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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Future of Drug Laws in the UK- Get your unfounded speculation here.

Make no mistake, poppies are grown all over for pharmaceuticals, UK, NZ, India exports a lot too, but Afghanistan is where a lot of the illegal opium comes from.
 
No the NHS don't. The NHS is struggling to source enough opium for medicine at the moment (unless I just imagined it) which is why it's so stooopid they don't just buy up the Afghani crop. Opium is produced for the pharmaceutical industry in loads of places but nowhere near on a big enough scale to meet demands. At least that's what I've seen mentioned these last few years when there have been worldwide shortages. Maybe supplies have picked up again recently. Dunno. They should still buy the Afghan crop. Although that really would screw the heroin trade so maybe better they don't :D
 
^The United States, Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand consume 95% of all the morphine in the world. There are reasons for this other than the cost, but that's certainly a major factor, and the regulation involved is a large part of that cost. The world is in pain, and laxer drug laws could alleviate that pain. I think we tend to see (or wider society tends to see) the campaign for drug legalisation as a selfish one, based on our desire to get high, when in fact a lot of the suffering in the world could be avoided.
 
Yerg said:
^The United States, Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand consume 95% of all the morphine in the world. There are reasons for this other than the cost, but that's certainly a major factor, and the regulation involved is a large part of that cost. The world is in pain, and laxer drug laws could alleviate that pain. I think we tend to see (or wider society tends to see) the campaign for drug legalisation as a selfish one, based on our desire to get high, when in fact a lot of the suffering in the world could be avoided.
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Laxer drug laws would lead to more cases of people trying to self medicate though. I don't think self medication is wise at all...people will fall into addiction, people will overdose, not from trying to get high, but from trying to relieve their pain. I don't think enough self-medicating people will fully understand the risks of unchecked opiate/benzodiazepine/other drug use.

In a way, taking drugs to get high for a good time is a healthier habit. It's not to run from problems, or intentionally inflict harm. It's less self-destructive. I'm all for laxer drug laws, but they must arrive coupled with a huge government effort to properly educate every single citizen in Britain about every single drug going. They need to dedicate serious time and money to researching every recreational/pain managing drug, need to discover the risks and benefits long before the users do.

Unless the government has an attitude as responsible and honest as this, legalisation would be a disaster. Legalisation cannot happen for cynical, selfish reasons. It must happen with the nation's health as its fundamental core.
 
^I wasn't really talking about legalisation for individual domestic consumers, I was talking about laxer international laws on the production and consumption of pharmaceutical opiates.
 
I inclined to agree with Shamble, I think there is a lot of new thought in the UK government just now about looking for a better approach to takling controlled substances and the people thinking those thoughts are likely looking at portugal for inspiration.

The whole MCat scenario was handled attrociously and reading some of the house of lords debate transacipts at the time was sometimes pure comedy, but also scarey as the lack of knowledge on the subject these so called decision makers had on the subject.

The RC's are just going to keep on coming and coming and its stemming from this market I can see a large scale decriminalisation of posession coming I hope within the next 15 - 20 years.

I reckon a decriminalisation of heroin posession isn't too far off either with a lot more focus on treatment over a criminal record.
 
Shambles said:
No the NHS don't. The NHS is struggling to source enough opium for medicine at the moment (unless I just imagined it) which is why it's so stooopid they don't just buy up the Afghani crop. Opium is produced for the pharmaceutical industry in loads of places but nowhere near on a big enough scale to meet demands. At least that's what I've seen mentioned these last few years when there have been worldwide shortages. Maybe supplies have picked up again recently. Dunno. They should still buy the Afghan crop. Although that really would screw the heroin trade so maybe better they don't :D
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Dude,its the conspiracy behind the 'conspiracy' of oil.....Why'd ya think we went into afghanistan? The opium is not what people talk about when it comes to war in the middle east and afghanistan, people generally start talking about the relevance of the oil there which is fine, but the matter of the opium supply is often neglected.
 
Alot of people say the heroin shortage was partly due to our continued lingering presence in Afghanistan.....I can believe that.
 
Should at least consider legalising certain drugs, the revenue would clear the country of debt within about 2 years
 
BecomingJulie said:
Sometimes I despair of what is happening to this country.

I remember the miners' strike of 1984, the poll tax riots and the Criminal Justice Bill protests. Between then and now, something seems to have died in our national psyche. There is no longer a sense of "Cut one of us and we all bleed".

I can't see a way for it to get better without it getting worse first. Probably a lot worse.

I'm also not convinced that Tescoisation hasn't had something to do with it all. I grew up in a village where everybody shopped in the same village shops - you didn't even need to drive to town; they would order stuff in if they hadn't got it - and everybody knew everybody else. In that environment, you soon learned not to mess up your own doorstep. An action and its consequences were visibly, tangibly connected, at an almost visceral level. Today, local shops are being converted to private residences and nobody speaks to their neighbours.
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So true. Never have we as a nation been so separated. Whether you live in a council flat or the muesli belt, chances are so does nearly everyone you know. And since the decline of the manufacturing industries the working class has turned into the underclass. There are 40 year olds who've never worked and middle-classers who tell all their friends about them. Same with immigrants who never learned English. Social isolation makes for distrust, resentment and fear. You live with what's around you and when it appears unchangable apathy inevitably results.

Oddly, drug use is one of the few things all social groupings have in common. But the idea of a 'different' type of drug user inhibits progress toward legislative sense. Half the present Parliament has probably had a snort of coke but consider estate crack-heads a separate species. Some strange, fear based misunderstandings.

That, realistically, is the best you can do - see it as a misunderstanding, like not using a piece of equipment correctly, and correct the myths every chance you get. The rest ought to follow naturally if not soon enough As somebody says education is essential. Another poster delightfully notes early in this thread progress toward legalisation has been a slow business. Rather a strange one, too, the debate has gone off on all sorts of tangents and distractions over the years, a saboteur couldn't have derailed it better. Hopefully it comes to a head now and there'll be a relaxation of legislation in the lifetime of this Parliament. But they said that in 1967.
 
Shambles, I think that the way they're going to put an end to the cycle of new designer drugs circumventing laws is by shifting legislation from banning substances with a particular chemical structure to banning substances with a particular pharmacology. With the cannabinoid ban, rather than try to prohibit anything derived from napthoylindole in such and such a way, they just banned all synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists. I think they could do the same for NMDA antagonists/5HT-2a agonists/any other potentially recreational drug.
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They wouldn't be able to do it that way or things like chillies would become illegal (they cause endorphin release). That's why there are modifications to the MoDA that have detailed cover alls purely by chemical structure. Saying that though, we can expect a lot more 'catch all' clauses like those covering derivatives of tryptamine, phenethylamines, barbituates, fentanyls and pethedine derivatives
 
Can anyone please explain why amphetamine analogues are illegal on a technical level? like which part of the structure is the illegal part..

as far as im aware propan-2-amine is illegal if that is still intact? if other parts as substituted it remains a class A? is this correct? UK speaking ofc.

...FnB? xD
 
Any compound (not being Methoxyphenamine or a compound for the time being specified in sub-paragraph (a) above) structurally derived from Phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, α-methylphenethylamine, an N-alkyl-α-methylphenethylamine, α-ethylphenethylamine, or an N-alkyl-α-ethylphenethylamine by substitution in the ring to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, aklylenedioxy or halide substituents, whether or not further substituted in the ring by one or more other univalent substituents.
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Amphetamine (alphamethylphenylethylamine) is a-methylphenethylamine. Anything derived from it in the above-listed ways is Class A.

They wouldn't be able to do it that way or things like chillies would become illegal (they cause endorphin release). That's why there are modifications to the MoDA that have detailed cover alls purely by chemical structure. Saying that though, we can expect a lot more 'catch all' clauses like those covering derivatives of tryptamine, phenethylamines, barbituates, fentanyls and pethedine derivatives
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Yeah, ignore me, I was talking out of my arse. (Typing out of my arse? Doesn't work quite as well).
 
fastandbulbous said:
They wouldn't be able to do it that way or things like chillies would become illegal (they cause endorphin release). That's why there are modifications to the MoDA that have detailed cover alls purely by chemical structure. Saying that though, we can expect a lot more 'catch all' clauses like those covering derivatives of tryptamine, phenethylamines, barbituates, fentanyls and pethedine derivatives
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That was why I speculated that they might try to ban the act of getting high, by whatever means it may be accomplished. Of course, it would never be workable - but that never stopped a British government from passing a law before .....

Isn't there a tryptamine analogue in milk, which is responsible for cheese dreams?
 
Tryptophan is tryptamine with a carboxylic acid group hanging off the side-chain, and is in milk and turkey and stuff. I think the notion that it's responsible for cheese dreams is spurious, but I'm not as clued up as some.

Aged cheese contains a phenethylamine , you might be interested to hear.
 
Melatonin is the tryptamine you're thinking of. It's a prescription sleep medication too.
It's not controlled by the MoDA, but is well known for its ability to produce strange dreams.
 
Tryptophan was used as a sleep aid, but was withdrawn after some Japanese firm fuck up making it for dietry supplimental use and several people went down with some really nasty condition because of it. It does cause weird dreams (I had some before it was withdrawn), but that's probably because a lot of it got metabolized to things like melatonin (5-methoxy-N-acetyltryptamine).

Don't think that is the only resaon cheese gives you weird dreams, but I'd say definitely a contributing factor. Anyway, cheeses are a weird foodstuff - basically it's the solid bit of milk that's gone off; that some people think that's not enough and want it even more 'gone off' by letting it go moldy (blue cheeses) is IMO proof that humans are true omnivores =D
 
fastandbulbous said:
Anyway, cheeses are a weird foodstuff - basically it's the solid bit of milk that's gone off; that some people think that's not enough and want it even more 'gone off' by letting it go moldy (blue cheeses) is IMO proof that humans are true omnivores =D
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What's even more interesting is that the specific bacterial cultures that produce blue veins, or orange rind, are probably all derived from bacteria that used to live on humans or animals skin. Now they're pretty standardised strains, but at some point in the past, people were rubbing their dirty hands in gone off milk :)

(PS FnB good to see you - hope you're well) %)
 
oh uk drugs law looks very prospective after that judge let that dealer walk free after he was caught with 2 bin bags full of weed, coke, h, amfetamines, pills etc, i love those uk laws, its so openminded and futuristic, things should be like that all across europe =D
 
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