Get clean of opoiods without WDs

[SpiralusSancti]

Idk if it’s mental patients, big pharma, plain stupid or what...but state in 2023. is just sad..

Anyway if you want to get from taramadol, oxy or in fact any opiod you can get in slow/extended release form. Immediately cut dose (how much?, depends on 3 factors, how many times per day you were taking , how much altogether,, half-life and peak plasma concentrations: it can be anything from few % of a dose cut to immediately cutting ½ and still feeling great) and still experience zero WDs, and keep cutting and experience absolutely zero physical symptoms going from any amount to 0, 100% guaranteed, 100% tried by doctors and patients I know.

This technique wont work if you are already taking huge amounts of slow/extended release stuff obviously. And if you are smoking/using I.V., for those first step is to change ROA to snorting, than to fast acting oral and stabilize.

This is tried by literally hundreds of patients and worked as a charm (for getting clean it worked for almost all of them, as for staying clean, we’ll get there too).

Good luck!

 

[plumbus-nine]

The way to go imo are dissociatives like memantine which modulate mu opioid receptors to kind of forget the tolerance they built up against mu afonists.

I quit a 600mg/d morphine habit with pregabalin and memantine megadoses and didn't have to go through withdrawal. YMMV though but for me it worked.

What you suggest is just classical tapering or do I misunderstand it?

 

[nznity]

Idk if it’s mental patients, big pharma, plain stupid or what...but state in 2023. is just sad..

Anyway if you want to get from taramadol, oxy or in fact any opiod you can get in slow/extended release form. Immediately cut dose (how much?, depends on 3 factors, how many times per day you were taking , how much altogether,, half-life and peak plasma concentrations: it can be anything from few % of a dose cut to immediately cutting ½ and still feeling great) and still experience zero WDs, and keep cutting and experience absolutely zero physical symptoms going from any amount to 0, 100% guaranteed, 100% tried by doctors and patients I know.

This technique wont work if you are already taking huge amounts of slow/extended release stuff obviously. And if you are smoking/using I.V., for those first step is to change ROA to snorting, than to fast acting oral and stabilize.

This is tried by literally hundreds of patients and worked as a charm (for getting clean it worked for almost all of them, as for staying clean, we’ll get there too).

Good luck!

You're always gonna feel some degree of withdrawal, even if u taking the lowest dose possible. Even with IBOGAine, you feel wds but they fade quicker than usual.
To get clean, it has to hurt. Even if you're extremely careful and use the best possible comfort meds, it hurts a lil bit.
Pain makes u stronger.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

What you suggest is just classical tapering or do I misunderstand it?

You can go with a classic tapper or however you want and it will be more effective and way easier to stop than using regular form of same substance to do tapper. A LOT more effective and a LOT easier process for people who are dedicated to stop opiods. As peak plasma concentration of a substance has a lot of effects for both addiction and (less so) effectiveness. Worth noting is that there are more substances (specifically, almost all opiods designated for low-mild pain) that are significantly more effective for intended use in slow/extended release than regular form and usually fail only for recreational use and in time needed until it kicks in. Time needed to kick in is effectively eliminated if drug is used multiple times daily for chronic pain. Than there is biggest chunk of substances that are not made in slow release form because upon concentrations of plasma are stabilized it’s same if used at once, more times a day or in slow release form. Some substances are sold only in regular form for no reason but that it’s available in generic form and cost of making slow/extended release formulation can in fact exceed price of active chemical itself and even it would be slightly better in that form it isn’t made.

Same reason I.V./smoking is more addictive is why extended/slow release pills are far less addictive (if not chewed/crushed obviously) than same amount of stuff used in in regular form. And it goes both ways, when getting addicted and escalating dose and when stopping and decreasing dose.

I could go for pages into technicalities but I’ll rather just add example.

If person is using 400mg of tramadol in instant release form once a day, switching to 350mg once a day in slow release form will not causes any physical symptoms and in fact, if person is really using it for pain could even result in improved quality of life and less hours spent in pain. For people stuck with tramadol for pain at max doses 2 x 200mg daily is almost always preferred to 4 x 50mg pills because of effectiveness and because of less problems when stopping and because of less chance for serious side effects and because of practicality etc.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

You're always gonna feel some degree of withdrawal, even if u taking the lowest dose possible.

No you wont feel absolutely any physical wd’s from switching to same dose of slow release. You might feel slight psychical problems at first but that’s limited mostly to hc cases and not for people using opiods for pain and stopping cuz they aren’t needed any-more. In case of stopping opiod use for pain and not getting high, significant chunk of people wont get any mental issues at all in that case and if they will it’ll stay limited to very mild symptoms like some insomnia, little bit of nervousness and such, nothing serious.

In case person is a drug addict abusing the shit out of some substances and switching to extended release might experience significant mental problems at same dose but if dedication for stopping is internal and person is not forced to stop for whatever reason by someone/something else he/she’ll be a much better first switching to slow/extended release in slightly lower dose and tapering from that. Same reasons as why I.M. formulation of bupe resulted in cases where people report absolutely no WDs, some not all, but wast amount of physiological/pharmaceutical reasons complimented with purely mental reasons (as in – not being able to abuse it ever in any way during time on it, which is vastly different than skipping doses as someone noted in a thread about sublocade, or snorting it etc.).

I’m not telling about some wacky idea, I’m talking about something well known within circles of people dealing with addiction problematic. Reasons it isn’t widespread are that addict want to get high while bullshitting they want to get clean and second reason is, there ain’t money in it for anyone in addiction industry if this would be a norm. In fact billions upon billions in revenue would be lost if enough money would be put in that direction. Everyone from rehab owners to drug pushers would be at lost.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

As for dissos and how it has to hurt, I’ll write up something about that too.

Dissos might be a way to go for some people while having minimal effectiveness for others or in some cases being seriously dangerous idea even.

Effectiveness of dissos in masking wd’s is great and effectiveness of dissos in helping chunk of addicts to get same relief they get from opiods is even better. But they are far from magic bullet and therefore not even close to being approved for that purpose.

Take my example, during my disso honey-moons I don’t need anything else. I could “get clean” with K in a day and not care for opiods at all for any given amount of time until I would end up seriously ruining myself to the point I have to stop and use opiods for my both regular pain and possibly with pain caused by overuse of K. I personally prefer dissos to opiods when all taken in account but I’m using opiods for pain and getting enough pain relief from dissos daily would led me to a grave before any opiod in a manner I use them would cause any lasting and/or significant damage and problems beyond ass pain from constipation.


Notion/ideas that it “has to hurt” to get clean are dismissed by most doctors before 60s and nowadays considered rudiment from past almost as much as lobotomy. It’s simply not true. Opposite is correct, if getting clean doesn’t hurt it’s far more likely for person to do so. And if person had positive experience with getting clean it’s far more likely if he/she fucks up again to try to get clean again than if process of getting clean was horror. Sadly experiencing horror wd’s renders more people to not even consider getting clean again (some even first time because they expect horror just not worth even trying it) than rendering people who’ll think – shit, I better stop, this is my third day on H and I really didn’t like wd’s first time, yeah no more H – and really stop/not use again, that’s nothing beyond romantic idea disregarding all parameters both leading person to addiction and wanting to stop.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

If it was true that it has to hurt, forced injections of naloxone/naltrexone would be most effective way to get clean and not to be almost totally abandoned as they are in most of developed world.
People in Niger get cured from codeine in a way they are tied to trees and it resulted in far more deaths both in process and after than in people not getting back to codeine ever again cuz it hurt them so much. Just two examples out of sea of similar ones.

 

[nznity]

No you wont feel absolutely any physical wd’s from switching to same dose of slow release. You might feel slight psychical problems at first but that’s limited mostly to hc cases and not for people using opiods for pain and stopping cuz they aren’t needed any-more. In case of stopping opiod use for pain and not getting high, significant chunk of people wont get any mental issues at all in that case and if they will it’ll stay limited to very mild symptoms like some insomnia, little bit of nervousness and such, nothing serious.

You're contradicting yourself, serious or not...like I said, you're still gonna feel some degree of WDs even if it's mild symptoms. Nobody gets free from opiates without feeling some sort of discomfort.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Yeah, let me correct myself, you might get mild physical symptoms only if you are stopping hc habit in that way but even if so that’ll be totally minuscule.

I still stand with everything else I wrote. Because of peak plasma concentrations just splitting dose into many small doses could work in theory but not really. As for example tramadol instant release will really work for only few hours while slow release will work 9 hours and more and to emulate that you would need to take few mg every x minutes and that just wouldn’t work.

This method really can work only for people who 100% decide they are ok with not getting high and it works perfectly in that way.

Again, if you gona push it and get over with it as fast as possible, which I prefer, some discomfort is felt, otherwise no. I mean jumping to extended release and lowering slowly, as I understand most people here prefer it is really possible to feel absolutely 0 physical discomfort and just a slight mental discomfort and again, even that is avoided by cca. 20% people stopping tramadol in max allowed dose (400 - 600mg depending on weight, sex etc) and rest will hardly call wd what they’ll experience. As for people on huge doses, obviously they’ll be better of adding something but will still hugely benefit from switching to slow release.

It’s also important for people who like I do use opiates for pain supplementing with non-opiod pain-relief pills is a must because all the things pain does to your brain. Being in pain and snorting a line of something that ease my pain is big part of pleasure once the tolerance kicks in, so doing everything to be pain free during cessation of opiates is important as otherwise most people will pop the pill, snort or whatever when pain gets intense enough and see pain as valid reason to keep abusing something as some of us in that way keep both pain and wd’s away, hugely complicating issues because of effects pain has on brain chemistry and mood/mind-set/mind...

 

[SpiralusSancti]

O yeah and don’t forget that what’s called in English coma therapy, I know people who went trough it and. By the time they wake you up (it isn’t exactly true induced coma which is more complicated and dangerous) absolutely all physical symptoms are unexistent cuz as someone wrote in other thread dr’s also add naltrexone/naloxone to mix and that way basically speed up going trough WD so much, that 10 days or so in case of H is more than enough to wake up without any physical craving, and far from any physical discomfort. Most people used to do that every year or few years and kept tolerance somewhat decent that way.

Why I’m mentioning that? Cuz if you have help, variation on that is easily doable at home. Not that fast and using naltrexone/naloxone is out of question but people can use low dose of sleeping-aid that suits you and knock out doses of weed. Thing is someone has to be with you as you have to eat so much edibles that you are in danger of suffocating by vomit but as with any substance that can kill you that way it’s easily prevented just by positioning person right way. Our bodies ain’t that useful even when working on autopilot while being knocked out and people don’t die from vomiting while laying on the side and while you wont shake violently as if naltrexone/naloxone was added you’ll roll over a lot for sure first few days.

I’m talking about getting clean of serious doses of H, not light dose of pills in which case knock out dose of weed isn’t going to make you vomit. As always there’s a catch. To find weed usable for this, no or low tolerance to it is needed. People have done this with olazapine and similar meds too, but I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone because of damage that kind of drugs can do in 2 – 3 weeks if used for 20h a day sleep isn’t worth the risk.

 

[Dextro .45]

If you’re dependant on short acting opioids (Oxy, H, HM, M, etc) count ur self lucky

I went cold turkey with moderate Clonidine and you’re outta the woods is 2 weeks

Day 1-3 are miserable
Day 3-7 are HORRIFIC

After a week you slowly start feeling better, 14 days your 99% ok

Physically you’re ok…..mentally you’re still an addict / opioid dependant user ….thinking of scoring, just once, just one little fat shot , as a treat for all the hell you went through

Clonidine 0.1mg (3 daily - after 5 days, taper down 2 day, slowly tapered further until half tablet X 2 daily, etc)
Pregabalin 150mg X 2 daily / Gabapentin 300mg X 3 daily
Low dose Diazepam 2/5mg in morning and before bed

Taking hi dose Methadone daily for years is far more complexed and drawn out

I read a lot of promising reviews of Memantine for opioid detoxification

For me, Clonidine, Pregabalin, and Diazepam would be a MUST

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I think memantine is a good stuff, I almost know it. If certain info in megathread is true I’ll be getting some this year and intend to dose (very) high immediately and after just small doses for its neuroprotective effects. I’m very comfortable both with dissos and long duration substances and it seems it has great therapeutic index so I intend to dive in deep, at worst I’ll be bored as some report at best it’ll be magnificent. I’ll be sure to prepare weed, nos and some other stuff and experiment with combos if it wont be interesting alone.

 

[WellTram]

The way to go imo are dissociatives like memantine which modulate mu opioid receptors to kind of forget the tolerance they built up against mu afonists.

I quit a 600mg/d morphine habit with pregabalin and memantine megadoses and didn't have to go through withdrawal. YMMV though but for me it worked.

What you suggest is just classical tapering or do I misunderstand it?

Why did memantine works for this And amantadine not ?

 

[plumbus-nine]

Why did memantine works for this And amantadine not ?

Memantine is a pretty selective and strong NMDA receptor antagonist and D2 agonist while amantadine is much weaker and hits other receptors.

 

[WellTram]

Memantine is a pretty selective and strong NMDA receptor antagonist and D2 agonist while amantadine is much weaker and hits other receptors.

Fromm my experience, amantadine greatly increase cognitive functions, energy a "feel good" feelings but Its not safe in high dosage or with Tramal (seizures).

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Taking hi dose Methadone daily for years is far more complexed and drawn out

All of what I wrote definitely can’t be applied to getting of methadone or bupe. Getting clean from those is whole another beast.

 

[kjob]

If you’re dependant on short acting opioids (Oxy, H, HM, M, etc) count ur self lucky

I went cold turkey with moderate Clonidine and you’re outta the woods is 2 weeks

Day 1-3 are miserable
Day 3-7 are HORRIFIC

After a week you slowly start feeling better, 14 days your 99% ok

Physically you’re ok…..mentally you’re still an addict / opioid dependant user ….thinking of scoring, just once, just one little fat shot , as a treat for all the hell you went through

Clonidine 0.1mg (3 daily - after 5 days, taper down 2 day, slowly tapered further until half tablet X 2 daily, etc)
Pregabalin 150mg X 2 daily / Gabapentin 300mg X 3 daily
Low dose Diazepam 2/5mg in morning and before bed

Taking hi dose Methadone daily for years is far more complexed and drawn out

I read a lot of promising reviews of Memantine for opioid detoxification

For me, Clonidine, Pregabalin, and Diazepam would be a MUST

Please tell me anything you can about quitting methadone after 5 mos. @ 130mg/day using 10mg memantine tablets and powder form.I am doing a 1 month taper w/13 bottles of 130mg methadone starting tomorrow and will probably get down to 1/2 over 30 days(60mg)methadone,thanks

 

[Hexenstahl]

If you’re dependant on short acting opioids (Oxy, H, HM, M, etc) count ur self lucky

I went cold turkey with moderate Clonidine and you’re outta the woods is 2 weeks

Day 1-3 are miserable
Day 3-7 are HORRIFIC

After a week you slowly start feeling better, 14 days your 99% ok

Physically you’re ok…..mentally you’re still an addict / opioid dependant user ….thinking of scoring, just once, just one little fat shot , as a treat for all the hell you went through

Clonidine 0.1mg (3 daily - after 5 days, taper down 2 day, slowly tapered further until half tablet X 2 daily, etc)
Pregabalin 150mg X 2 daily / Gabapentin 300mg X 3 daily
Low dose Diazepam 2/5mg in morning and before bed

Taking hi dose Methadone daily for years is far more complexed and drawn out

I read a lot of promising reviews of Memantine for opioid detoxification

For me, Clonidine, Pregabalin, and Diazepam would be a MUST

Can I take 150mg pregabalin for the first 3 days and then 20mg diazepam for the remaining 4 days without becoming dependent on either drug? Also, is there a cross tolerance between prega and benzos?

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Everyone must pay………you owe your brain a debt for all that feel good you enjoyed

 

[Jen X]

If it was true that it has to hurt, forced injections of naloxone/naltrexone would be most effective way to get clean and not to be almost totally abandoned as they are in most of developed world.
People in Niger get cured from codeine in a way they are tied to trees and it resulted in far more deaths both in process and after than in people not getting back to codeine ever again cuz it hurt them so much. Just two examples out of sea of similar ones.

In the past decade i've came off of heroin, fentanyl , methadone(the absolute worst), then recently hydromorph. I tapered them all and felt like shit each time. I stopped hydromorph at 1mg and still didn't sleep for a week.

Tapering is good but what addict would feel sick or be 3 nights sleepless without taking a bit more? Not many i've known of.

Can be less painful but everyone has to deal with some discomfort.