way to be happy in the life you have. I hope you understand that it takes years to recover from medication, hurt, loss, and that you can get better. I hope you can look at your little girl, she her smile at you, and know that she loves you. That you, and only you, are her mommy.

It has been just over a year for my son, half that time he spent in an institution, trying to find himself. He has spent the other half trying different drugs, looking for a way to numb the pain.
 
I truly believe that at the purely biological level no one wants to die. The body, and every cell in it, strives for survival. So the problems that make a person suicidal are at a different level. Without wanting to sound dismissive, I would say they lie on the surface of our being. Wanting to end a life that is miserable is quite rational. Wanting to kill the being living it is confused thinking (but very understandable). I advocate ending all that makes you miserable. We are not miserable without thoughts. Its the thoughts that must change or die. Thoughts=perception=reality. What if you could walk away from the thoughts that imprison you? Imagine the relief.

As far as suicide and parenthood goes, I can attest to the horrific effect it has on children left behind--children of any age, but it is a particular cruelty to the youngest. I know you must weigh this in your mind. As your daughter lived in your body for almost 1 year, she now lives in your life. Your life is her home right now. later she will expand into her own life more fully but for now her mother is still her home. When I felt depressed when my children were young I often tried to simply say, "OK. I can just focus on them, live for them until my spirit comes back from whatever dark abyss it is leaning into." It is not that hard to live for someone else for short periods of time. It only becomes unhealthy when it is the only way you live. Perhaps this strategy would help? I don't know. I know that suicide affects children at an almost irreparable level. Depression of a parent does too but here it is truly a matter of degrees of suffering and suicide is far worse.

Sometimes simply the thought that you can end your life can be a comfort. I suspect it makes us feel more in control when our lives feel out of control. It does seem to have given you some calm and peace and maybe even in a weird way is a source of strength. Very sensitive people are more prone to overwhelming emotions and suicide. It makes me sad because we (the species) need those people desperately.
 
G.R.S.H. said:
I just wanted to tell you a little bit about the effect that my son's father's suicide had on him, just so that you have a different perspective. Please understand that this is not a story, this is the truth for my family....
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Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sure my post wasn't easy for you to read, based on your experiences. Thank you for being civil in response regardless.

If you don't mind, I have a few questions... did you use with your ex? How long, during what time(s)? Did your son know his father was on drugs? I'm sure he did, but maybe not. You very well could have sheltered him and it sounds like, for the most part, your son didn't see his father. If he does know that he was a user, has this effected his current and past drug use?

I definitely have thought of the things you bring up about my daughter. When it comes to her feelings, they do matter to me more in this than my own. Before saying anything you have to realize that I truly do feel my presence, in the state I am in, is toxic and unhealthy. I also do not feel my status will improve because of extensive medical help failures, my own attempts the natural route failing etc. My daughter and I have a beautiful strong relationship, don't think we don't because of my depression. I try my best to never allow my daughter to see me in pain. Which in turn means she goes lengths of time without seeing me.

I believe that it is common for children to blame themselves when a parent commits suicide. It's so sad for them to feel something so very untrue.
I wish I could tell your son, "You weren't the reason he took his life. You're the reason he didn't do it sooner."

That probably wouldn't help, in any way. And in your guys' situation it could be completely wrong. But in mine, it's not. My daughter truly is the reason I am still alive. But the age she is at now is a very important one in this situation. In my heart I feel I have raised her to an age where the mother role becomes more and more light. It is also important to me that she not get old enough to forget the memories of me when she was younger. That's gravely important to me. I also know as she ages, especially when puberty hits, my being so mentally unstable is going to be very negative on her life.

No child of a parent who's committed suicide deserves that. At all. It is a terrible thing. But there are things, specific situations, that don't get thought of often.

One last question. And it's a hard one, I hope it doesn't offend you, but it's important to me.

Is there any part of you that feels your son is better off not having his father in his life? You said he was a troubled man... could his suicide be a blessing in a sad, dark way?
 
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AnythingEverything said:
Oh and you mentioned something ahout having more will to live when drinking? I think that's extremely common amongst addicts! And that's part is the reason it's so hard for us to give up and let go. I picked up heroin again after so long as I didn't want to live in pain anymore but I can't leave my kids, so I went back to something I knew would make it all better, even for a couple of hours. Completely get it, it's tough :(
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Definitely going to write back, just busy at the moment. Please check back.

****I'm back. Yes isn't it strange how that is? That in certain situations an addict feels more hope while using? Or maybe what's strange is how people fail to understand that. A true addict would of course feel better while using. They wouldn't be an addict if they didn't.

I am not wanting to throw away my achievement of over 140 days... but I also have reasons of why I want to drink barking in the back of my mind. So far I haven't succumb to any of those pesky barks.

Heroin, huh. Never tried it. I've always stuck to slamming oxy and d's, when I can find and afford it. But I have been clean recently. As I said above in an earlier post I've only been using marijuana about the past 5ish months.
 
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herbavore said:
I truly believe that at the purely biological level no one wants to die. The body, and every cell in it, strives for survival. So the problems that make a person suicidal are at a different level. Without wanting to sound dismissive, I would say they lie on the surface of our being. Wanting to end a life that is miserable is quite rational. Wanting to kill the being living it is confu.. .
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Very interesting response...
Definitely going to write back, just currently busy. Please check back.

****Okay I'm back...
so for the benefit and sake of saving both our time... So I don't have to retype so much can you read over my response to G R S H? A lot of what I said to her I'd like for you to read...

When you say that our thoughts are ultimately our reality... that's always been something I've liked to discuss. But as it pertains to suicide I think the situation is just all around deeper than me thinking "I'm so sad. I want to die." Or one might argue with "when you tell yourself something a hundred times every day it becomes true..."
it's deeper than just training the mind. In my opinion, there is no fair argument to this. Because suicides are all extremely different. And can be about so many different things. No two could ever be compared.

In the end, my feelings remain the same as above... It's time. It's best.

I love how you brought biology up, by the way.
 
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Yes, my son knew his father was an addict. I don't believe in hiding information like that, sheltering him would have had to eventually ended up with a big 'reveal' as addiction runs through our genes just like it runs through our desires. On top of that, my son needed to know why his father wasn't in his life. Why his father never called, spent time with him, etc. I don't think that lying would have been good for him.
My son's father and I used together, once when my son was a year old- it sucked and ultimately lead to my leaving. We both used meth, I hated the thought of getting caught so that was it. I wouldn't risk losing my son, he didn't think that way.
After his father's death my son started experimenting, like most addicts he hated the way he feels and wanted it to change. As you can imagine, the emotional results of different drug use makes my moody teenager unstable. He can't come to terms with his emotions and the suicidal thoughts are more and more prevalent. Sometimes he is all about seeing his father again. Sometimes he is angry as hell with his father. Sometimes he just cries. Mixing in weed, add drugs, MDMA, and more isn't helping. But that's what he doing to get past the pain. I'm still not sure how to help him.
Is there a part of ME that is glad that asshole that hurt my son every time my son held his hand out is gone? HELL YES! He was selfish and destructive, he caused my son more pain then I can explain. But I am not my son, and I stopped wanting that man many, many years ago. My identity is not closely tied to him, I share nothing with him.
The real question is: is my son glad? NO. Children would rather have their parents in their lives, a source of who they are for as long as possible. After all, my son has his father's DNA too. The things that swirl through his mind are dark and frightening. There is some thoughts that suicide, like addiction, runs in the family. So naturally not only is my son's drug use something that he inherited from his father, he probably inherited the 'suicide' gene too. If he (my son) commits suicide, will he get to see his father again?
My thoughts are of a man who caused pain and loneliness; my son's are of his father.
I see a lot of rationalization in your posts that make it ok for you to leave your daughter while she is so young. And your relationship is not my son's and his father's. But I am in my 40s, and I still need my mommy from time to time. I may not be able to live in the same state as my mom, but I still need her.
I hope I answered all your questions, I will take a look at this again when I am back in front of my computer- it's hard to do on my phone.
 
So, TheOpposite, is it unrelenting depression that you are dealing with (when you say there have been medical failures)?

I did read both what you wrote to G.R.S.H. and her response. (And I am impressed with both of you and the holistic way you both think.<3)

I have been a teacher of young children and young teens for over 40 years. And I have been suicidal at different times in my own life--first as a very lost teen, later after the death of my son. So those are two experiences I bring to this conversation. I am an advocate for a person's right to die. I am also an advocate for children and families. It is a complex space to try to navigate. But I guess it could be summed up this way: you have the right to end your own pain but in my mind you must not rationalize or minimize the pain you will cause your daughter. My friend was 28 when her father killed himself. In his mind, because she was no longer a child she would not suffer "as much". The fact he chose to ignore (to lessen his own pain) is that we are always our parents children, at any age. I am not trying to induce guilt. I believe guilt usually causes more harm than good in any situation. But you strike me as a very thoughtful and nuanced thinker and I think you will see what I am trying to say--at least I hope so. I am trying to say that you must always weigh your own life in one hand and your child's in another--it comes with the territory of motherhood. When I wanted so badly to die the night I found my sweet son's body, I quite literally stood on the edge of my own existence. Death would have been so welcome. I can still feel with every fiber in my body how welcoming it was, how near and accessible and not at all scary. But I have another son. And his presence, though he was several miles away, physically held me back. For months I thought, "OK, I'll go on for him. I'll fake it, I'll be there on the surface somehow." But what I have found (it has been six years) is that life welcomed me back as well. I could not have predicted that I would be able to face my guilt, my anguish, my bone-deep sadness that never goes away and yet value life, my own and those of everyone else, even more than before losing my youngest son to his own despair.

I hope for you that you can find your way back into the peace of living. We all cause hurt with our lives. But we all also create sanctuary for each other. Your life with your daughter will be brief anyway. I'm 63. It goes by so fast now. It feels like yesterday that my son died and yet so soon it will be a decade. A huge part of the pain of losing him to his own despair (addiction, a criminal record for drugs, a mental illness diagnosis) is that I failed as a parent to show him the enormous possibility that existed in the world outside of his experience. When a person is in psychic pain, the world shrinks around that pain and it is like a fog that obscures everything beyond his or her own skin. But the beautiful, glorious, infinitely interesting world simply goes on existing outside that falsely constricted view and sometimes sheer faith is the only lifeline. I do not mean religious faith. Again, back to the cells--the consciousness that exists at our mysterious core. We have been talking about living for your daughter but I know that would be only temporarily sustainable (though I would still advocate for it). You have everything you need inside you to be at peace with life. You are so right on when you say every suicide is different and that is because every life is an entire universe of uniqueness. What is yours? What is causing such deep anguish? What about fear--where does it come from for you? What language do you use to speak to yourself? Could you learn a new one?
 
I am so off tonight. I cannot even think straight.

Tonight is bad. Worse than bad. I wrote a whole huge thing explaining it, deleted it, then put it back. Took it off again.

I can't even find the words. I will try my hardest to hang on. And respond appropriately.

But I am exhausting all effort. All effort for everything. I'm fucking dangerously low.

I enjoyed reading your responses. I wish I had the capability to respond, let alone type on my phone.
 
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I find using my phone to be much harder for expressing my thoughts completely. Just harder to spend the time typing.

I'm sorry you are so tired. I hope you at least give a 'I'm still here' once you've rested.

There are 2 other facts that I failed to mention; I am a chronic pain mom (I.e. I struggle every day to get out of bed, walk, move, etc.) and I know it wasn't my son's fault that his father killed himself and I tell him that all the time! When a person is faced with surviving someone who choose to leave there is very little you can do to convince them that they are wrong in their assumptions. Blameing One's self is a common reaction. It doesn't make sense most of the time, but our feelings often don't.

I hope you rest and wake up feeling the start of the first day of the rest of your life.
 
How can you die if you have never lived... Life is pain. Pain is growth...

I have been fighting a disabling spinal disease for 30 plus years. Thoughts of death. Yep. pain... yep. I spent years living on the edge daring god to take me. Ran around with a .45 round for years as a reminder I had a way out.

Recently I lost my insurance. 10 year morphine pain management and no way to afford it anymore. Know what its like to go through withdrawals with an old broken body? Day 22 clean and yep my old buddys pain and depression are still there.

Embrace your pain/depression and try living.

How can you die till you have lived.... Embrace it and use it to grow.

R13
 
One of the things you can do in addition to getting things done is looking into an inpatient facility in your area. If you are going to do it, I mean really do it, no one can stop you. So you can just as easily do it in a behavioral health facility as anywhere else, right? And while you are in there, maybe, just maybe, you'll find someone you will connect with that you can relate to locally that who will understand what you are going through. I don't mean a hookup, I mean the opposite of that, because that is the last thing you need right now. I mean a friend. So also in the mean time, yeah, there is always prayer, journalling, and screaming into your pillow. There is another great online support group called Project Semicolon. The semicolon basically means life continues or life goes on after depression or mental illness or a suicide attempt. I used to live in that in between suicide world until my brother did it, and I couldn't bring him back. Also, make sure no one in your family has to clean up or find you. Just think about that long enough until maybe you won't feel like doing it anymore.
 
I am alive. If you can call it that.
Have I lost you all? I have thought of a few of you quite frequently believe or not. Intelligent conversation can work wonders.

In regards to one of the comments; no a mental institution is not where I belong. I know from experience. All though I almost checked into one on the Fourth of July, I will not thrive there and I do not want my last days being spent in a building designed for the misunderstood to be heavily medicated for a few days.

I feel it is very important I clear something up. Somewhere I believe I said I was in far too much pain. I was meaning it more along the lines of the deep emotional pain that words just simply do not touch. I do feel extreme physical pain as well, but I hold onto that pain most days... to help me ignore my depression that is unrelentless.

To the people who have followed all of this thread; I fell off the wagon folks. I fell off the fucking wagon.
I am unsure of what is going to happen now. I need to be very smart about this. Alcohol and I do not mix, and is not the option I'm looking for to kill myself. It's almost impossible to drink yourself to death over night. I've tried, succeeded almost once... but it is not the way to do it.
Take it from me. An honest woman who has no reason to lie on a public forum.
It's just not the way to do it.
 
Hey I am glad you are still with us, what happened to make you fall off the wagon? I have the same thoughts as you and I tried to end this stage of my existence by taking a mixture of pills that was supposed to put me into cardiac arrest. It didn't happen and I was so frustrated and angry I thought I was seriously going insane. Anyways I still have all the self-loathing and thoughts of hatred for myself thinking about all the good and positive in my life that I have ruined due to my addictions. All the meds I am on just seem to mask things for a little while and then all the thoughts and feelings come raging back into my head. You have two really good goals in your book and school and maybe you could finish those two things and then re-evaluate your situation and see if you feel better. Well no one can tell you what to do with your life but you have really good support here and people who genuinely care about you and don't want anything bad to happen to you. So please just hang in there and think of all the good and positive that exists to help us all through this stage of life. It's not easy I know, Honestly my dog is what gets me through each day and the thought of leaving her alone is stopping me from making any re attempts. So please hang on and I wish you well in your journeys!
 
Depression has robbed my whole entire chance of living. And is killing everyone around me.

Anyone who has read my post, and still felt a reason to tell me to stay alive?
Thank you. Thank you, for that. I cherish the positive.

But you need to realize that I have felt things you have not. You cannot begin to fathom...

And you are a beautiful, hopeful being. Hold on to that. Please? For people like my daughter. She truly, truly needs that.

Please. She is only nine.
 
I love my daughter more than any simplistic fools words can say...

She is the only reason I am here. The only thing.
But I am literally, not figurately, dying infront of her eyes.

I cannot eat. I cannot sleep. I am dying.

I am a plague on her life... ruining the only beautiful memories of myself for her. The only memories she has of when I was healthy. When was younger.

She cannot, and willnot remember me like this.
Any mother would understand.


If my pain were only physical?
I'd say fuck it and live.

I can beat any disease. (I won't get into what I am diagnosed. Because I truly believe emotional, mental, psychological disease is the deadliest.)

But if you have a condition, I feel for you. Don't give up on treatments. The pain is screaming, but hold onto your healthy mind. It will guide you.

I cannot beat what is my mind... it's... deadlier than anything I can describe.
 
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DogLover123757 said:
Hey I am glad you are still with us, what happened to make you fall off the wagon? I have the same thoughts as you and I tried to end this stage of my existence by taking a mixture of pills that was supposed to put me into cardiac arrest. It didn't happen and I was so frustrated and angry I thought I was seriously going insane. Anyways I still have all the self-loathing and thoughts of hatred for myself thinking about all the good and positive in my life that I have ruined due to my addictions. All the meds I am on just seem to mask things for a little while and then all the thoughts and feelings come raging back into my head. You have two really good goals in your book and school and maybe you could finish those two things and then re-evaluate your situation and see if you feel better. Well no one can tell you what to do with your life but you have really good support here and people who genuinely care about you and don't want anything bad to happen to you. So please just hang in there and think of all the good and positive that exists to help us all through this stage of life. It's not easy I know, Honestly my dog is what gets me through each day and the thought of leaving her alone is stopping me from making any re attempts. So please hang on and I wish you well in your journeys!
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Trying hard to do this on my iPhone, while helping my husky in the heat. I'm also drinking. Bear with me.

And thank you for the response. I will check back as soon as I can.
 
I know that our lives are not a carbon copy of each other, and it's near impossible to truly understand another person's situation and feelings 100%. No matter how much interaction there is. Nothing can change the past for either of us and I wish we could have just one time that we could hit rewind and get to go back and make a different decision at a bad time in our lives. I have so many regrets, I am such a disappointment and embarrassment to my family and I am stuck with that forever. Each of us has our own darkness but we have also been given the ability to share with each other and lift each other up in a time of need. You have a nine year old daughter, that is one of the most beautiful gifts that our species has been given. I hope you look to her and just feel warmth and happiness and use her as motivation to stay alive and make a change. Easier said then done I know, I don't have any chdren just nephews and nieces. I try to help them and give them advice to not make the same mistakes as I have. It feels good when I can share with them and steer them in the right direction. So writing a book, finishing school and your daughter, that is three excellent reasons to hang on and you can find a lot of love and happiness in those categories. I know it's damn near impossible to overcome the negative feelings but you have beautiful reasons to hang around, just one step at a time. Hang on!
 
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