Fuckyoutex...

[Woodsong]

... This is so stupid.

I've been on buprenorphine (most recently Subutex) since October 10th of 2011 to help me kick a pretty substantial oxy habit. I've taken little 'breaks' here and there, of course... Fact is, this shit isn't helping me recover in any sense of the word. I still think about opiates all day, every day. I've got 9 Lortab 10's sitting on my desk in front of me that I bought on a whim, just so I can get one shitty little high in on Saturday morning. I've gone 36 hours without any bupe so far, and I'm already starting to hurt again... I doubt I'll make it til Saturday. Opiates still have complete control over my mind. If I drive past some place that's even in the same direction of somewhere I've either bought drugs or even been high at, or even simply so much as hear the word "pain," that little devil stabs a pitchfork in my neck...

To tell you the truth, I didn't quit for me... I did it for my dad and my boyfriend... Any addict out there can tell you that if you don't quit for yourself, you ain't gonna quit, and I know this... Deep down, I know I'll never want to quit until I hit absolute rock bottom, and frankly, I'm too self-conscious to let myself reach that point. It's sick, but it's almost like I enjoy going through that cycle of heaven one day and hell the next, like some masochistic side of me just likes being an addict... And I am a bit of a masochist in other ways as well, but ... I won't go into that here. I like pain, and I like painkillers, heh... What can I say, I enjoy the depravity.

But taking all that in mind, I just have to wonder if there ever actually will be any recovery for me in this life... Will I have this demon on my shoulder til the day I die, or is there hope for a future without chains? Can people really change, especially when it comes to something like addiction?

... I don't know. I'm in a hole, I don't feel like I'll ever be able to climb out... But at the very least, it's a warm and fuzzy little hole on occasion, and I seem to live for those brief moments...

I'm not really sure what sort of advice or response I'm hoping to gain from this, if any, or if this is even the right board for it, but I just wanted to get some thoughts out...

May the force be with you.

 

[bluedom]

What you're thinking is due to the addiction. If your response to your concern, let's say, is to take more opiates, then you're exacerbating the situation. You may not have a choice at this point. So you rationalise and say you "like" being an addict. That's another form of denial IMO.

People can and do change when it comes to addiction. You definitely have to reach a point where you say "enough". You may relapse or even develop a new addiction but you can get out of this trap. If you think about it, addiction to a chemical substance is easier to solve than addiction to something like food. All you have to do with the chemical substance is stop. The removes the input to the feedback loop that is your addiction. Without the input (use), the addiction is arrested.

For you even start feeling okay, in my view, you need to stop for several months (at least three). If you think of your addiction has having a half life, then you can roughly calculate some times based on the time it took to develop. This is purely speculative but every addict I've spoken to agrees with me this is a good guideline: if you have been using 10 years, you need to give yourself at least 5 years before you feel you've *really* changed and that you've broken free from the chains. This doesn't mean you can go back to using: you can never use recreationally again the rest of your life. That's the unfortunate part about addiction. You can arrest (treat) it but you cannot reverse (cure) in a rigourous way with current technologies at least.

 

[badfish45]

To tell you the truth, I didn't quit for me... I did it for my dad and my boyfriend

So as you mentioned, this is your biggest problem. Suboxone is sort of like a band aid, because your mind is still heavily attached to opiates. However, I don't think that this means that you should give up until your ready, but rather take the advice from bluedom and give it some time. Eventually the cravings and obsessions that you're having will go away, and that could take a lot of time. I say the faster you're able to get yourself completely clean off of opiates the better. The wd's will certainly go away and removing suboxone and oxycodone from your life will help with your cravings.

 

[Missykins]

So, you've been on Subutex for nearly six months and still using? Any change in dose? Are you being honest with your prescriber? Or are you buying your Subutex off the street? The first thing you need to do is be honest with your prescriber (once again, I'm assuming you do have a physician prescribing the med to you) and talk about increasing your dose such that your cravings decrease. Why are you using Subutex and not Suboxone? Are you an IV drug user?

Another thing you need to know about Subutex/Suboxone is that it will not work in a vacuum. You have to want to quit. You say you like being an addict. What does that mean exactly? Give me your operational definition of an addict. And what does "absolute rock bottom" really look like to you? Imagine yourself living in that place, and I mean really living there. It's easy to fall in love with your drug, and to romanticize the life of a junkie, but there's nothing romantic about it.

 

[Woodsong]

@Missykins
It's prescribed to me. He switched me to Subutex because I complained of Suboxone being too expensive, as I'm paying for all of this with cash... I've never IV'd. My dad was actually the one who set up my first appointment with the doctor. He prescribes me 16mg a day, but I know that's far too much. I take maybe 6 to 10 at most, usually nasally...

When I say I "like" being an addict ... I don't really know, it's hard to describe... Maybe "like" isn't really the right word. I live a pretty boring life, I'm pretty apathetic about most things, I don't really require much outside of basic needs, I'm just a simple person... Being an addict, for lack of better wording, and I know how ridiculous what I'm about to say sounds ... gives me something to do. It .. sets up a reward system in my otherwise humdrum life...

 

[Missykins]

@Missykins
It's prescribed to me. He switched me to Subutex because I complained of Suboxone being too expensive, as I'm paying for all of this with cash... I've never IV'd. My dad was actually the one who set up my first appointment with the doctor. He prescribes me 16mg a day, but I know that's far too much. I take maybe 6 to 10 at most, usually nasally...

When I say I "like" being an addict ... I don't really know, it's hard to describe... Maybe "like" isn't really the right word. I live a pretty boring life, I'm pretty apathetic about most things, I don't really require much outside of basic needs, I'm just a simple person... Being an addict, for lack of better wording, and I know how ridiculous what I'm about to say sounds ... gives me something to do. It .. sets up a reward system in my otherwise humdrum life...

Ok, so you're prescribed generic buprenorphine. What dose has your doctor prescribed? Why are you snorting it? Wait--I can answer that one--you're snorting it because you snort your Oxys and Lortabs, so it's an extension of your addictive behaviour. Why do you sometimes take 6 mg and other times take 10 mgs? And why do you think 16 mgs is too much? Based upon what? Sounds to me like you're abusing the Subutex as well. That doesn't make you a bad person, but these are things you need to discuss with your doctor. The medication won't work if you don't give it a chance to work.

 

[cj]

^^^
I dont think a dose increase is going to be effective as your very close to the cieling dose. It sounds to me like the bupe is stabilizing your addiction and without it your life would probably spiral out of control. sound right? The truth is if you dont want to get clean then you need to continue to manage your addiction. It doesnt really sound like your in a crisis.which is good. Are you are conflicted about what you want to do? I tend to think that quitting opiates is a process you didnt get addicted over night so your not gonna get clean overnight.

 

[RedLeader]

Deep down, I know I'll never want to quit until I hit absolute rock bottom, and frankly, I'm too self-conscious to let myself reach that point. It's sick, but it's almost like I enjoy going through that cycle of heaven one day and hell the next, like some masochistic side of me just likes being an addict... And I am a bit of a masochist in other ways as well, but ... I won't go into that here. I like pain, and I like painkillers, heh... What can I say, I enjoy the depravity.

There's a big difference between the stage you are at now and what a true 'rock bottom' is like. I can see how aspects of your current stage can be appealing - I enjoyed a lot of it too. But when things get bad, really bad, you won't be enjoying it at all. You won't even be enjoying the highs that much at this point because you'll only be able to afford enough to 'get well.' I understand that you try and see a positive in the rock bottom in that once you are there, you'll gain that desire to quit. But it's really not that simple. Going through a rock bottom phase scars a person's soul, and while sure it can make you straighten your life out, there will be a lot more pieces to pick up and you might have some irreversible collateral damage.

The way I see it with Suboxone, if you're on maintenance and you're still having cravings and taking real opiates within your doses, then the maintenance is not working. Might as well taper down and quit. Or take the advice of others and talk with your doctor about changing your dosing patterns, but I sense that you don't really want to do this, right?

Your biggest problem isn't the drugs, though. It's that you feel like the drugs are the only thing worth living for. Taking your Suboxone, going to meetings, not using hard drugs...none of that means anything if you're not also developing new hobbies and interests that being clean/sober supports. You have an entire world around you -- get up, leave your room and go explore it as well as you can.

Oh, and may the force be with you too.

 

[bluedom]

I've been where you are at and have gone to the bottom stage with alcohol (I wouldn't call it rock bottom, but it was enough for me to stop drinking alcohol). I've been prescribed opiates for pain and I've tapered down VERY slowly after being conflicted about it like you are now. As everyone has said, the path you're on is going to lead to more unhappiness than happiness. You know it which is why you're conflicted and rationalising your use. But if you're truly a simple person you wouldn't need the opiates. The thing is that you're bored. A lot of people I believe get addicted out of boredom or out of crisis.

My advice again is to find another activity that is constructive and use that to "set up a reward system" rather than relying on opiates. I also suggest tapering down very slowly (even 0.5mg/month after setting a limit, let's say 10). Ask your doctor to only prescribe what you need. This is what I did. I told my doctor I wanted to taper down and that he should give me prescriptions that slowly reduce my dose. He does (give me 3 written prescriptions for 3 months ahead of time). My next opiate prescription will be 5mg of oxymorphone per day (my max opiate dose (with fentanyl) was the equivalent of 120mg/day). I take it one month at a time.

If you do it very slowly and find a good substitute healthy activity then you'll reduce your cravings and your doubt will decrease. All your thoughts are your addiction fucking with you.

@Missykins
It's prescribed to me. He switched me to Subutex because I complained of Suboxone being too expensive, as I'm paying for all of this with cash... I've never IV'd. My dad was actually the one who set up my first appointment with the doctor. He prescribes me 16mg a day, but I know that's far too much. I take maybe 6 to 10 at most, usually nasally...

When I say I "like" being an addict ... I don't really know, it's hard to describe... Maybe "like" isn't really the right word. I live a pretty boring life, I'm pretty apathetic about most things, I don't really require much outside of basic needs, I'm just a simple person... Being an addict, for lack of better wording, and I know how ridiculous what I'm about to say sounds ... gives me something to do. It .. sets up a reward system in my otherwise humdrum life...

 

[Woodsong]

I appreciate all the input... I know that whenever I decide to go off the bupe so I can get high again, I get very tired of it very quick... After a few days, I'll realize what it was really like before: waking up sick every morning, never having enough, or simply not being able to feel as good as I want to period... Then I'll go back on the bupe, go on with my life for a few weeks or so, start having horrible cravings again and the cycle continues... I know I couldn't live in a state of total addiction anymore, but the cravings keep coming back... What I really want is to just get all this shit out of my body completely, I'm tired of being dependent... It's just so hard though... Whenever I start to feel even the slightest hint of withdrawal, I go into a panic that takes over my entire being... "Gotta stop this feeling, gotta stop this feeling," that's all I'm capable of thinking... I just don't know what to do...

 

[coelophysis]

So as you mentioned, this is your biggest problem. Suboxone is sort of like a band aid, because your mind is still heavily attached to opiates. However, I don't think that this means that you should give up until your ready, but rather take the advice from bluedom and give it some time. Eventually the cravings and obsessions that you're having will go away, and that could take a lot of time. I say the faster you're able to get yourself completely clean off of opiates the better. The wd's will certainly go away and removing suboxone and oxycodone from your life will help with your cravings.

I really don't think you should be recommending that they get off of suboxone treatment. You're saying that they don't want to quit, because they're doing it for someone else. But the fact that they're trying is proof enough that the OP is in fact deep down doing it for themselves also. They're just in a fairly confusing spot right now in life. Suggesting they get off the treatment their doctor is trying to help them with is not the right way to go, at all. They need to be more open with their doctor and also perhaps seek some counseling from people who have ACTUALLY been through stuff like this and can relate, with real advice. I'm not sure you know exactly what they're going through, and because of that I hope they don't take your very vague advice here in thinking that they should get off of their "treatment,' because you believe it isn't helping them. It's not for you to decide, imo. Abstaining from their medicines is not going to help them get over their cravings. They need a very long road of weening and therapy.