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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Fuck the queen of england

jspun said:
I was wondering, if I went to the UK or another EU country, Norway, Switzerland- the more wealthy Euro countries- If I was critically ill, as a foreign citizen, would I be covered under the NHS in the UK or require travelers insurance.
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Dunno about the Continent but if you were visiting the UK then you are fully covered for any and all necessary treatment required free of charge wherever you are from. Makes no difference what the condition is - chronic, acute, accident, bit of a cold, broken leg, dose of the squits or whatever - nor does it matter how long you need to be treated for. If you are in the UK you get free medical treatment whoever you are, whatever country you reside in and no matter what - you just have to be on British soil at the time is all. Think you would have to pay the prescription fee though which is a flat rate of £6.40 (last I saw - maybe £7.20) whether your prescribed a pack of paracetamol or a lifetime's supply of the most expensive drug on Earth. That's £6 or £7 or so for the whole script no matter how many items not per item too. NHS = win <3

Not wishing to contradict your personal experience but I've spoken to many Americans both living within and without the US and every single one of them has not one single good word about it other than getting better prescription opiates (that cost them a fortune). Have heard many firsthand horror stories of being refused treatment due to insufficient insurance, wrong type of insurance, lack of insurance or - probably most frequently - insurance company deciding they don't want to pay up. Know of at least on BLer offhand who was made homeless cos they had to be hospitalised after an accident and needed serious treatment that the insurance refused to pay for even though they should have. Have also heard that those Medicare/Medicaid plans cover basically sod all from more than one American too :\
 
Dunno about the Continent but if you were visiting the UK then you are fully covered for any and all necessary treatment required free of charge wherever you are from. Makes no difference what the condition is - chronic, acute, accident, bit of a cold, broken leg, dose of the squits or whatever - nor does it matter how long you need to be treated for. If you are in the UK you get free medical treatment whoever you are, whatever country you reside in and no matter what - you just have to be on British soil at the time is all. Think you would have to pay the prescription fee though which is a flat rate of £6.40 (last I saw - maybe £7.20) whether your prescribed a pack of paracetamol or a lifetime's supply of the most expensive drug on Earth. That's £6 or £7 or so for the whole script no matter how many items not per item too. NHS = win

Not wishing to contradict your personal experience but I've spoken to many Americans both living within and without the US and every single one of them has not one single good word about it other than getting better prescription opiates (that cost them a fortune). Have heard many firsthand horror stories of being refused treatment due to insufficient insurance, wrong type of insurance, lack of insurance or - probably most frequently - insurance company deciding they don't want to pay up. Know of at least on BLer offhand who was made homeless cos they had to be hospitalised after an accident and needed serious treatment that the insurance on refused to pay for even though they should have. Have also heard that those Medicare/Medicaid plans cover basically sod all from more than one American too
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Your health system sounds cool. Canada health has a good thing too per traveling nurses. But I don't think your really contradicting my experiences, especially since they are limited d/t my not dealing with the insurance- docs, admiting, case managers- thats their headaches. But insurance companies are paying less and less. Were blesed witha good HMO. The only problem is you have to go to their doc, and if you go to a doc outside the network- they won't pay the cost of the med minus the copay- so your stick with the whole bill.. 10 years ago i heard strories of seniors eating dogfood so they could pay for their essential astronomical meds.

Paradoxically, when I was on methadone a few years ago medicare or medical paid for the whole treatment if you had it. Otherwise it was $300.00 slidding scale up to $400.00/month. Anyway, a preceptie I just preceptored worked at a clinic before he could find an RN job. They were talking about cutting funding- he said a pettition was sent around with people saying they would commit suicide, be forced to rob, ect...paradoxically it was the few insurances that covered it. When in college i had Kaiser, an HMO that was the mcDs of HMO/Hospitals- you had to go to there hospitals and pharmacies but because I was out of region going to college I paid zero co pays for visits and zero for meds- got lots of opiates because they didn't have a centralized Rx system in the 90s. Got caught because I went to a doc in the same facility 2 days in a row- he (the pharm) filled the rx but probably flagged me. Then I got a job and a PPO so I could go to any doc but my copays were higher.

Now its prety much shit. I just quit subs this week (day 8) but at one time had 60/ month 16 mg dose- so at $8.00 pill. that would have been $500.00 if they denied coverage- interestingly generics are $30 but sub is in a weird class-$40 copay. No methadone coverage.

But lots of people get shafted. Or there parents are covered in the hospital and discharged to a nursing home which the family is cool with until the D/C planner tells them they have to pay $7,000/ month out of pocket. So the elderly pt's (and childrens inheritance) is taken by the nursing home first, then public assistance kicks in when their life savings are depleted- I've heard lots of sketchy things too and dealing with insurance people is like haggling at a bazarre. I had one d/c planner have a wife that had severe abdominal pain of suden onset so he took her to the nearest ER (apendix could have burst- I think it was her gall bladder) but he talks to these people all the time- works for the insurance group and suddenly they started ragging on him that he should have known better and drove her about 45 minutes to there nearest facility. They covered it in the end but he had to fight them- and these are people he works with daily.

So your right, its prety fucked up- but if you go through the ED they won't deny you care, and if your here illegallly and need hospitalization they will take care of you at our hospital. But they push out patients faster to maximize profits. We had patients transfered from other hospitals d/t lack of insurance- the theory is that each hospital has a quota of uninsured patients and can transfer if another hasn't reached the quota. We aren't county or even a teaching hospital- traditional destinations for "indigent patients". I'm just glad I don't have to worry about insurance.

As for the comment about people being overweight- they (policy makers) bitch and moan about drugs- very rarely do i encounter drug complication cases on my floor relative to obesity related complications. EtOH is the #1 drug problem and thats in the minority. Preventable illness like obesity (which crystal might have a theapeutic effect), uncontrolled diabetes are the two biggest culprits by far. Paradoxically with decreased smoking, smoking related complications have gone down but obesity related complications have increased in an inverse dirctly proportionately to decrease smoking rates- this was from a peer reviewed published study a couple years ago. So stamping out drugs won't alieviate the problem. Harm reduction won't hurt (applied to overeaters and noncomplian siabetics too).

Bleak fucking times. Pts get demanding (you would too if you were paying double the price of a presedential sweet in Saint Barts.
 
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One of the benefits of our system is that we are ranked among he best providers worldwide,. Including Canada, Switzerland, Probably the low lands, France, and Japan.

Also, many have to pay exorbitant prices for opiates and oher scheduled drugs, but its capitalism babby, there are dispensaries in CA, AZ, Oregon, DC, , Hawaii (which advertises on the radio, ) Alaska (were its been de facto legal since 75', anyway colorado, (which is moving towards full legality), CA is headed in that direction but killed it under the guise of Big Tobacco taking over, My theory is that like jug wine, their will be mass producers of inferior product probably in the central valley, and a boutque niche industry for connoisseurs even bringing back classic strains (panama red, columbian gold, Guerreo Gold, ect...) The reason why full legalization was killed is because their is big bussiness shiping the kind East in non dispensary sates

In an analogous fashion, Florida state "pain clinics are going to be cracked down accordiing to a DEA announcement, They advertise the clinis in, local clinics free papers like Ca dispensaries do, they will probably be clamped down on hard.

God Save the Queen. Maybe she can stand with the people and legalize medical cannabis by Royal decree, her emergecy powers, ect... As the mideast/ north Africa string men, Royals are colapsing, she could stand with the people for good, sensible drug policy, and disolve parliament, ruling by decree- but that probably won't happen.
 
lol AMERICA FUCK YEA....seriously them foriegn face ass mothafuckers always thinkin so highly of themselves sorry #FAIL
 
jspun: my friend's mother is going through the same thing in Greece. She's Greek (though lived a lot of her life in New Zealand). Lives in Greece, no health insurance. Bribing doctors to get medical care. Heartbreaking :(

Sadie: one way of looking at it - if you use your workplace health insurance here, you're freeing up the NHS for other people, so you're helping everyone out.

Shambo: are you sure the NHS is free to tourists? I'd certainly be inclined to have health insurance when travelling in the UK (and definitely Europe). :) [by the way, immigrants have to pay a levy to help fund the NHS in their area. It's only £50, but still]
 
I'm fairly sure the NHS is free to tourists but I'm sure one of our NHS-workers could confirm or deny that for sure :)

Also, not the most reliable source I know, but the US folks visiting here interviewed in Michael Moore's Sicko were raving about how they couldn't believe they received free treatment here when they were over. There are some very iffy "facts" presented in that film but I wouldn't think the interviewees were making that kinda thing up, to be honest.
 
I believe emergency treatment is free, but other treatment you may well have to pay for.. a lot of European countries have an agreement giving their nationals free treatment but I can't find the list.

I suspect often there is a grey line between emergency and non-emergency care, and a lot of hospitals would not charge - but officially they are supposed to.

Emergency treatment is free for all though, and all treatment is free (excluding prescription charges and things not funded by NHS like cosmetic surgery) for any Brisish national.

Those who say that healthcare in America is better - it might be better service and there might be more expensive treatments available etc, but in fact we have our own version of that too, it's called private healthcare. Just like in America, you have to have insurance or pay for that. We just get the huge extra bonus of the NHS, free healthcare for anyone and everyone, as well, which is amazing IMO despite shoddy organisation etc :)

edit: and I agree IJ - I hate the idea of private healthcare on ethical grounds, why the fuck should rich people get better/faster treatment etc, but actually it often isn't better or even that much faster, you just get a nicer private room, and without it the NHS would be horribly overburdened. Necessary evil you could say - I think I would be tempted to use it if I was in a position to, even though it flies against my principles, just so I'm not wasting NHS resources on something I could pay for (or get my company to pay for)...
 
WFT?

If some threads are Le Monde and others the Noo Yoik Times, this is the Sunday Pictorial. That's defunct, too. UK vs US? Dead empire vs dying one? What is point? As our wonderful Anceolotti says of Ashley Cole, who goes thru life without making a lil mistake like shooting someone?
 
In my hoapitlevery non ICU (intensive care unit) patients get private rooms. Hopitals must be retrofited for earthquakes by 2014 and that might be a part of the hospital boom.

Anyway, all non icu (intensive care) patients get private rooms. The rationale was patient confidentiality and preventing the spread of drug resistant microrganisms like ESBL, VRE, and MRSA. I think the real reason was increasing patient satisfaction so they would choose our hospital as a choice- money the bottom line.

Now as for health insurance given a choice, its probably the patriotic thing to choose employee health insurance. This might cost the employer more given te need for economic recovery, but I would bet the NHS service are strained given their debate on cutting the green. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

So grit your teeth, the diparity of care is disconcerting- but altleast they can get comprehensive medical coverage.

On Oprah, which i very rarely watch they were comparing systems around the world. In The Neatherlands you had like 3 or 4 tiers that entitled you to different levels of services. The cost was the same for each tier but companies, which you could choose freely, had to compete for better service given the price was the same. I'm sure they had a system for those unable to pay (tier 1).

Michael Moore is a great documentary maker but their was some controversy surounding his socialized care system- that they were allowed to film selectively or something like that. You want to see an excellent example of socialized medicine and Barbados springs to mind. This was 2006, care was free, and people from other carribean islands would go there to take advatange of the medical system's percs. This was based on a conversation I had with a fellow RN when on vacation their. This was 2006, things might have changed.

As for the Queen, one advantage is that she holds the Commonwealth together. I read last night when they were discussing diferent dept holders that the UK owns like 7.5 % of the national debt in hard currency $ reserves.
Not as much as China, but you could seriously damage our failed economy.

The monarchies, in the middle east, brutal, abusive, corrupt, were the last place I expected a revolt to occur. Will see how many last.

In the USA each citizen is in theory sovereign. I've been hearing lots of unrest, in doctors offices, on the street, this may be the next area were massive revolt takes place- "a revolution now and then isn't such a bad thing," hunt for red october. Having said that, in this republic, the voters can revolt by ballot- rigged election acusations aside.

As for poor and our hospital, we had one patient that was an ass- homeless- which wasn't the problem but very demanding of the staff. He had 2 mg dilaudid ordered every 2 hrs which he would throw a fit if he didn't get on the clock, would go out and smoke even though he wasn't allowed to leave the unit, and threw a fit when the nutrition department wasn't sending him extra trays. We were working hard to placate him and the hospital was eating the cost. Finally he left against medical advice because we wouldn't do his bidding. He was back (would go hospital to hospital) and we had him sign a contract that he would follow the rules to get into a nursing home. When he found their rules to be more restrictive, he hung out for a few more shots of dilaudid and up and left. His care and demands were met regardless of ability to pay.

Also, now they supposedly have a website that lists hospital ER wait times- so there is a push to make beds available to admit patients.

But california is a state that is known for better nurse:patient ratios compared to other states and from what I been hearing, there are differences in the delivery of care state to state, although there is a national board each state and territory has individual, autonomous boards both medical, nursing, ect...that govern and oversee the delivery of care in their state.
 
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LS:
[There just a bunch of big fat crystal meth heads who like to kill there own people to start a war so they can lower the price of there petrol..
Fuckin bunch of yankie retards!!! /QUOTE]

Price of oil went up after the war. As pointed out earlier by sadie crystal meth and obesity is an oxymoron- although i've seen overweight tweakers. Maybe it Rx amphetamines should be utilized more frequently given the obessity problem. But I had a US Marine tell me when we were discussing what should be done to restore this country- a republic whose authority derives from the people- a voters revolt- his opinion was that the average American is fat, lazy and doesn't care. That enumniates the chiasm that is building between those in uniform and their growing dissalutionment with non military citizens in this country and their sense of apathy- they see the news here about afganistan and realize its mostly a load of bullocks which increases their frustration. Discontent seems to be growing as all but the few elite are getting shafted- in some places more than others. There is a pusch by management to get rid of unions, especially for public employees, hence the budding protests in Wisconsin and other states.

infinite jest:
jspun: my friend's mother is going through the same thing in Greece. She's Greek (though lived a lot of her life in New Zealand). Lives in Greece, no health insurance. Bribing doctors to get medical care. Heartbreaking
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Some things never change- their supposed to have "socialized medicine" but now they're bankrupt and imposed severe austerity measures. I feel for your friend's mom. God help her and her family. My family member was there when Greece was starting to get increased foreign investments.

ps lets not forget- its a war that you guys actively participated in. Were all wankers in this clusterfuck. By the way, where is the queen to look out for the poor and disadvataged, to utilize her political influence, figurehead aside- weading plans on her mind- i though she had a staff for that. Other nations might be deposing autocrats, the UK might need to restore hers elevate her from a figure head, and keep her on a tight leash.
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Well one damn things for sure- the USA is losing its longest war, the drug war, a war without end. The winners are the cartels and government/ private entities that profiteer from it. All others involved are casualties- and the casulties keep mounting.
 
^ True dat. And like one or two other ongoing conflicts they've failed miserably at they managed to convince the morons who govern the UK into failing miserably alongside them :\

Although, to be fair, the US probably kills more British soldiers with "friendly fire" than whoever it is we're supposed to be fighting half the time. Maybe US soldiers need to put in a few more hours playing the videogames that inspire their "hard ass" fighting costumes to work on their aim ;)

SamhainGrim said:
Vietnam?

EDIT: Afghanistan?

EDIT 2: Iraq? :)
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Korea wasn't exactly what you'd call a flawless victory either really ;)
 
Damn Yanks starting scraps they can't finish :!

Not gonna argue that you kicked redshirt arse a coupla centuries back and did lend a very handy helping hand clearing up the messes the Germans made of the first half of last century though, to be fair. It's all been a bit downhill on the military front since then though :p

;)
 
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