Freaking out after MDMA comedown.

[faithality]

Hi everyone,
I've been searching the forums for the past two months, and have felt confident about my recovery but some new information is freaking me out.

I took some really pure MDMA from the netherlands my friend got back in the end of June. I had a really bad comedown and almost felt like I had a TIA.

I didn't go to the doctor cause I don't have insurance. But ever since i've had brain zaps, light sensitivity, lots of anxiety, depression and others. Now after reading through alot of similar cases around here, i've been encouraged to see that recovery is possible with good exercise and nutrition, but I recently saw an optometrist today for my contact subscriptions, and she noticed that one eye is more dilated than the other after her dilation test. She said that everything came out normal with my eye, such as eye pressure and stuff like that, but it's really freaking me out that one eye is more dilated than the other.

Has anyone else experienced these uneven eye dilations with the rest of these conditions?
An eye doctor or something isn't really an option because I have no insurance, and i'm going away to school in about a week.

Thank you everyone.

 

[JimSteele]

Another member recently submitted a question about lingering issues with their eyes after a period of mdma abuse.

I am fairly certain that, over time, the issue resolved on its own. Keep taking care of your body and mind

 

[futura2012]

I would agree with Jim on this MDMA does seem to have the capability to cause this symptom.

Seperate pupil dilation can happen and might be something relating to the visual cortex.

As stated this will over time likely resolve itself. The visual cortex is a very sensitive part of the brain it needs a long time to heal.

I would avoid any further illicit drugs and start looking after yourself well. particularly as you dont have any medical insurance.

As you have chosen not to insure yourself you cannot afford to take big risks with illicit drugs and any other health risk activities.

Good luck my friend please be careful out there.

 

[Achten]

I don't want to add oil to the fire (is that even an expression in english ?) or make the OP more anxious, but I thought I saw a documentary once about psychedelics, and it was mentioned that uneven eye dilation could be a result/symptom of brain damage ?

 

[futura2012]

I don't want to add oil to the fire (is that even an expression in english ?) or make the OP more anxious, but I thought I saw a documentary once about psychedelics, and it was mentioned that uneven eye dilation could be a result/symptom of brain damage ?

What a really productive thing to say.

Do you reckon you might be able to provide a source for this otherwise I smell something beginning with B.

 

[Dumbnut]

Why BS? I saw that documentary too (it was the NATGEO one about LSD wasn't it), it was a guy who accidentally took a way too huge amount of LSD, and he ended in the hospital with serious brain damage and he cannot walk straight or speak without having problems. He accidentally took it by touching impregned blotters without caution, he was a cop if i remember right. Once i find the documental i can post it. Its no bullshit man.

 

[futura2012]

He accidentally took it by touching impregnated blotters without caution, he was a cop if i remember right. Once i find the documental i can post it. Its no bullshit man.

The lab I think you are talking about is the one of William Pickard. A very famous LSD chemist from the USA.

His lab got busted and he warned the DEA and suggested they should blow the lab up for everyones safety. The police ignored him and one of them got zapped by the LSD molecule.

However, despite this I never saw anything about different sized dilated pupils.

For the sake of the OPs mental health can we assume you have got confused in some way and the idea of different pupil sizes being a result of brain damage is perhaps an error of judgement on your behalf?

If you can find the source then it would be an interesting theory to look at but for now lets assume a mistake otherwise the OP is left worrying unnecessarily.

 

[faithality]

Thanks JimSteele and Futura2012.

To add more information, when I first had the really bad comedown, my vision and the sensitivity was really really bad when it first happened, but it is now almost 3 months later, and it is definitely better, but still noticeable. I think smoking weed during these 3 months didn't help it at all, and I would smoke multiple times a week, not knowing that it was more harmful to me. But I started slowing down alot once I found out about a month ago, and have completely stopped smoking weed for about the past week and half.

Now vision is not too noticeably better since i've stopped smoking, but everything else is MUCH better. Much less anxiety, less depression, and brain zaps are pretty much completely gone. I've also just started working out and eating healthier, so hopefully that'll quicken my recovery.

Achten and Dumbnuts responses worry me, because I definitely do not feel as intelligent, and have a harder time focusing that before all this.
I would be devastated if permanent brain/eye damage has occured... But I do feel healthier than a few weeks ago.

 

[futura2012]

Achten and Dumbnuts responses worry me, because I definitely do not feel as intelligent, and have a harder time focusing that before all this.

This cloudeyness does go after time. Good move on axing all the weed etc. Great to hear you are getting the benefits from this. Personally in your position I would axe the drugs all together and see how you go without them. Trust me there is more to life. My life is ruined by drugs and when I see signs like the ones you have you have to read them and act accordingly or if you make the wrong decision the symptoms could be made 100x worse.

Perhaps try some Piracetam and Choline also a supp called Neurozan. Both of these give good results for MDMA abuse.

I would be devastated if permanent brain/eye damage has occured... But I do feel healthier than a few weeks ago.

After having taken MDMA since I was 20 and being 39 now I think a lot of the brain damage I did I never even realised until it was too late.

Your feeling healthier things are getting better. Yes you might have done some brain damage but I guarantee the symptoms you feel will eventually fade and the damage done wont impair your life. Just see it as a positive thing you are still in one piece. You sound relatively healthy. Learn the lesson and move on. See this as a harsh warning sign. I promise you it could be a lot worse.

I am stuck inside 24/7 and am scared of the outside of my house. The sunlight burns my eyes. Dont let your anxiety ruin the great things you have. I promise you things will go back to normal again. If you drive yourself with anxious thoughts the brain will take longer to heal.

many users report forgetting about it and living is a big part of recovery.

This is the best advice I can give. I hope this helps.

 

[faithality]

Thank you for your encouragement futura2012. Where could I get those Supplements? And I'm sorry to hear about your condition, it pains me to hear it. I really hope I recover fully, or close enough to it so that I won't notice it. I can feel myself gettig better, especially mentally and with my anxiety. Thank you again.

 

[futura2012]

ebay.de for the piracetam if your in europe.

Are you in USA?

for the neurozan Holland & barett in the UK.

For usa visit their website for distributor details.

Yeah my condition os a batch. I made the fatal error of ignoring one long term comedown continuing to take drugs and this time it has hit me far worse. Fucking piperazines. Whoever pulled those out the closet needs a bullet. That compound has fucked up many peoples lives.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Stumbling around BL...

Interesting thread.
A possible explanation:

MDMA derives its effects through the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.
Damage to cortical SERT and hyperinnervation of the hypothalamus is thought to be a major cause of MDMA induced depression/anxiety.

The hypothalamus is strongly influenced by the balance of serotonin between higher and lower brain regions.
And the pituitary gland is strongly influenced by the hypothalamus.

It is the pituitary release of prolactin that is associated with the euphoric and empathogenic effects of MDMA.
However, long-term increases in prolactin (hyperprolactinemia) can occur post SSRI and MDMA use, and is associated with many psychological problems.

Damage to the serotonin network may allow for continuous stimulation of other serotonin receptors - eliciting an unending prolactin release at the pituitary.

The pituitary gland is highly protected in the center of the brain, yet it sits outside of the brain blood barrier.
It secretes a number of different hormones into the bloodstream, which have various effects upon the rest of the endocrine glands throughout the body.

It is estimated that up to 25% of the general population have some type of growth on their pituitary, known as adenomas.
Less than 1% of cases turn out to be cancerous.

Whether or not MDMA toxicity leads to an adenoma, I have no idea.
But it wouldn't surprise me.
It certainly has a vast negative impact upon pituitary function.

What does this have to do with the eyes?

.....


Sitting directly above the pituitary gland is the optic nerve!
And the primary reason for surgical intervention of pituitary adenomas is damage to surrounding tissues, including the optic nerve.

I can relate a personal example.

After spending six months on Piracetam to cope with my own consequences of MDMA brain damage, I decided to abruptly quit taking the supplement.

What followed was by FAR the greatest pressure behind my eyes that I have EVER felt.

It wasn't like a headache, either.
It literally felt like my eyeballs were going to EXPLODE, or be pushed out of their sockets!
A very very scary few days....


For most of the last year and a half I have concluded that this experience was due to a stroke or TIA.
But quite recently I learned about pituitary adenomas and the damage that can happen to the optic nerve.
And some adenomas are very difficult to detect even with scans.

Pressure against the optic nerve is almost certainly what caused my pain during that week of withdrawal from Piracetam.
And Piracetam is known to preferentially increase serotonin in the highest region of the brain and decrease it at the hypothalamus, so withdrawal should do the reverse.

A sudden imbalance of serotonin shifted towards the hypothalamus can cause the pituitary gland to swell against the optic nerve.
That is my theory.

Amazing how things can reach different conclusions over long long periods of time.
Patience brings more knowledge than you can imagine.
Which is comforting, since I continue to struggle cognitively.

Warning: As cortical resprouting of serotonin slowly occurs, loss of higher brain functions occurs.
That means 'recovery' is actually a form of ongoing brain damage.

Serotonin inhibits neuronal functions.
The highest cognitive functions are concerned with language, attention, working memory, social interaction, sexuality....
All things I continue to struggle with - after nearly 2 whole years of 'recovery'.

When will it end?

 

[surfer179]

hey faith , glad things are improving, you will get through it you just gotta think positive and let time take its course. I replied to your inbox by the way, hopefully it helped

good luck

 

[MarmaladeSkies]

Stumbling around BL...

Interesting thread.
A possible explanation:

MDMA derives its effects through the hypothalamus and pituitary gland.
Damage to cortical SERT and hyperinnervation of the hypothalamus is thought to be a major cause of MDMA induced depression/anxiety.

The hypothalamus is strongly influenced by the balance of serotonin between higher and lower brain regions.
And the pituitary gland is strongly influenced by the hypothalamus.

It is the pituitary release of prolactin that is associated with the euphoric and empathogenic effects of MDMA.
However, long-term increases in prolactin (hyperprolactinemia) can occur post SSRI and MDMA use, and is associated with many psychological problems.

Damage to the serotonin network may allow for continuous stimulation of other serotonin receptors - eliciting an unending prolactin release at the pituitary.

The pituitary gland is highly protected in the center of the brain, yet it sits outside of the brain blood barrier.
It secretes a number of different hormones into the bloodstream, which have various effects upon the rest of the endocrine glands throughout the body.

It is estimated that up to 25% of the general population have some type of growth on their pituitary, known as adenomas.
Less than 1% of cases turn out to be cancerous.

Whether or not MDMA toxicity leads to an adenoma, I have no idea.
But it wouldn't surprise me.
It certainly has a vast negative impact upon pituitary function.

What does this have to do with the eyes?

.....


Sitting directly above the pituitary gland is the optic nerve!
And the primary reason for surgical intervention of pituitary adenomas is damage to surrounding tissues, including the optic nerve.

I can relate a personal example.

After spending six months on Piracetam to cope with my own consequences of MDMA brain damage, I decided to abruptly quit taking the supplement.

What followed was by FAR the greatest pressure behind my eyes that I have EVER felt.

It wasn't like a headache, either.
It literally felt like my eyeballs were going to EXPLODE, or be pushed out of their sockets!
A very very scary few days....


For most of the last year and a half I have concluded that this experience was due to a stroke or TIA.
But quite recently I learned about pituitary adenomas and the damage that can happen to the optic nerve.
And some adenomas are very difficult to detect even with scans.

Pressure against the optic nerve is almost certainly what caused my pain during that week of withdrawal from Piracetam.
And Piracetam is known to preferentially increase serotonin in the highest region of the brain and decrease it at the hypothalamus, so withdrawal should do the reverse.

A sudden imbalance of serotonin shifted towards the hypothalamus can cause the pituitary gland to swell against the optic nerve.
That is my theory.

Amazing how things can reach different conclusions over long long periods of time.
Patience brings more knowledge than you can imagine.
Which is comforting, since I continue to struggle cognitively.

Warning: As cortical resprouting of serotonin slowly occurs, loss of higher brain functions occurs.
That means 'recovery' is actually a form of ongoing brain damage.

Serotonin inhibits neuronal functions.
The highest cognitive functions are concerned with language, attention, working memory, social interaction, sexuality....
All things I continue to struggle with - after nearly 2 whole years of 'recovery'.

When will it end?

Good post. Just some thoughts.

Those pituitary tumors you are referring to are also known as 'prolactinomas', literally a non-cancerous swelling in the pituitary gland. These tumors themselves can produce prolactin in large amounts, causing a variety of problems.

If your theory is correct, OP's anisocoria could be being caused by pressure on the optic nerve from the pituitary gland. This would depend on the mydriatic (dilated) pupil being abnormal.

Dopamine agonists are used to treat prolactinomas. They lower the amount of prolactin they produce and also can decrease the swelling.

 

[CageKennylz]

For the last 3 weeks or so, many of my friends have asked me if I'm wired due to me having abnormally large pupils 90% of the time.
This happens on a daily basis. Yesterday, during lunch in McDonald's with a few people they were all convinced I was wired.
I'm not too worried about it and I tend to joke about it.
The last 2 times I rolled, my pupils remained fully dilated for 24 hours.
Since then, my pupils have varied from slightly above-average, to "I could eat dinner off your pupils" pretty much all the time.

 

[faithality]

Hey Everyone,
Another update on my recovery. I haven't been on bluelight as much because I have not wanted to spend my life freaking out and worrying all the time, because I found that the more time I spent on here, the more unhappy and anxious my life was.

I greatly appreciate all your guys help, information and support.

Now on to my health.
I feel almost completely normal regarding mood, personality, and general health. I feel like most of "me" has come back, and for that I am thankful.
But my vision is still not normal, and that is the only thing that I would say has not really recovered too much. It's not as bad as it originally was, but it's still noticeably affected.
@First Bad Comedown, Your post definitely makes sense, and although i'm no expert in this I could see that as a very possible and plausible explanation. Now if that's the case, What can i do?

@surfer179, I did get your message in my inbox, and I greatly appreciate it. I apologize for not getting back to you, but I wanted to give myself some time to see how I recovered, and your words and support helped me greatly in my recovery. Just the confirmation that it can get better helped more than any other explanation could. Although my vision is not fully recovered, the more important thing has recovered. Myself. My personality and life. So thank you.

@Futura2012, I am from the US. And it is a patch from the Netherlands according to my friend, which they got from some website, I can't remember the name of it. Piperazines are terrible things though.

 

[surfer179]

hey faith , glad to hear everything is getting back to normal, i too have still got the vision problem and a bit of unmotivation to do things in life :/ but i guess that will come back in time , every other aspect to me is back to normal, everyone will recover but you can't dwell on it, let time takes it course and try to live as normal as possible, that would be my cure to people who need advice as its hard when you first experience anything like this, im sure your agree. il probably post in a couple months of how my recovery is doing and i would be glad to hear the same from you, remember positivity is the main thing! dont let it beat you up because thats what it feeds on! good luck

 

[First Bad Comedown]

What can you do?

Exercise is your greatest ally in all regards.

Working out will take pressure off the malfunctioning serotonin network, because it causes axonal resprouting in areas other than the hypothalamus. This should directly lower pituitary prolactin and pressure against the optic nerve.

Strong caution is warranted during exercise, because the benefits are delayed (often by days). During working out, the pressure could get worse.

If your eyes physically hurt or you have a headache, proceed carefully. A stroke is possible.

Moderate cardio will be your best bet. Start slowly.

Exercise and its subsequent bdnf release (which increases each day) is the only great solution. All other options are supportive.

Start leading an anti-inflammatory lifestyle. Brush your teeth 3 times per day, and floss once per day.
Do not dismiss this advice, because it directly lowers markers of inflammation in the bloodstream and brain.

Eat the greatest anti inflammatory herb, turmeric. Its extract combined with black pepper is far more effective.

Obviously lots of anti oxidants like fruits are wise. And take fish oil constantly.

Low dose aspirin is a great safe blood thinner, which lowers risk of stroke. So does dark chocolate.

It is possible you have already had a stroke, in which case lots of exercise is the only treatment.
Good luck.

 

[eLW]

It's called anisocoria, and can be caused by any number of things.

Horner's Syndrome - caused by stroke, cervical disc disease, lung tumor, carotid artery dissection, brain tumor

Oculomotor nerve palsy

Pharmacologic - many drugs can cause enlarged pupils

Mechanical - damage to the iris, for example, after cataract surgery

Tonic pupil (Adie pupil)

Transient anisocoria - may be associated with migraine headaches

If you are concerned, see an ophthalmologist. If you have had recent head trauma, go to an ER.

 

[Kommienezuspadt]

Hi FBC,

I'm a big fan. Your posts are an inspiration.

How did the lithium go? I've ordered some Lithium Orotate (5mg) to help with my debilitating mental confusion/ mental slowness/ mild aphasia, caused by excessive mdma consumption.

I try and exercise as much as possible; have 720mg EPA (through fish oil) every day; brush my teeth three times a day...but I find that, nearly 4 years after my last dose, I still feel dysfunctional.

It's as if my brain is devoid of a catalyst to get it moving. Incidentally, when I drink a strong cup of coffee, everything goes back to how it used to be.....for around 40-150 mins. I feel coherent, sharp, etc... But then I drop back into the dysfunctional state again, finding it difficult to read one sentence, or put two coherent thoughts together. I'm assuming caffeine's role as an adenosine antagonist, and subsequent dopamine, acetylcholine, norepinephrine, cortisol and serotonin agonist, to put it crudely, partly explains the temporary relief I feel?

I am considering ECT, but would like to try Lithium first.

I feel like I want to smash my head in, just to get the whole system running smoothly again, like it used to!

Regards,

Kommie