Television Game of Thrones

[Kenickie]

I think you might be mistaking blind conjecture for spoilers. I havent read anything past the first book...

well congratulations because as of book five they are all true.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

^
True that. The more medieval European history you read, the worse knights end up looking; commoners hated them, as many of them were little more than thugs with the safety of a title. There's a case to be made that the Crusades were made partly to get rid of a large population of idle French knights who were more trouble than they were worth at home.

Someone posted this awesome bit of continuity on another site. There are no real spoilers, but still...

"Continuity Really IS Important on Game of Thrones": http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/04/continuity-really-is-important-in-game-of-thrones/

That is incredible continuity.


I think I'm finally getting used to, and coming to terms with, the deviations from the books the show has taken. The first season so closely approximated the first book that I was a little bit pissed off when the second book came around and some of my favorite scenes, which I was looking forward to seeing filmed, were either changed dramatically or cut altogether. It was upsetting to me.

Ok, so the "Where are my dragons!" plot and the botching of the House of the Undying are still unforgivable. And honestly, the second season should have been at least 13 episodes, then they wouldn't have had to cut so much of it out. Maybe two eight episode seasons. But this season has been awesome so far despite the deviations, and now that I am acclimated to them, it's only a minor nuisance at times (like Snow's introduction to Mance and him not using the bastard table line).

I honestly wonder what they are going to do with the Feast and Dance plots. Because it looks like Dany's plot is advancing quite a bit quicker than it did in the books. Which means, we might be getting ready to advance through some Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons plots by the end of this season, or the beginning of the next one, which is still technically Storm of Swords.

 

[Kenickie]

bel, i'm surprised you didn't see that on reddit. you aren't a redditor?

 

[Belisarius]

bel, i'm surprised you didn't see that on reddit. you aren't a redditor?

[tangent]
I'm ashamed to say that I only go to Reddit once in a while for gonewild. -P There are some awesome subreddits (local, science, history, etc.) that I consider worth joining, though. Are you a redditor?

 

[Kenickie]

[tangent]
I'm ashamed to say that I only go to Reddit once in a while for gonewild. -P There are some awesome subreddits (local, science, history, etc.) that I consider worth joining, though. Are you a redditor?

dude

subscribed reddits:
game of thrones
atlanta
modern fashion porn
fashion
harry potter
harry potter fanfiction
slytherin (private reddit)
apple
new orleans
iphone
college football
nfl

im basically obsessed

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

I must be the odd man out because I enjoy seeing naked women. The brothel scenes are great; short and satisfying.

Screw that, give me more plot!

 

[95Land]

AGoT deconstructions that. Women in AGoT tend to occupy a position that is closer to that of medieval gender roles. Wars are often brutally violent, and those who suffer most tend to be those who lack power. Rape is whitewashed out of fantasy (as it is whitewashed out of history). AGoT does not whitewash it.

Another subject that isn't glossed over..... How much more painful and deadly childbirth was before the advent of modern medicine. Lyanna, Joanna Lannister, etc...
No epidurals and all that, I feel like it justifies Gilly's incessant, pained wailing at Craster's. At least to a degree.

That's supposed to be Vargo Hoat, right? It looks like his description. It's mildly disappointing that we didn't get more slobbering.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Another subject that isn't glossed over..... How much more painful and deadly childbirth was before the advent of modern medicine. Lyanna, Joanna Lannister, etc...
No epidurals and all that, I feel like it justifies Gilly's incessant, pained wailing at Craster's. At least to a degree.

Yep. Lots of pain, lots of wailing.

One other thing I like about ASoI&F: Cersei.

Books 1-5:
[spoil]In ways she espouses feminist thought when she mentions that except for her gender, she would be heir to Casterly Rock. She has a very valid gripe about how her position is limited due to her gender. But at the same time, she's not a fantasy feminist heroine - when she finally gains power due to various deaths, her flaws (as a human being - not as a woman) come into play, and she screws things up horribly. The character is both feminist and post-feminist: Feminist in how her position is limited by what she has between her legs, and post-feminist in that when she slips (somewhat) her chains, she's allowed to make the same mistakes as anyone else with her background and upbringing.[/spoil]

 

[95Land]

NSFW:

I thought the whole Sparrow's, imprisonment by the High Septon, Walk of Penance, etc, etc, was a little overdone. But, I don't think any other undoing would have been satisfying short of a self destruction.
She did have everything she needed to be what she wanted to be. Short of self awareness. Male or female, no matter, still a fatal flaw. IOW's, I agree.

I'm looking forward to Aurane Water's return in the next book(s). I found him one of her more enjoyable errs. Making off with the fleet and all.
I was reading something about a conspiracy involving Water's, Patchface, and the Manderley's.
There is a obscene amount of fan theories, writing, predictions on Reddit. Almost too much.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

NSFW:

I thought the whole Sparrow's, imprisonment by the High Septon, Walk of Penance, etc, etc, was a little overdone. But, I don't think any other undoing would have been satisfying short of a self destruction.
She did have everything she needed to be what she wanted to be. Short of self awareness. Male or female, no matter, still a fatal flaw. IOW's, I agree.

I'm looking forward to Aurane Water's return in the next book(s). I found him one of her more enjoyable errs. Making off with the fleet and all.
I was reading something about a conspiracy involving Water's, Patchface, and the Manderley's.
There is a obscene amount of fan theories, writing, predictions on Reddit. Almost too much.

NSFW:

I'm not so sure that this will be her undoing. With Varys invested in keeping her in power until Aegon comes around, and all that, purely due to her incompetence.

On the other hand, I believe that the Hound is the Sparrow's chosen warrior for this bout, allowing him his final battle with his brother Gregor, even though he is a zombie. There was evidence in Feast for Crows that the Hound was chilling at that island Brienne and Podrick went to with the septons, such as his horse being there.

 

[motherofearth]

Finally got a chance to see it and I agree there was an off-putting emphasis on rape.

NSFW:

I have not read book 5, so I do not know if that sodomy gang rape goes down in the literature, but coupled w/ the extensive and protracted attempted rape of Brienne, it all culminated to be too much for me. I thought the brothel scene was w/e....

 

[1Love4me]

I was wondering the same thing about Vargo Hoat....I thought there would be waaaay more slobbering. But that is him?

 

[95Land]

^It sorta looks like him. Goatee, thin, longish hair.
He is missing his coin coat and the Qohorish coat of arms. It could kind of make sense for them to be under flayed man banners.
I guess more than anything, I was hoping, but not really expecting them to go full out with The Bloody Mummer's. It would have been fun to watch. Zollo, Shagwell, etc.
Maybe tomorrow his tongue will swell back up and we'll get the VH we know and love. .

NSFW:

I'm not so sure that this will be her undoing. With Varys invested in keeping her in power until Aegon comes around, and all that, purely due to her incompetence.

On the other hand, I believe that the Hound is the Sparrow's chosen warrior for this bout, allowing him his final battle with his brother Gregor, even though he is a zombie. There was evidence in Feast for Crows that the Hound was chilling at that island Brienne and Podrick went to with the septons, such as his horse being there.

NSFW:

I suppose I mean her eventual, total undoing. You're definitely right that, with Kevan Lannister murdered, it seems Varys and Illyrio would like her to be able to step back into power and blunder on for as long as they need to set up the Targaryen's.
The trial thing will be interesting. If Margaery gets exonerated in her trial, she'd immediately have the power to cut Cersei off at the knees. Why the trial by combat is so important, of course....

That's interesting, for sure. The Hound finding religion. I've always pretty much assumed he's still alive as well.
I wonder just how much of Gregor is actually left beyond his body. As in, was there a head swap or something like that performed and that's why he can't speak, he won't take the helmet off, etc.

 

[1Love4me]

That was another reason I wasn't sure, the coin coat. Also, they didn't look like the Bloody Mummers I read about.. I understand that these are trivial things but I guess I was expecting the show to do more with the Bloody Mummers and their appearance. I also have issues with Ramsey Snow. Is he the one that is helping Theon escape? and killing his own men? Cause if it is, I was expecting someone a lot more sinister looking.

 

[Belisarius]

NSFW:

I'm the odd-man-out in thinking the Hound is dead; the only evidence I saw for his (perhaps) continued survival is the fact that that priest seemed to know an awful lot about the Hound's grievances.

 

[1Love4me]

NSFW:

I'm the odd-man-out in thinking the Hound is dead; the only evidence I saw for his (perhaps) continued survival is the fact that that priest seemed to know an awful lot about the Hound's grievances.

I agree with you

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

NSFW:

I'm the odd-man-out in thinking the Hound is dead; the only evidence I saw for his (perhaps) continued survival is the fact that that priest seemed to know an awful lot about the Hound's grievances.

(Book series)

NSFW:

There's also the new tall gravedigger with a limp.

Anyways, as for the future:

(Speculation beyond book #5):

NSFW:

I think Cersei needs to regain power for Varys's plans. If he wants to seat Aegon on the throne, the Lannisters are never going to agree. As long as Margaery is engaged to Tommen, Highgarden (with its armies mostly unaffected by the War of the Five Kings) can bring their weight into play. But if Cersei is back in power, she's going to attempt to push Margaery out. Margaery fleeing back to Hightower, the engagement to Tommen dissolved, helps Varys. Especially since Margaery has no qualms about marrying for power, and Aegon is (as of yet) unattached. An Aegon/Marg engagement helps Aegon a lot - he can add Hightower's military might to Dorne's and the sellswords.

 

[95Land]

You people are asmart....

NSFW:

I couldn't figure how The Hound would have gotten converted. I don't know why I forget this shit.
The septon had a dog named Dog. A dog the gravedigger stopped and scratched behind the ear. It came back to me.
Anyhow......
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/60808-the-gravedigging-hound-complete-analysis/
He's still alive. He's the gravedigger.
Seems like he thinks he's done with violence, but, like 3,4-dihydroxyphen suggested, it makes quite a bit of sense that perhaps the only way he gets brought out of retirement is to kill what's left of his brother.

I've got like 3-4 books I'm halfway through and I wanna finish the shows season.
After I finish all that, I think I want to reread the books. There is so much hidden within the pages.

Regarding The Bloody Mummer's- I also feel somewhat let down when some of the more colorful characters are left out of the show.
Then I think about how much sense it would make to the casual viewer, whether it's truly worth it. I suppose it's not, if it doesn't effect the course of the plot.
Unfortunately, leaving out most or all The Mummer's is ultimately inconsequential. It just sucks for us.
I was disappointed that Butterbumps was left out. Belwas.... It is what it is.

NSFW:

That is the Bastard of Bolton. I have no clue why they had him kill his own men or why he's now running around with Theon, unless he brought him right back to the Dreadfort.
Personally, I like the look of the actor they chose. I know he's supposed to be fatter, grosser, but he's been incognito the whole time so far. I'm gonna reserve judgement until I see how eviled up the actor can get.

 

[marissaaaaaa]

That is incredible continuity.


I think I'm finally getting used to, and coming to terms with, the deviations from the books the show has taken. The first season so closely approximated the first book that I was a little bit pissed off when the second book came around and some of my favorite scenes, which I was looking forward to seeing filmed, were either changed dramatically or cut altogether. It was upsetting to me.

Ok, so the "Where are my dragons!" plot and the botching of the House of the Undying are still unforgivable. And honestly, the second season should have been at least 13 episodes, then they wouldn't have had to cut so much of it out. Maybe two eight episode seasons. But this season has been awesome so far despite the deviations, and now that I am acclimated to them, it's only a minor nuisance at times (like Snow's introduction to Mance and him not using the bastard table line).

I honestly wonder what they are going to do with the Feast and Dance plots. Because it looks like Dany's plot is advancing quite a bit quicker than it did in the books. Which means, we might be getting ready to advance through some Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons plots by the end of this season, or the beginning of the next one, which is still technically Storm of Swords.

Screw that, give me more plot!

i go backwards, watch the show then read the book. i never do this so i figured i'd give it a shot, it helps me enjoy the show more to be honest. i'm a nitpicker with adaptations. and i totally agree with you on the dany stuff! watching season 2 i was like...hmm...pretty good but not as good as last season. read the book and was WOWED at what was going on with her. i was really upset how whiney they made her in comparison last season.
she seems to be coming back strong now though.

Finally got a chance to see it and I agree there was an off-putting emphasis on rape.

NSFW:

I have not read book 5, so I do not know if that sodomy gang rape goes down in the literature, but coupled w/ the extensive and protracted attempted rape of Brienne, it all culminated to be too much for me. I thought the brothel scene was w/e....

THANK YOUUU. thank you.
it ruined the episode to me to be perfectly honest. i loathed it.

That was another reason I wasn't sure, the coin coat. Also, they didn't look like the Bloody Mummers I read about.. I understand that these are trivial things but I guess I was expecting the show to do more with the Bloody Mummers and their appearance. I also have issues with Ramsey Snow. Is he the one that is helping Theon escape? and killing his own men? Cause if it is, I was expecting someone a lot more sinister looking.

yeah, i'm fucking confused as fuck about all of the things you said.
#1, i have no idea what the continuity is with harrenhall because i get mixed up between what happened in the show and the book with arya. i just started book 3, only a few chapters in.
so, the mummers. are they the brotherhood?? or are they northmen?
are they the one's who cut of jaime's hand, or the one's who found arya, gendry, and hot pie??(didn't get that far in the book)
erm, and reek/ramsay. from what i recall in clash, reek was a guy theon like captured at winterfell, who then turned around and was like I AM RAMSAY EAT MY SHORTS and then took theon. and it was all ike WOAH YOU ARE STRAIGHT FUCKED NOW THIS GUYS NUTS AND SO IS HIS FREAKY LEECH LOVING DAD.
am i right? but there was no reek in the show.
so, was the person torturing theon supposed to be reek/ramsay, or was that guy who saved him supposed to be him?

fucking changes are making me SO CONFUSED.
and starting storm i'm extra confused in some spots too.
i wish i still had clash on me but i gave it to my boyfriend (in fucking like january and he still hasn't read ANY OF IT. chode.), so i can't check some of these things.
thanks

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

IIRC, the Bloody Mummers (in the book) are originally used by Tywin and are in control of Harrenhal, but they betray the Lannisters and go for the Boltons, turning Harrenhal over to them. In order to drive a ensure that the Boltons stay loyal to the Starks, they disfigure Jaime; figuring that once Jaime is maimed, the Lannisters will blame the Boltons.

The brotherhood without banners (in the books) are derived from the group Ned Stark sent out to hunt down the Mountain. They kind of went feral after Robert and Ned's deaths, and are still trying to carry out their original goal, as well as protecting smallfolk.

Reek (in the books) was a companion of Ramsey. When Ramsey's crimes became known, the Starks sent men to hunt him down, but the Stark men killed Reek, thinking he was Ramsey, and drug back "Reek" (actually Ramsey). Theon, occupying Winterfell, starts to rely on "Reek", and ends up trusting him. When the Northmen look like they are going to take back Winterfell from the Ironborn, "Reek" ends up saying he'll head out to the Boltons for help. "Reek" returns with an army, and promptly betrays Theon, revealing himself to be Ramsey.