First time Candy Flip - Bad Trip

[_Tryptamine_]

LSD 100ug + MDMA 80mg - First time candyflipping - Bad trip

Hi guys this is my first post to try and understand what took place last night.

Substances used - 100ug acid, approx 80mg mdma and 2 klonopin 0.5mg.

My school half term started last Friday and because I have exams coming up in a few months my friends and I decided this short one week holiday is going to be our last chance to experience anything incredible before summer. As you've probably figured out we decided to candyflip.

There were 3 of us; we'll say T and O and obviously me, T has tripped 3 times (once with me trip sitting him) before but every time I felt like he never really articulated to any extent how he was feeling, during or after the trip, just that it was 'good' or 'crazy as fuck'. O and I on the other hand had tripped on acid 2 times before, 115ug (with marijuana) the first time (with another goodfellow M)- this experience was wonderfully confusing and euphoric but never unnerving or 'scary'. The second time we decided to do 200ug (also with marijuana) and to say the least the beginning of this trip is something I can not physically describe, to this date I am amazed by the ridiculous euphoria I felt, however O and I decided to go for a walk and things kind of got out of control from there, I figured this was simply because we were inexperienced and found ourselves in a very confusing and scary situation that we weren't ready to deal with, however that's another story. So after approximately 3-4 months wait we decided to trip again.

So the day was seemingly normal, I was excited and nervous all at the same time but was convinced the dreaded bad trip was out of the question due to the fact that the place we were tripping was the perfect setting; my friends house with no parents until the following day. My set was also good, school was over and my saturday night of getting blazed with 3 of my closest friends was a perfect lead up to it. So I arrive at about 1:40 and we're ready to get this trip started.

2:00 p.m. - We drop the acid. So at this point I feel nervous but ready for the trip. We've set up in T's bedroom (because it's the most positive room in our opinion) and all just wait for the acid to take hold, we're all listening to our own music and not really talking, I feel like this may have unnerved me slightly. I've also started a timer on my phone for when we're going to drop the mdma.

2:30 - To be honest I was so focused on checking my phone and when the acid was going to kick in that I probably annoyed myself a bit, however at this point none of us are feeling much, (apart from me but I had smoked a small joint of marijuana at around 9:00 a.m. so I guess this made the effects somewhat more noticeable).

3:00 - Ok, so at this point we're an hour in and I'm definitely feeling something and it all seems to be going pretty well, T and I are sitting on his window ledge overlooking the amazing view while keeping one earphone in to allow the music to direct our minds. O is inside and lying on T's bed minding his own business, listening to his music and waiting for it to fully take effect, however was annoyed by the cold wind on his feet and told us to close the window, this also confused me slightly.

3:00 - 4:00 - So this is a bit of a jump because I'm not sure what happened when. I knew the acid had kicked in because of the body high I was feeling and the colours were definitely much brighter. So O and I are lying on T's bed (two single beds pushed together haha) and listening to our music and definitely enjoying this come-up, however I also had this over looming thought in the corner of my mind about something negative. There is no way I could possibly describe what this negative force was, it was just 'there'. While all of this happening T begins to become a bit uneasy. Although he isn't a very talkative person and doesn't always convey what he's feeling very effectively, O and I could still tell that he was somewhat unnerved and confused.

4:00 - So things are getting pretty weird as in my mind I know there is something wrong but I cannot exactly figure out what, I keep reminding myself that I'm feeling good and there's nothing to worry about because this is a fantastic time but I can't shake myself of this 'bad' feeling. On top of this I am now beginning to worry about whether or not I should take the mdma because this trip is not as good as it is supposed to be. However at the same time I'm telling myself that this trip is good and this so called candyflip will be very good. T at this point is visibly confused and somewhat scared, O and I have experienced the dark, spiky side of LSD and can communicate what we need to do to calm T down without saying anything to each other. Our attempts to put him at ease seem in vain however as, although he is not fully freaking out (by this I mean darting round the place craving for a way out of an awful trip) he is definitely not in a good place. He loops different phrases a few times, for example telling us he wants to take a bath, which he eventually does after saying it about 1000 times lol. I can tell O is feeling quite uneasy, as to be honest we all are at this point. Because he has had a scary time on another substance 2CB - on New Years (I had a weird time as well but not a scary time) he is definitely worried that he is going to end up in a bad place again. Due to this he takes 1 klonopin so that he can calm down a bit, weirdly he and I both couldn't remember he took one seconds after but eventually realised and came to the conclusion that we were really tripping some balls 8(.

4:00 - 5:00 - Alright so at this point T has finished his bath and is still not in a good place and there is definitely a negative atmosphere in the room where we are situated. I am at this point melting into the armchair that I'm sitting in and listening to some really wonderful Pink Floyd however again there is this battle going on in my head to keep any bad thoughts at bay and convince myself I'm ok. So according to the timer on my phone O and I (T hasn't done mdma before so is not going to candyflip) are to take 80 or so mg of mdma each. I cannot tell why this seemed like such a daunting event, I can remember myself thinking anxiously what it will actually do because I can't be having a good trip right now. I attempt to look up on my phone what dropping md is like during an uneasy trip as I cannot recall any of my previous research because quite frankly I am so fucked up at this point. Eventually I convince myself that candyflipping is what we came here to do and I'm going to have an awesome time. O and I both agree on this and it feels like some positive energy has emerged. However seconds before ingesting the mdma we're once again second guessing ourselves but decide to do it anyway. Maybe this was irresponsible and stupid of us but I'm alive.

5:00 - So the mdma has been ingested and I'm honestly just waiting for the wonders of mdma to kick in so that my bad thoughts are disintegrated and locked away. O and I are somewhat anxious at this point and T is not making things any easier by saying things like 'I really shouldn't have taken that acid' or just saying some other random phrases, it seemed to me like he was trying to communicate because he felt so detached and I'm certain he's not had a bad experience before but honestly his sentences were so out of context.

5:30 - We decide to change rooms and go to T's mum's room which has a fantastically large double bed that we can all relax on. O and I are sure the mdma is taking effect because we are more talkative and don't feel the need to hide our emotions like when we were all just sitting in T's room listening to music and battling our minds. So the music is off and we're discussing why this is such a weird trip and have essentially come to grips with the fact that what we just experienced in the past few hours is definitely not good or anything like our previous good experiences. After laughing for a bit and rationalizing this situation O decides to put on some Bob Marley - Three Little Birds, to give off some positive vibes. I can vividly remember this being good and euphoric as I felt at ease finally. T also shouted along to some of the lyrics from the other room and that made me feel happy to an extent. This lasted around 5 minutes. O and I have completely different music to T and the vibes in the new room we're in are beginning to get bad, however I can honestly say there is nothing in that room which is genuinely scary or dark in essence. T is using earphones to listen to some Jazz which personally I am very much not a fan of but everyone to his own right? Not on LSD however, O suggests some house music because mdma and house music go hand in hand right? Well not this time because although I was getting into it a bit T's loud Jazz which was emanating from his earphones distracted O and I significantly and once again sent us into a weird place. Once again we turn off all the music and just sigh but also laugh about how fucked up we are feeling, I received a message at this point on facebook but could not think why it had relevance or what it had to do with anything really, and just ignored it. Come to think of it actually my phone was really causing me some stress, for example I decided I would just turn it off to stop having to worry about it but just before doing so I thought 'wait I need my phone!' This was all very confusing.

6:00 - 7:00 - I swear I've been tripping for days at this point. I am somewhat stressed but thankfully not feeling the full effects of a bad trip which I am very aware of and would definitely not like to revisit, O decides that waiting this one out is too much for our brains and we should just take some klonopin to take the spikes out of this, I don't want to say bad although that's what it probably was but for now, 'uneasy' trip. We take 2 klonopins (which took me about 5 minutes to find even though they were literally in plain sight the whole time) and drink a couple of beers and hope the effects will subside soon enough.

7:00 - To be honest at this point I am just hoping I will come out of this unscathed. Throughout this trip I have had to keep reminding myself to breathe. The load on my chest was intense throughout and I could feel my chest expanding to such an extent with each deep breath I took and then contracting the same way. This seemed to kill my nerves a bit, however the air coming through my nose was for some reason too cold to bare at some points so I had to take smaller breaths which annoyed me. T has been going on about how he wants to smoke a joint or go to the 'common' (a large open space of grass and trees etc) however for one I am quite aware that a joint will not calm me down but only intensify my trip and his. Not to mention there is no way I would be able to roll a joint at this point. Secondly it is dark outside and I feel like going outside will cause me to spiral out of control because I am definitely feeling these negative vibes still.

7:15 - So T has gone out (a very weird argument began between O and T, however was obviously not anyone's fault and he finally decided to go for his walk) and O and I are just dragging our asses through this, messaging the one person we know, who knows that we're tripping balls. It was difficult to understand anything at this point, for example this person said 'think about God', however I couldn't even think in my mind what thinking was, if that makes sense. I found it very difficult to make sense of anything as did O.

8:00 - Around this time the peak effects have definitely subsided and the klonopin as well as the alcohol we drank have thankfully taken hold. I feel somewhat at ease and am not constantly trying to get the idea that I shouldn't have taken the drug out of my head. At this point we have no idea where T is and we give him a call. He's all the way at some shop, not really sure what he's doing, and we tell him to come back and we'll smoke a joint. (However O and I were constantly deciding whether or not the marijuana would just bring back the intense effects of LSD and MDMA, however we decided that we were past that stage)

8:30 - T is home around now and managed to bum two cigarettes from passerbyes which at first had me pleased, however I then realised that I would've much preferred a cigarette earlier and now it just seems very unappealing. I'm not sure what happened next but T was smoking the joint that I rolled for when he got back and this did definitely anger O and I because I was really looking for something to calm me down further.

8:30 - 12:00 - For the remainder of our trip we were dazed and stumbling around the place (we could hardly walk) thankfully due to the klonopins and were not in a bad place. I went home after this rather than staying the night at T's which was my original plan and went straight to sleep.

Ok so thanks for reading and sorry it's so long I just need a place to document my thoughts, I guess what my questions here are; am I simply prone to bad trips? and what exactly is a candyflip, just a more intense trip? This setting was perfect, and I assumed the set was but could have the fact that my exams are coming up so soon or something along those lines affected me? I did not think about that at all however during my trip. Throughout there was nothing objectively bad, just this presence of negativity that never managed to fade. All in all LSD never ceases to amaze me and I have not completely ruled out doing it again but need to know what went wrong here.

Tl;Dr - Candy flipped and it was bad from the start - took mdma 3 hours in and it only got more intense. Then took klonopins and smooth sailing from there.

Thanks and I hope to hear some replies

 

[Tranced]

Ello. Nice report.

I guess what my questions here are; am I simply prone to bad trips?)

I'd say the opposite actually. To my mind, you handled it pretty well. It seems like your friend T was the one having a troubling time. It seems to me like they may have trouble processing/expressing emotions correctly, and it just kind of came out as negativity. Even they handled it pretty well, all things considered. It just sounds like they have some kind of social/emotional issues. They definitely sound like the type of person that could maybe benefit from some MDMA. It can really open people like that up for the better. I've seen it happen to so many people. I think some MDMA could really smooth out your friendship with them.

and what exactly is a candyflip, just a more intense trip?

No, it isn't, at all. This is a common misconception. The key to to understanding a candyflip lies in the name; candy flip. For example, imagine the experience you had on LSD before the MDMA. Typical acid experience. There are bad vibes in the atmosphere (caused in part by the LSD) and you're all picking it up because you're hypersensitive to everything. There is a certain tension/negativity and awkwardness, and basically what the acid is doing is highlighting what is probably always there, deep inside all of you/your relationship to each other. So the experience is just a bit dark. Even if you don't have a bad trip, the experience of LSD generally has a hint of the deep, confusing, unsettling (even if it's a positive experience).

So that's what LSD is like (I speak generally), but before I get onto what the candyflip is like, you should know that you got the timing wrong. Furthermore your setting was completely wrong, but I'll come back to this later. It does depend on dosage, but generally the accepted time to candyflip properly is at the four hour point, and with a sufficiently high dose of LSD.

Now to explain what a candyflip is like. Imagine you're having an LSD trip which is somewhat of a struggle, like you had. At the four hour point you drop the MDMA and you flip the experience into something altogether more beautiful and positive.

The reason that this happens is because at around the four hour point the peak of the acid subsides and instead of the chaotic nature of an acid peak you're left with a perfect transitionary period for the queen of the empathogens, MDMA, to dance with the king of the psychedelics (well, one of them at least), LSD.

The combination is absolute perfection. You're left with the psychedelic nature of the LSD and all of it's deep, hallucinatory virtues, but then you have the gorgeous, euphoric, socially exhilarating beauty and empathy provided by MDMA.

It is a beautiful, hedonistic and utopian experience. Very futuristic and very tribal. The visuals subside to your peripheral slightly and everything becomes more focused. Electronic music sounds incredible and you become perfectly synced and connected, particularly to your friends, music, life, humanity.

And that's why it's called a candyflip.

One of the most beautiful things about it is that to do it, IME, you've got to do a dose of LSD with which you will probably, to some degree, lose your sense of self and forget who you are. Instead of remembering who you are (or were), you proceed to experience a better side of yourself than you ever knew existed.

So no, a candyflip is not more intense... unless you dose the Acid and the MDMA too close together, as I think you did. If you do that, then the MDMA simply makes the LSD stronger. You don't flip anything, you just enhance it, for better or for worse.


I think that you handled the trip pretty well, but next time you may want to consider a better setting. Your friend seemed to be struggling somewhat and you may want to talk about it with them if you haven't already. Just ask them what troubled them, and let them know that it's okay and that they're a friend. I really think they could benefit from some MDMA.

The reason it wasn't more of a positive trip is because the setting was wrong from the get go. I really don't think that things should be segregated when friends are taking psychedelics (unless at some point anybody wants some space, which is fine).

You and your friend were candyflipping (effectively leaving your friend out), and the notion of this could have planted a bad seed before you's even took the LSD. Certainly, when the MDMA did kick in it appears that this somewhat exacerbated the distance between you all. Also, your friend was listening to separate music, which instantly divides everything and creates tension, even if subconsciously.

For future reference, it's best to all be doing the same thing. Set a room as the main room and then have somewhere people can go if they want private space. Have a focal point like some music that you's all like. Something positive. If things get intense, a change of scenery (preferably a walk in nature) can definitely help. For this reason, day time tripping is probably better.

I hope this helps. Don't give up, because that definitely wasn't a bad trip (comparatively speaking, at least). With different people that experience would have certainly went wayward, but it didn't.

Peace

Edit:

This setting was perfect, and I assumed the set was but could have the fact that my exams are coming up so soon or something along those lines affected me? I did not think about that at all however during my trip. Throughout there was nothing objectively bad, just this presence of negativity that never managed to fade.

No, I don't think it had anything to do with exams. It was almost certainly for the reasons I mentioned above. I can say with a high degree of confidence that had you's went for a walk in nature (in day time) everything would have been fine. I think what was lacking was a shared experience to really draw you's together. A walk in nature usually provides this.

 

[_Tryptamine_]

Hey Tranced, I can't tell you how good it feels to hear this. I've been waiting all day for a reply and yours was perfect. LSD really is a crazy substance. I feel like I have learnt quite a lot thankfully, and writing this trip report really did wonders for my mind. This really took a load off my back, thanks man. Anyway, if it's ok I've got a few questions;

-Do you think that my previous bad experience was a major cause of why I had this experience?

-Will taking a break from substances till Summer have a positive effect on my next LSD experience?

-I totally understand now that this setting was not perfect, however do you think that I can't use this setting again maybe with some more close friends and only LSD?

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Tranced]

No problem. I think it's important to help where we can when others are experiencing psychedelics. It helps to get some outside perspective.

Hey Tranced, I can't tell you how good it feels to hear this. I've been waiting all day for a reply and yours was perfect. LSD really is a crazy substance. I feel like I have learnt quite a lot thankfully, and writing this trip report really did wonders for my mind. This really took a load off my back, thanks man. Anyway, if it's ok I've got a few questions;

Yeah, I find writing trip reports really helps. A good way of processing what happened. They're brilliant for reflecting and reminding years down the line as well. I always wish I'd written more.

-Do you think that my previous bad experience was a major cause of why I had this experience?

Perhaps it was, but perhaps there were similar factors back then influencing your trips too. For example if your setting wasn't quite right the other times, then that may have played a part.

-Will taking a break from substances till Summer have a positive effect on my next LSD experience?

Yeah it probably will. If you have an uncomfortable experience, then you don't work on the things that made that experience uncomfortable or repeat them, then you can probably expect another (perhaps even more) negative experience. Plus taking psychedelics when it's warm and sunny is just better.

-I totally understand now that this setting was not perfect, however do you think that I can't use this setting again maybe with some more close friends and only LSD?

I'm unsure which bit you mean. Which part would you like to repeat? Doing it at your friends house?

I almost feel a bit bad saying this, but I've discovered that some close friends just aren't good trip partners. Not only that, but if acid is going to be confusing then I think it's best to have just one friend maximum. It makes things so much easier.

It appeared to me from the trip report that you perhaps have a better chemistry with O (apologies if I'm completely wrong about this), and either way, that certainly appears to be the case in the midst of the psychedelic experience. Maybe trip with just O next time? I really don't mean to be negative about your friend T, but some people just aren't as comfortable to trip around, and he sounds like he might be one of them. Some people can handle that, but personally I just avoid tripping with them, in as nice a way as possible.

If things are confusing on psychedelics, then having three people there just intensifies it even more.

I'd recommend tripping with one person (O).
Sticking some music on (a pre-determined playlist).
Taking a benzo before you trip (I always do).
Doing a candyflip. At the four hour point.

Acid's meant to be tough, but if you can flip it into the sweet stuff at the four hour point then it's always worth it.

BTW, I've just realised you said that the source of your uncomfortable trip the other time was because you went for a walk. I hadn't noticed that the first time round. Obviously my advice regarding going for a walk is null and void if things are too confusing to go for one! Sometimes the confusion is caused by anxiety though, so it can be helpful to go for a walk in the early stages if things are okay.

I really recommend a benzo beforehand though. Some people hate this advice, but I've noticed no reduction in the effect psychedelics have had on my mind. It's just meant I've had something to take the edge off.My friends and I call it the "benzo buffer".

Edit: Just to add that it really seems as if this acid you are taking is at a dose sufficient enough to cause confusion, so resisting it is just causing more confusion. I think this is probably caused by the general setting. Just stick some good music on, in a living room and sit on a couch. Then just lose yourself in the music and let go. That way there shouldn't really be anything in particular to be confused about. If you try and do different things it will just frustrate you.

 

[_Tryptamine_]

Yeah it probably will. If you have an uncomfortable experience, then you don't work on the things that made that experience uncomfortable or repeat them, then you can probably expect another (perhaps even more) negative experience. Plus taking psychedelics when it's warm and sunny is just better.



I'm unsure which bit you mean. Which part would you like to repeat? Doing it at your friends house?

Yeah doing it at my friends house, he'd be ok just getting stoned while we trip to be honest.

Again thanks for the advice, I think I will be ready by Summer and might even try and speak to T about doing some MDMA with O and I.

 

[Tranced]

I think I will be ready by Summer and might even try and speak to T about doing some MDMA with O and I.

I'd definitely recommend this. Does T not like electronic music? I've seen even the most hardened goth kids fall for electronic music after their first dose of MDMA.

 

[_Tryptamine_]

I'd definitely recommend this. Does T not like electronic music? I've seen even the most hardened goth kids fall for electronic music after their first dose of MDMA.

Nah he doesn't, only into jazz and stuff like that.

 

[Xorkoth]

It doesn't sound like you had a bad trip at all. Sometimes trips are negative at points. In fact all of my early trips (except a few) had frightening points. I used to fully expect to say to myself at points something like "why did I do this to myself?" It's just the nature of tripping. Don't get too attached to the label "bad trip" because the way you frame events in your mind is very important to how those events end up affecting you. If you obsess over having a "bad trip", then that experience becomes overwhelmingly negative in your mind. If you instead decide that you just had some rough patches in your trip, then you can instead focus on the good, and use the rough parts to help you understand things about yourself (why did I feel negative at such and such time? How can I work on that? How does it apply to my life in general?)

It honestly sounds like you handled it very well. My third trip ever, I spent the entire thing curled into a ball thinking about how I was scum. When I came down I felt so amazing to be back to normal that I spent the next few hours until dawn with my friends, laughing and joking, and the trip left me feeling amazing. I understood that I was just tripping and that sometimes psychedelics can be frightening. As a result of my mindset afterwards, the trip is one that had a positive influence on me because I learned about myself and the nature of tripping and I was able to forgive myself for beating myself up during it, which helped me in life to be able to forgive myself for my shortcomings. Another person might have decided they had a bad trip, worried constantly that something was wrong with them, and ended up traumatized from the event. Same trip, it's just that the way you framed it was different.

That was 13 years ago... since then I have tripped hundreds of times, and by now I rarely have rough parts to my trips because I have worked that stuff out. But I do still have rough trips sometimes, even now. It's just the nature of the beast.

Thanks for sharing, it was a very well-written and descriptive report.

 

[_Tryptamine_]

Thanks Xorkoth,

The information you receive on this forum is truly phenomenal, it's so difficult trying to understand it by yourself but hearing from the much more experienced definitely gives me confidence that the idea that I can't have a good trip is a load of crap really.

My first trip on acid was truly incredible to say the least like a new world, giggles, euphoria just amazing, although confusing at points but never as discussed in that report. So it just saddens me that something so beautiful can also be quite horrifying. However also I feel like the few times I've done LSD I understand even less now, not because I've lost knowledge but because there's so much more to understand than I originally imagined.

Really I'm just hoping that in Summer I can prove to myself that I can have a fantastic trip.

Anyway thanks again, I very much appreciate the response.