first time heroin user how much??

[belarki]

... and yet paracetamol overdose is the leading cause of admissions to ERs for poisoning in some western countries[1]. 4g might be a conservative and precautious estimate of a safe dose but there's no need to be pushing your luck and risking serious liver damage when a 10 minute CWE can minimise the risk substantially.

(1) Daly FF, Fountain JS, Murray L, Graudins A, Buckley NA: Guidelines for the management of paracetamol poisoning in Australia and New Zealand--explanation and elaboration. A consensus statement from clinical toxicologists consulting to the Australasian poisons information centres. Med.J.Aust. 2008; 188: 296-301

 

[Jakeperson]

Yeah I should have mentioned that going over it could be dangerous, it is there for a reason.

 

[shoo-bop]

I remember once being told (a long time ago!) that, as a rough guide, you should consider a gram of paracetamol to put the same load on your liver as about 3-4 standard drinks of alcohol. Don't know how accurate that is, because I can't even remember who told me, but it would certainly explain why taking 5 grams in a single day left you with a sore abdomen.

 

[L3inad]

I remember once being told (a long time ago!) that, as a rough guide, you should consider a gram of paracetamol to put the same load on your liver as about 3-4 standard drinks of alcohol. Don't know how accurate that is, because I can't even remember who told me, but it would certainly explain why taking 5 grams in a single day left you with a sore abdomen.

You cant compare the two - not in that sense anyway.

Paracetemol toxicity is to do with glutathione depletion, and cells loosing their protective buffer. Alcohol just has a toxic metabolite. Both are broken down by different enzymes, making any strain on the liver specific to the one substance(and enzyme).

IMHO 4g a day is not being conservative at all, as glutathione takes time to replenish. As doctors routinely stick an extremely large portion of their hospitalised patients on this dose daily, for extended periods of time. With repeditive dosing, glutathione can run dry and then toxicity occurs.

@belarki. +1 for the citation hehe. First time I've ever seen anyone go to that level on bl

 

[3 to the 3]

I would go a couple of steps further than Drug Mentor and ask:

Ella123, why heroin?

There are so many less addictive fun substancs out there if you want to escape or explore. IMO and no disrespect to H users, heroin is for people experiencing serious PAIN whether it be emotional or physical. There are some inhuman types that don't get addicted to anything much, but they are rare and not usually all fresh and naive sounding like yourself, rather cold, calculated cyborg types.

I have lost a few friends, nursed a few including a sibling through h addiciton and seen so many people lose chunks of their life and try to deal with the shame (self imposed, not societal) for years after..

They were all young,cocky, first time users who weren't going to get addicted.

I know it's uncool on BL, but surely the best HR policy with big H is to question why you would try it at all?

<end rant>

 

[ella123]

^ hey 3 to the 3, i guess i wanted to try heroin because i guess it is a drug that (among other things) puts u to sleep and lately thats all ive felt like doing is just sleep and forget everything. also i know a few people that have started doing it and its sounds like something i really want to experience. i know theres other drugs (alot cheaper than h) out there that can zone u out and stuff but im completely sick of uppers and wanted to try something new. the euphoria from h is amazing from what ive been told: i guess you could say it is the new thing with a few of the people in my circle so to speak.

i have since reconsidered my decision to try it (although it is still something that lingers in my mind quite constantly) but i am sticking to codeine for time being.

 

[opi8]

although it is still something that lingers in my mind quite constantly) :

Imagine that, 100 times worse, for the rest of your life.

 

[Mr Blonde]

So how's that codeine master thread going Mr Blonde

It's finally finished! It's just sitting in the mod thread because I'm waiting on the other moderators to read it first. It may actually end being being broken into two parts; one the codeine and CWE mega thread, the other a mega thread for addiction. I'm actually quite impressed with it, I've been working on it hard for the last week and have in-line citations and a bibliography and everything.

I find it the most euphoric out of any opiates, I love it. I thank my blessings that I get such an awesome high off the cheapest and most accessible opiate

Oh God me too I love it.... 2000mg plus a small bottle of rikodeine gets me feeling pretty good, I need to take a break though to get my tolerance down.

You can snort codeine but it's a lot more of a fuck around - since after a cwe you're left with codeine dissolved in water, you'd have to leave that to evapourate for a day or two, and even then as codeine is a pro drug it needs to go through your liver to become effective anyway. So snorting it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

I would not even consider snorting as a method of administration. As you said, it has to go through first pass metabolism in the liver to become morphine and take effect and the quickest way to make that happen is to take it orally.

As for the evaporating, you can do it in an oven at a low temperature with the door open. Just be careful as at 80°C the codeine will be destroyed.

You cant compare the two - not in that sense anyway.

Paracetemol toxicity is to do with glutathione depletion, and cells loosing their protective buffer. Alcohol just has a toxic metabolite. Both are broken down by different enzymes, making any strain on the liver specific to the one substance(and enzyme).

That's not correct; paracetamol's toxic effects on the liver are due to a metabolite as well; N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine (NAPQI). Normally this metabolite is excreted by conjugation with glutathione, as you said, but in an overdose glutathione stores are depleted trying to deal with the amount of NAPQI produced. The cells don't lose their 'protective buffer' so much as NAPQI is a strong oxidizing agent which destroys the protein structure of the cell membranes and then destroys proteins and nucleic acids inside the cell. This leads to hepatic necrosis, that is, death of the liver.

As for the post/s earlier suggesting that ingesting 4 grams at once was fine, take a look at this study:

Aminotransferase Elevations in Healthy Adults Receiving 4 Grams of Acetaminophen Daily

These increased levels of ALT indicate stress on the liver, and that was in participants taking the paracetamol in divided doses throughout the day. Clearly the substance can have a negative effect on the liver at a single dose of 4 grams, and I'm sure I've read a case report on liver damage resulting from a single dose of 4 grams before.

 

[dopin wounded]

just leave it alone it will take your soul