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Gabapentinoids Gabapentin for taper?

OceansState

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 29, 2024
Messages
149
I've been taking Loperamide for 10+ years and finally decided to stop. I recently tried to stop completely but it didnt go as planned, I couldn't handle the withdrawals so started back. Thankfully i've lowered my dose by more than half, now im taking 35 tabs/day. Now my plan is to taper slowly, maybe by 1 tab every other day depending on how i feel.

My Dr. prescribed me gabapentin 300mg capsules today, starting 1 cap a day then moving to 3 tabs a day. I dont really want to take it daily or long term fearing another addiction. What can I expect from Gabapentin, what is the best way to utilize it for my taper, can I expect to taper more quickly? Is it for mood also, or more for the physical withdrawals? I haven't taken it yet, I currently feel ok.
 
I have taken gabapentin for wd from various opiates but mostly morphine in recent years. It helps wd from all opiates in my opinion so it should help wd from loperamide me thinks. Lope is basically a opioid that doesent cross the blood brain barrier in prescribed doses. Or slightly higher doses for opioid wd in my experience. The most lope ive ever taken was about 16mg's for fent wd i think and it only helped diarrhea nothing else not even my stomach cramps.

Gabapentin helps symptoms like restless leg syndrome, somewhat helps with anxiety and also that overll horrible feeling of restlessness that opioid wd causes.

You want to take gabapentin with food. Also be wary of addiction. Your on the same dose as me and if i took mine everyday now id be dependent on it again. But as i don't want to be dependent on it right now i skip days and take it in high doses with my morphine as thats a good combo.
 
In my follow-up today with my Dr I was telling her how my attempt at CT went, how by the 3rd night my arms and legs tingled and I couldn't sleep from then on. Thats when she brought up Gabapentin to take.
 
In my follow-up today with my Dr I was telling her how my attempt at CT went, how by the 3rd night my arms and legs tingled and I couldn't sleep from then on. Thats when she brought up Gabapentin to take.

Well gabapentin is a good med for opioid wd. Gabapentin+ a benzo is a fantastic combo for opioid wd. Stops the restless legs and overall restless feeling like no other combo.
 
Since I use a tele-health service/video chat to see a Dr. I'm not sure they would prescribe any controlled meds.

Prior to my follow-up yesterday with the Dr. I was actually searching around for info on Gabapentin and was going to ask for a script, but luckily the Dr. brought it up first so I just went with it. I have to say I was skeptical using a tele-health service but its actually going very well, save a lot of money from going to see a Dr. locally and I feel more comfortable chatting thru the phone than sitting face to face with someone.

Last night I felt very good, I think going out shopping and interacting with people elevated my mood.

I slept great, had a weird dream that I cant remember. I woke up early and was able to close my eyes and sleep some more which hardly ever happens.

Got up and felt ok, took 30 tabs of loperamide instead of 35, a gummi vitamin and gummi magnesium, then a 300mg cap of Gabapentin and currently feel normal and good. I wonder if the vitamins and magnesium have something to do with it, my diet is horrible and unhealthy so I got the supplements to see if it helps. Cant wait to see how I feel tomorrow morning, either stay at 30 Loperamide or may even lower it again. I'm just happy I have lowered my dose by more than half in around 1 week and I'm comfortable, feeling good physically and mentally .
 
I've been taking Loperamide for 10+ years and finally decided to stop. I recently tried to stop completely but it didnt go as planned, I couldn't handle the withdrawals so started back. Thankfully i've lowered my dose by more than half, now im taking 35 tabs/day. Now my plan is to taper slowly, maybe by 1 tab every other day depending on how i feel.

My Dr. prescribed me gabapentin 300mg capsules today, starting 1 cap a day then moving to 3 tabs a day. I dont really want to take it daily or long term fearing another addiction. What can I expect from Gabapentin, what is the best way to utilize it for my taper, can I expect to taper more quickly? Is it for mood also, or more for the physical withdrawals? I haven't taken it yet, I currently feel ok.
900 mg. A day of gabapentin in 300 mg doses three times a day in my personal experience is not going to result in any kind of discontinuation syndrome that you have to worry about.

Could you have some uncomfortable symptoms resulting in a discontinuation taper of that medication once you've gotten off the loperamide? Possibly.

Is it likely to be significant? No, it's not likely.

I've been on 800 mg three times a day for 2400 mg dose daily for many months and total time on gabapentin for over 3 years starting at 900 mg a day increasing to 1800 mg a day and then 2400 mg a day.

The discontinuation syndrome during the 3-week taper to get off 2400 mg a day to zero. Was uncomfortable but nothing compared to any real drug withdrawal.

Do some people experience bad gabapentin withdrawals? Absolutely, But it's usually people who have taken multigram doses a day as part of abusing the drug.
 
I decided to take another 300mg Gabapentin at night thinking it may help me sleep. At first i feel asleep no problem but kept waking, sweating just a little, feeling hot instead of cold like I always do, and it felt like the tingling in my arms and legs was about to happen but never did. Felt like my BP was raised so I got up and took a Clonidine. Was able to fall asleep but kept waking periodically.

Got up when it was light and actually felt ok, good almost. I noticed my pupils were big, instead of really pinned like they have been forever for years (except for the few days I went CT and felt like garbage).

Had to go to the bathroom which was surprising, usually have to later in the morning. Took 2 tabs of Loperamide just for the bathroom issue with my Crohns. Then I took 3 grams kratom I have laying around, then took another 2.5 grams a few hours later and I feel fine. i did take another 300mg Gabapentin cap with some food, I think it makes me feel a little spacey in my head.

Wonder if I can quit the Loperamide altogether now and just take a little kratom to help from feeling bad. If i can stop the Loperamide that would be insane, since just over a week ago I was taking 70+ tabs/day.
 
Yesterday late evening I took 600mg Gabapentin and will say my body felt very comfortable, perfect to lay on the couch and watch some movies.

Went to bed and could not sleep, couldnt get comfortable like the start of withdrawals. Little bit of sweating, slight tingling in my arms but not bad, just enough to annoy me. Kept having to go sit on the couch since it felt more comfortable. Decided to take 600mg gabapentin, 1 clonidine and then 2 grams kratom at some point. Was able to get some broken sleep but wasnt good.

Got up this morning and started feeling better. Had to go to the bathroom so took 2 tabs Loperamide after to calm my stomach. Took 3 grams Kratom then another 2.5 grams 2hrs later. I took another 300mg Gabapentin and currently feel good.

This is day 2 of only taking 2 tabs Loperamide which is fantastic. Im not a fan of the Gabapentin, seems to bring my energy and motivation down and my brain feels foggy. Think i'll stop taking it for now.

Just ordered some Kratom in capsules, 500 count pack .5g each cap. I currently have powder and its a pain filling the capsules. My plan is to keep taking the Kratom and slowly lower the dose.

Is 8 grams of Kratom a day alot?
 
@OceansState , Good morning. Hope this finds you well
Hows it going? Thank you for the posts. I am in a similar boat with Norco, 10/325.
I have been on it for 10+ years and would like to get off ( Maybe??)
I have Gabipentin, Kratom, and THC gummies as well.
The lack of sleep is my worst part of WDs, and PAWS is not fun either?
 
I kind of feel that the most obvious way out of this would be to do a slow taper as opposed to trying to do it all at once. This is a very common issue I run into with folks. I've been through this myself, so I totally understand where you're coming from. You reach the point where you've had enough, you tell yourself you're gonna solve the problem and you rush into it with good intentions. The thing is, doing it all at once is generally not the most likely method of success.

You have these pills that are already in small, individual dosing units which makes things a lot easier. Like you said, I think the best way of going forward is to do it slowly and methodically. If you go slowly enough, you shouldn't have to deal with extreme symptoms of withdrawal. The hardest part will likely be at the very end of your taper, which is when you can start reaching for the comfort medications like Gabapentin. You ideally only want to use the Gabapentin for ~2 weeks if you're looking to completely avoid tolerance/dependence, though it's not out of the question to be on it for a month and still get away unscathed. The maximum effectiveness of the drug however is going to be in that first two weeks.

@Iceman1216 on here we often talk about volumetric dosing as a means of performing a similarly slow taper when you only have pills that are of relatively high dose. A lot of people are put off by this suggestion as it seems difficult. It really isn't difficult at all if you have a basic understanding of fractions/decimals like I think we all have here. Sure you can break a pill in half and perhaps even quarters, but after that, you really can't do anything with any kind of accuracy.

Say you have a 10mg Hydrocodone (Vicodin) tablet. You get an oral syringe from the pharmacy. They will give you one for free if you ask the pharmacist, though they also sell them for a few bucks. They will typically come in increments of 10ml and these are of course divided, so you can easily measure 1ml at a time.

You take a Hydrocodone tablet and you crush it into powder. You take a glass or whatever vessel you want to use, it could be a pill bottle for instance. You then fill the syringe with 10ml water. Transfer the powder into your vessel and add the 10ml water. Mix thoroughly until you have a solution. The solution will likely be stable after mixing, though it's a good idea to mix it each time just to be extra sure.

Now, you have increments of 1mg Hydrocodone that you couldn't get easily otherwise. Want to take it a step further? Fill that same vessel with 20ml of water, now each 1ml increment you draw up will contain 0.5mg Hydrocodone.

Now, let's say you're taking a total of 60mg Hydrocodone per day, if you reduce by 1mg every week, you could theoretically be close to the end of your taper after one year of commitment. If that's too quick, you can do 1mg every 10 days or 0.5mg every week. At the latter pace, you will be totally done at the end of 2 years.

A lot of people make the mistake of saying, "but that's too much time, I need this to be done right now". I've thought this myself. I've been there too. However, a lot of people end up stuck in the same place for their entire life because they're not willing to accept the long-term plan. 2 years is like the blink of an eye in the span of an entire life, right?

If anyone needs/wants any information about volumetric dosing, we can definitely talk about it further.
 
I am down to 10-15 mgs of Hydro a day.
just can not seem to finish this job!!
Will i be on them for the rest of my life??
Maybe at 64 there is a lot more behind me than in front.
 
I am down to 10-15 mgs of Hydro a day.
just can not seem to finish this job!!
Will i be on them for the rest of my life??
Maybe at 64 there is a lot more behind me than in front.

So you take 10 pills a day of the Hydrocodone?

It is 100% doable to get off. years ago I got myself off Suboxone by doing a taper, but i remember being prescribed Wellbutrin and Gabapentin also while doing it. I think i may have also been taking trazadone at night to sleep.

looks like your taking 150mg Hydro/day. I was taking at least 140mg Loperamide/day, I would usually take more, maybe an extra 40mg. I was buying 2 bottles of 300 tabs each of Loperamide weekly. This was over 10+ years, it was easier in the beginning since they sold big bottles on the shelf at local stores cheap, that stopped so i found a place only that has big bottles. Anyways, not the point.

Feb 26th I went CT off Loperamide using only Clonidine, taking 0.1 maybe 6 times a day. I made it to day 5 before i threw in the towel, I couldn't take feeling like garbage and being totally useless. I wasn't even showering or eating, i lost weight that short time. That day I kept taking 20 tabs loperamide every 2hrs and didint feel better. Same thing the next day, finally felt ok. The next day Monday I only took 35 tabs and felt ok/good. From then on I knew I at least dropped my dose in half. That was just taking Loperamide, nothing else.

I contacted my Dr. who is thru telehealth, video chat basically, and told her what happened. I talked to her prior to CT and told her everything, she never heard of anyone taking high doses Loperamide so i said it feels like opiate withdrawals which she is familiar with.

I told her i want to taper, but have severe RLS at night. I also told her I was very sad/depressed. She prescribed the Gabapentin for "anxiety" and the RLS. She prescribed Wellbutrin for the sadness/depression. i took Kratom on my own, didnt mention that to her.

So i started taking the Kratom and Gabapentin and winged it, Lowered the Loperamide to 30 tabs/day and see how I felt for 3 days, then lowered it again because i felt ok. I wasn't following a plan, other than lowering the dose so I still felt ok, never increasing the dose. It turned out to be surprisingly easy, hardly nay negative symptoms except lazy, sad still, and the worste no sleep at night.

Im day 18 i think no Loperamide. Sleep is still crap, maybe 2-3hrs a night if im lucky. I cant just lay in bed because I get restless so im always going back to my couch watching movies. I dont even turn my tv off when I go to bed because I know ill be back an hour later. I think the Wellbutrin helps with energy/no sleep because I'm never really tired during the day.

Im now at the point of lowering the kratom and gabapentin. i now have 600mg gabapentin pills that I break in half for only 300mg at a time, taken 2-3 times a day as needed. Ill take one when I start feeling restless, the sweating on my lower back kinda feeling. The kratom I seem to take it for a mood booster and for motivation. I have Clonidine but hardly take it, i would take it at night thinking it will help me sleep but i think a dose of Kratom works better to be honest.

Im just winging it. I like writing my progress down on this site so I can look back and see. It took me about 1 month to stop the Loperamide, which I never thought possible. Now i think im just dealing with the side effects of being on it so long. i have no idea how long it will last, but I feel ok.
I
 
I keep forgetting to ask my Dr for trazadone. But to be honest the no sleep doesnt really bother me because im not tired during the day. i think its due to the Wellbutrin. 150mg XL once a day in the morning.
 
I often see people trying to get off opioids but using kratom to ease the withdrawal symptoms from their actual opioid of choice. How does this actually work? You keep hitting those same receptors with kratom, don't you? I was under the impression that would make you still actively addicted to opioids and not really going through the withdrawal.
 
So you take 10 pills a day of the Hydrocodone?

It is 100% doable to get off. years ago I got myself off Suboxone by doing a taper, but i remember being prescribed Wellbutrin and Gabapentin also while doing it. I think i may have also been taking trazadone at night to sleep.

looks like your taking 150mg Hydro/day. I was taking at least 140mg Loperamide/day, I would usually take more, maybe an extra 40mg. I was buying 2 bottles of 300 tabs each of Loperamide weekly. This was over 10+ years, it was easier in the beginning since they sold big bottles on the shelf at local stores cheap, that stopped so i found a place only that has big bottles. Anyways, not the point.

Feb 26th I went CT off Loperamide using only Clonidine, taking 0.1 maybe 6 times a day. I made it to day 5 before i threw in the towel, I couldn't take feeling like garbage and being totally useless. I wasn't even showering or eating, i lost weight that short time. That day I kept taking 20 tabs loperamide every 2hrs and didint feel better. Same thing the next day, finally felt ok. The next day Monday I only took 35 tabs and felt ok/good. From then on I knew I at least dropped my dose in half. That was just taking Loperamide, nothing else.

I contacted my Dr. who is thru telehealth, video chat basically, and told her what happened. I talked to her prior to CT and told her everything, she never heard of anyone taking high doses Loperamide so i said it feels like opiate withdrawals which she is familiar with.

I told her i want to taper, but have severe RLS at night. I also told her I was very sad/depressed. She prescribed the Gabapentin for "anxiety" and the RLS. She prescribed Wellbutrin for the sadness/depression. i took Kratom on my own, didnt mention that to her.

So i started taking the Kratom and Gabapentin and winged it, Lowered the Loperamide to 30 tabs/day and see how I felt for 3 days, then lowered it again because i felt ok. I wasn't following a plan, other than lowering the dose so I still felt ok, never increasing the dose. It turned out to be surprisingly easy, hardly nay negative symptoms except lazy, sad still, and the worste no sleep at night.

Im day 18 i think no Loperamide. Sleep is still crap, maybe 2-3hrs a night if im lucky. I cant just lay in bed because I get restless so im always going back to my couch watching movies. I dont even turn my tv off when I go to bed because I know ill be back an hour later. I think the Wellbutrin helps with energy/no sleep because I'm never really tired during the day.

Im now at the point of lowering the kratom and gabapentin. i now have 600mg gabapentin pills that I break in half for only 300mg at a time, taken 2-3 times a day as needed. Ill take one when I start feeling restless, the sweating on my lower back kinda feeling. The kratom I seem to take it for a mood booster and for motivation. I have Clonidine but hardly take it, i would take it at night thinking it will help me sleep but i think a dose of Kratom works better to be honest.

Im just winging it. I like writing my progress down on this site so I can look back and see. It took me about 1 month to stop the Loperamide, which I never thought possible. Now i think im just dealing with the side effects of being on it so long. i have no idea how long it will last, but I feel ok.
I
Thank you! Congratulations on your "Freedom from Loperamide"!!!
I have tapered to 1-2 Hydrocodone pills a day. I have script for 10/325 mg generic pills and I cut them down to 2.5/80mgs. so I take a small dose through out the day.
I read so many posts here on how people CT high numbers and get free, Why the hell cant I??
But it is early morning here and will just keep trying. ' Easy does It"
I have been on these for over 10years as well, since cancer treatments, so I will not get off them overnight!?!?
 
I often see people trying to get off opioids but using kratom to ease the withdrawal symptoms from their actual opioid of choice. How does this actually work? You keep hitting those same receptors with kratom, don't you? I was under the impression that would make you still actively addicted to opioids and not really going through the withdrawal.


I have the same questions. I know little to nothing about long term Kratom use except what I come across online. From my understanding from articles of studies on Kratom it does hit the Mu-opioid receptor but only partially, or not to the full extent opiates do.

https://nida.nih.gov/research-topics/kratom#kratom-compounds

I've read if you take it once or twice a week its totally fine. Then I've read of people taking it daily for months or years at "high" doses and they say the withdrawals are pretty intense. But then some say they hardly have any negative symptoms stopping after taking it moderately.

For me I made a choice to stop Loperamide, period. I tried cold turkey and failed, so my next option was to taper. I personally cannot deal with withdrawal symptoms that last a long time. When I went CT off Loperamide I was ready to feel like garbage for a week, I planned to stay home and just do it, but the more I read the more I saw people saying there withdrawals from loperamide lasted weeks, and I just cant deal with that.

In my mind I think Kratom withdrawal will be much easier than Loperamide withdrawals. I got the Kratom capsules, 0.5g each, and take 1.5g doses 4-5 times a day. Its less now probably 3-4 times a day. So if anything I can slowly taper off Kratom. Plus I have Clonidine if needed.
 
Thank you! Congratulations on your "Freedom from Loperamide"!!!
I have tapered to 1-2 Hydrocodone pills a day. I have script for 10/325 mg generic pills and I cut them down to 2.5/80mgs. so I take a small dose through out the day.
I read so many posts here on how people CT high numbers and get free, Why the hell cant I??
But it is early morning here and will just keep trying. ' Easy does It"
I have been on these for over 10years as well, since cancer treatments, so I will not get off them overnight!?!?

Oh wow, your down to only 1-2 pills a day. That is great. I also know how you feel, frustrated with only taking a small amount but still feel withdrawals trying to stop. I experienced it with Suboxone, I was getting 8mg tabs and was trying to break them up taking smaller doses, then I finally asked for the 2mg tabs and was breaking those up into smaller pieces. I never took them normally though, id crush and grind them into powder with a credit card on a piece of paper and divide the lines up and bump them. Fold up the paper to store the rest for later. I don't recommend this especially with Hydro, just telling my experience.

I think you are right, since you have been taking the drug for so long your body will take some time to adjust.

When you try to stop or even lower your dose how do you feel? I know Clonidine helps with anxiety and made my body comfortable in general. It did nothing for the tingles/RLS at night though. I remember my body sweating like crazy when I was withdrawaling years ago, the Clonidine really helped with that.
 
When I lower, Stop, I feel like shit!! As withdrawals always do.
I had never wanted to get as deep in to another addiction as I did with Alcohol my True Love and DOC.
But Hydro just made many thing easier, work, family, stress, anxiety. You know the drill.
I may ask for Clonidine?? I am on a low dose of BP medicine now?
Just not sure I will stop the Hydro?

How you doing?
I have enjoyed all your posts.
As I learned in Rehab, its not a Substance,
"Its the disease of ADDICTION"
 
I kind of feel that the most obvious way out of this would be to do a slow taper as opposed to trying to do it all at once. This is a very common issue I run into with folks. I've been through this myself, so I totally understand where you're coming from. You reach the point where you've had enough, you tell yourself you're gonna solve the problem and you rush into it with good intentions. The thing is, doing it all at once is generally not the most likely method of success.

You have these pills that are already in small, individual dosing units which makes things a lot easier. Like you said, I think the best way of going forward is to do it slowly and methodically. If you go slowly enough, you shouldn't have to deal with extreme symptoms of withdrawal. The hardest part will likely be at the very end of your taper, which is when you can start reaching for the comfort medications like Gabapentin. You ideally only want to use the Gabapentin for ~2 weeks if you're looking to completely avoid tolerance/dependence, though it's not out of the question to be on it for a month and still get away unscathed. The maximum effectiveness of the drug however is going to be in that first two weeks.

@Iceman1216 on here we often talk about volumetric dosing as a means of performing a similarly slow taper when you only have pills that are of relatively high dose. A lot of people are put off by this suggestion as it seems difficult. It really isn't difficult at all if you have a basic understanding of fractions/decimals like I think we all have here. Sure you can break a pill in half and perhaps even quarters, but after that, you really can't do anything with any kind of accuracy.

Say you have a 10mg Hydrocodone (Vicodin) tablet. You get an oral syringe from the pharmacy. They will give you one for free if you ask the pharmacist, though they also sell them for a few bucks. They will typically come in increments of 10ml and these are of course divided, so you can easily measure 1ml at a time.

You take a Hydrocodone tablet and you crush it into powder. You take a glass or whatever vessel you want to use, it could be a pill bottle for instance. You then fill the syringe with 10ml water. Transfer the powder into your vessel and add the 10ml water. Mix thoroughly until you have a solution. The solution will likely be stable after mixing, though it's a good idea to mix it each time just to be extra sure.

Now, you have increments of 1mg Hydrocodone that you couldn't get easily otherwise. Want to take it a step further? Fill that same vessel with 20ml of water, now each 1ml increment you draw up will contain 0.5mg Hydrocodone.

Now, let's say you're taking a total of 60mg Hydrocodone per day, if you reduce by 1mg every week, you could theoretically be close to the end of your taper after one year of commitment. If that's too quick, you can do 1mg every 10 days or 0.5mg every week. At the latter pace, you will be totally done at the end of 2 years.

A lot of people make the mistake of saying, "but that's too much time, I need this to be done right now". I've thought this myself. I've been there too. However, a lot of people end up stuck in the same place for their entire life because they're not willing to accept the long-term plan. 2 years is like the blink of an eye in the span of an entire life, right?

If anyone needs/wants any information about volumetric dosing, we can definitely talk about it further.
I tried going CT off morphine and Ativan(lorazepam) at the same time. I thought I was going to die. However I had only been on them for 7 years or so. Lol, why? I am going to have to go with sheer stupidity. I am talking about myself, I can call myself stupid right, I don't know I am stupid.
 
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