Bupe For people who have *successfully tapered off suboxone..

[Bojangles69]

I'm gonna state my history and current predicament I'm just curious if everything I'm going through is natural, and why my body doesn't seem to wanna "adapt" to lower doses.

I had jumped off pods, and made it to day 8 w/out them, only using kratom to stabilize. The insomnia and RLS were my only symptoms, but by night 7 it wasn't getting better, I slept 0 hours, still had RLS, and because I was becoming suicidal at that point I thought it would be smart to transition to suboxone.

So I switched from day 8 off my jump off to .25mg suboxone.
Day 1 - .25mg sub - slept 6 hours
Day 2 - .25mg sub - slept 6 hours
Day 3 - .25mg sub - slept 5 hours
Day 4 - .20mg sub - slept 4-5 hours
Day 5 - .20mg sub - slept 3 hours
Day 6 - .25mg sub - slept 8 hours
Day 7 - .25mg sub - slept 5-6 hours
Day 8 - .20mg sub - slept 4 hours
Day 9 - .15mg sub - complete insomnia - 0 hours sleep
Day 10 - .20mg sub - slept 2 hours
Day 11 - .35mg sub - slept 8 hours (was fed up yesterday morning which is why I went up .15mg I know it was dumb but at least I got a break today)

This process is driving me CRAZY.

It genuinely appears that there is no way to slowly taper sub, and gain my sleep back by maybe an hour every few days.
If I jumped off now wds wouldn't be bad, but I would only be able to deal with insomnia for 4-5 days before I most likely lost my mind again and broke.

I do have detox meds coming soon, so I know I can jump on those and off the sub with no issues which is how I'm gonna get past the insomnia.

But I'm curious as to why the hell in 10 days my sleep literally just goes back and forth. And why is sleep so inconsitent? Like how can I take .25mg one night and sleep for 8 hours, then take the SAME dose the following day and only sleep for 5-6 hours?

It just makes NO LOGICAL sense whatsoever this sleep thing.

I was thinking if I dropped .5mg every few days, I'd adjust, and would slowly gain at least an hour of sleep back so I could drop again. That doesn't seem to want to happen no matter what. But theres been nights where the second or third day at the same dose I actually wind up losing more sleep than the nights before.

Now that would make sense if I was tapering off a large dose of sub from the begining. But I had took 8 days completely off pods. I was thinking if I went on a small dose of sub, I'd get 6-8 hours of sleep back and if I stayed at that dose my sleep would improve within 2-3 days. When my sleep dropped an hour on day 3, and my RLS also intensified for no reason, rather than up my dose I continued the taper, hoping at some point I would adjust. But there is simply no rhyme or reason is seems to doing this.

I DO NOT CARE about hotflashes/chills or any of that crap. I'm just curious as to how after more than 2 weeks now, one completely off opiates, and 1 on a superlow dose of sub, my sleep does NOT appear to want to improve at all. Like what happened to this idea of "stablization"? Does sleep just not stablize unless your 100% off an opiate? I thought it would stablize eventually even if you were on a low dose?

I'm curious as to other peoples experiences at doses this low. How fast/slow did you drop the sub, and how was the insomnia/rls? What dose did you finally stop at? Should I be staying at the same dose for 6-7 days instead of 2-3? Maybe after a week at the same dose I might gain an hour back so I can drop on day 8 and lose that hour again? I mean that was my logic going into this I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

ANY help would greatly be appreciated. My sleep meds will be here either way but I'm still trying to get better right now w/out them and I'm not even seeing a shred of improvement in the sleep/rls department.

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

its all in the head it sounds like,at that low of a dose i would just take some otc painkillers and some benadryl and count sheep. or just deal with the insomnia for a week. and be done with it

 

[TornUpKnuckles]

your taking some serious small doses. Did you talk with a doctor when you went on Bupe?

i think you can raise your dose. Bupe is a great tool to get clean....but remember, if your not making yourself comfortable while you are on it, your chances for a lasting recovery can be pretty tough.

The whole point of using drugs like Bupe and Methadone is to make yourself comfortable while you quit opiates. The first thing you need to do is stabilize yourself on a dose that allows you to sleep and feel better.

After you stabilize, then you can start to cut down and taper. But i can not stress the importance of stabilizing first.

In detox, people who go the Bupe route take 3 8mg pills a day. After that for a few days, then they start to taper.

Bupe is unique in the fact that you can taper pretty quick as long as you are on it for a short time. you can taper to the point that you take your last dose in 7-10 days no problem.

I am not pulling out this advice from my ass either. This is the way they do it at Tarzana treatment center in Los Angeles.

Good luck! And remember, if you are feeling like you want to commit suicide, you need to consult a doctor. There is no reason to take Bupe if you are not feeling better. You need to up your dose, feel good, then start your taper.

Do it the right way, or just lock yourself in your room with some Gatorade and lots of toilet paper.

 

[Bojangles69]

Well honestly if I up my dose I know I'll feel better but I think its completely unneccessary as if I up my dose now, I'm just going to wind up tapering back down and will be in the same exact situation.
I didn't consult a dr either I got it off the street and have been saving 3 - 8mg bupe for an "emergency" (which at these doses can technically last a couple of months). The emergency was when I started having suicidal thoughts and realized I couldn't buy pods anymore, so my only option I felt at that point was to jump on as low a dose of bupe as possible. I do believe everything your saying is completely accurate, but upping any dose of any opiate right now would basically make the last few months tapering on pods a waste of time. And that time means too much to me to start going backwards with doses.
I'm thinking I may just stick to one dose, say .25mg for 5-6 days, and see if I can gain at least an hour of sleep back. I was hoping I could just taper and stop the bupe at this low a dose in a week or 2, not even needing sleep/detox meds at that point. But logically speaking, my sleep meds will be here in a little less than a week, and I'm just gonna stop the bupe at that point anyway.
The reason I was trying to taper now, was in the event my meds got seized and I was essentially fucked at that point. I've never had a seizure from customs once with all my online orders, but knowing my luck it would prob happen right at the end of a taper when I'm trying to get clean. So that worry is always in the back of my head, even with a 97% success rate crossing customs.

So theres all sorts of other factors playing into this. I guess I'll just stick to one dose and if I get any sleep back I'll know I can drop again. Otherwise I just need to keep my fingers crossed on my meds getting here safe and soundly. Thanks for the help! Any other opinions are welcome. But upping the dose is absolutely not an option.

 

[TornUpKnuckles]

listen dude, If your having suicidal thoughts, that qualifies as an emergency. What else could you be possibly waiting for? A nuclear Holocaust? I don't understand.

Honestly, if you feel like shit, having suicidal thoughts, cant sleep....it's time to either up your dose, or since you posted on Bluelight seeking help from people who have "been there, done that," try following the advise.

I know what I am talking about. If you don't wanna take my advise, I hope you take someone else's who has also gone the route that you are currently. There is no need to be going through what you are going through right now.

Take care brother, and remember that Bupe is there to make you feel better. If your not feeling better and can't sleep, your doing something wrong.

Up your dose, stabilize yourself, then taper your dose down.

 

[DrugOmen]

listen dude, If your having suicidal thoughts, that qualifies as an emergency. What else could you be possibly waiting for? A nuclear Holocaust? I don't understand.

Honestly, if you feel like shit, having suicidal thoughts, cant sleep....it's time to either up your dose, or since you posted on Bluelight seeking help from people who have "been there, done that," try following the advise.

I know what I am talking about. If you don't wanna take my advise, I hope you take someone else's who has also gone the route that you are currently. There is no need to be going through what you are going through right now.

Take care brother, and remember that Bupe is there to make you feel better. If your not feeling better and can't sleep, your doing something wrong.

Up your dose, stabilize yourself, then taper your dose down.

I pretty much agree with this. If you felt ok at .35 mg then stay with that for a while then start a slow taper.

Btw! I am currently jumping off Bupe and I am at the point where i can tolerate a dose every 3 or 4 days. I snorted anywhere from 1-3 mg a day for about a year then started a slow taper with a dose starting at .5 mg for a while then gradually over a month slowly tapered. Now I take a dose of maybe 1 mg every 3 to 4 days and am slowly increasing the days in between dosing. Good Luck!

 

[ADDlCTlON]

suboxone is weak bro.. if you cant kick it please dont do opiates; go smoke some weed

take opiate detox week by week not day by day, its hard as fck. Not to mention Bupes are a rip off, 10-15$ a dose are you kidding me that is a fckn joke. go cold turky and have some water next to your bed... man up bro

your lucki it wasnt H because youd be puking, kicking and think you were being poisoned on top all of your fails. day 11 you should have waited 3 more and you would been done

 

[Bojangles69]

Look I'm sorry there is terrible advice in this thread.

One person is telling me "bupe is here to make me feel better" which it is NOT, bupe is a drug, and I am trying to get off it.

Also, for "addiction", suboxone is NOT weak when it occured after a pretty severe 1 1/2 year pod habit. I know opiates are hard to detox, bupe is not a rip off when you get them for $8 bucks a pod and would have to spend 100 in pods just to maintain that long.

I'm not "lucky" is was not H because H takes like 3-4 fucking days to kick. Pods last forver. I'd rather be puking for 2 days off heroin wtf.

And you're actually telling me "suboxone is weak" dude are you a friggn idiot? Its 40 times stronger than morphine, its on top of the list of opiates when it comes to half time, and receptor affinity. If I was on heroin I'd taper that shit in 2 weeks and be over moderate wds in a matter of days.
Suboxone is much more potent, and along with pods have a much longer half life. The only thing I gather from your associations to H is how much you liked it, not how much what you're saying is true.. or even remotely.

 

[brainwash]

^ Bupe is so strong, and yet they give it to us addicts to wean us off other opiates....

 

[Bupe]

So I'm thinking about doing something like this... I went down from 16mg 2 weeks ago as an experiment and went straight from 16 to 4mg to waiting 5 days until I felt WDs come on too much, it took up to 3mg redosing for WDs to fade, waited another 3-5 days, take 2mg, took 1.5mg today.

I want to go down more/faster but the half life is so damn long. I went at least 6 days with no WDs/redosing. I also get scared once the WDs start to kick in since idk if they are just mild and annoying or plain awful.

 

[Bupe]

^ Bupe is so strong, and yet they give it to us addicts to wean us off other opiates....

So strong I have never gotten lucky enough to experience it to get euphoria outside of maintenance knowing I have so much around.

 

[Moredopamine]

It does seem like there is some correlation between the doses you take and the amount of sleep you got. The .20mg and .15mg (the lowest) always had the least amount of sleep whereas .25mg consistently netted more sleep. Perhaps you're just sensitive to dose adjustments?

I'd recommend you cold turkey the opioids and use the sleep aide to ward off insomnia as that seems to be your primary concern (assuming it's a good sleep aide ...) Just use a comfortable sub dose till then.

 

[mlk_2900]

I have no advice, unfortunately, but wanted to lend my support. My personal thoughts, not based on any experience mind you as I have never taken suboxone, is as you mentioned taking the suboxone at your current rate .25 and then going cold turkey when you get your sleep meds. Hopefully they won't get seized, but I understand the fear of that in the back of your mind.

I do agree, after reading for weeks about suboxone and talking with lots of doctors, that suboxone is a strong drug. It perhaps doesn't feel strong, because it isn't made to get people high, but the actual strength of it on the physical aspect of things is real. As much as I am now having subs recommended to me by family members who know of my current problem, I am trying not to go that route for reasons such as you are having. Not, that I blame you at all for taking the subs, insomnia can drive anyone to the brink of insanity, I would have done the same thing at the point you were at. Hopefully though the sleep meds will help with that last hurdle and you will be free and clear before you know it!

 

[eddie.k]

I'm gonna state my history and current predicament I'm just curious if everything I'm going through is natural, and why my body doesn't seem to wanna "adapt" to lower doses.

I had jumped off pods, and made it to day 8 w/out them, only using kratom to stabilize. The insomnia and RLS were my only symptoms, but by night 7 it wasn't getting better, I slept 0 hours, still had RLS, and because I was becoming suicidal at that point I thought it would be smart to transition to suboxone.

So I switched from day 8 off my jump off to .25mg suboxone.
Day 1 - .25mg sub - slept 6 hours
Day 2 - .25mg sub - slept 6 hours
Day 3 - .25mg sub - slept 5 hours
Day 4 - .20mg sub - slept 4-5 hours
Day 5 - .20mg sub - slept 3 hours
Day 6 - .25mg sub - slept 8 hours
Day 7 - .25mg sub - slept 5-6 hours
Day 8 - .20mg sub - slept 4 hours
Day 9 - .15mg sub - complete insomnia - 0 hours sleep
Day 10 - .20mg sub - slept 2 hours
Day 11 - .35mg sub - slept 8 hours (was fed up yesterday morning which is why I went up .15mg I know it was dumb but at least I got a break today)

This process is driving me CRAZY.

It genuinely appears that there is no way to slowly taper sub, and gain my sleep back by maybe an hour every few days.
If I jumped off now wds wouldn't be bad, but I would only be able to deal with insomnia for 4-5 days before I most likely lost my mind again and broke.

I do have detox meds coming soon, so I know I can jump on those and off the sub with no issues which is how I'm gonna get past the insomnia.

But I'm curious as to why the hell in 10 days my sleep literally just goes back and forth. And why is sleep so inconsitent? Like how can I take .25mg one night and sleep for 8 hours, then take the SAME dose the following day and only sleep for 5-6 hours?

It just makes NO LOGICAL sense whatsoever this sleep thing.

I was thinking if I dropped .5mg every few days, I'd adjust, and would slowly gain at least an hour of sleep back so I could drop again. That doesn't seem to want to happen no matter what. But theres been nights where the second or third day at the same dose I actually wind up losing more sleep than the nights before.

Now that would make sense if I was tapering off a large dose of sub from the begining. But I had took 8 days completely off pods. I was thinking if I went on a small dose of sub, I'd get 6-8 hours of sleep back and if I stayed at that dose my sleep would improve within 2-3 days. When my sleep dropped an hour on day 3, and my RLS also intensified for no reason, rather than up my dose I continued the taper, hoping at some point I would adjust. But there is simply no rhyme or reason is seems to doing this.

I DO NOT CARE about hotflashes/chills or any of that crap. I'm just curious as to how after more than 2 weeks now, one completely off opiates, and 1 on a superlow dose of sub, my sleep does NOT appear to want to improve at all. Like what happened to this idea of "stablization"? Does sleep just not stablize unless your 100% off an opiate? I thought it would stablize eventually even if you were on a low dose?

I'm curious as to other peoples experiences at doses this low. How fast/slow did you drop the sub, and how was the insomnia/rls? What dose did you finally stop at? Should I be staying at the same dose for 6-7 days instead of 2-3? Maybe after a week at the same dose I might gain an hour back so I can drop on day 8 and lose that hour again? I mean that was my logic going into this I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

ANY help would greatly be appreciated. My sleep meds will be here either way but I'm still trying to get better right now w/out them and I'm not even seeing a shred of improvement in the sleep/rls department.

...........you have to stay on .25mg for 3 weeks what your doing is wrong... After the 3 weeks u stop completely but make sure to ask ur sub doc for some klonipin before u stop it will help a lot and the w/d after the three weeks are nothing really very very minor that's why u make sure u have some klonipin for depression and anxiety u can take klonipin for 2 or 3 weeks after withy no physical dependence hope this helps it did wonders for me and remember it's all in your head you can do it I did it I was hooked On 80 mg methadone for 6 years suboxone really saved me good luck hope All s well

 

[burn out]

getting off bupe is a peace of cake if you have access to kratom (and considering its legal at least in much of the world, most people do). Simply use kratom to combat any withdrawal symptoms. Getting off kratom is much easier than getting off sub.

 

[JackiePeyton]

I couldn't have done it without klonopin. I was on subs ten years! Way too long. I was scared to quit. It wasn't that bad at all. My shrink kept telling me when I was ready he would call in what I needed, and damn he did. Hook yourself up with a compassionate doctor and get yourself something for sleep. Klonopin hasn't been my favorite, Ativan would have been fine, but for the RLS, nothing is better. There are other remedies for that too, I mean in all honesty a good orgasm will take it right away. I had to have one each night to sleep and I found that to work better than Klonopin. It is the dopamine you are low on. I also find L-tyrosine 2 500mg tabs twice day on an empty stomach is helping. My dopamine is still not up to snuff. I quit on April 16 and I am ok. I jumped at .25-I did that dose for like 2 days, I found it wasn't helping a damn bit so why bother? 0.5 held me, but 0.25 did NOTHING. So I just quit. I did have suicidal thoughts myself, for a couple days. I wanted to do very bad things, I called a friend. Make sure you have a friend who will answer the damn phone. And that is all I can say. Walk in the sun too. Good luck.