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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

(Fioricet/?? mg) - First time - Not what I expected. At all.

xburtonchic

Bluelighter
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
1,004
I got a concussion and fractured skull last night, and the doctor at the ER prescribed me Fioricet. I asked him if it was an opiate; he said "No, but be careful with it anyways." Concussion or not, I understand the underlying message of "if you take too much of this drug, you will get high." So I researched it this morning, like I do with all new drugs, on Erowid.

The experience vaults basically all described it as a euphoric, opiate-mixed-with-benzo-like high. Opiates are my drug of choice, and when I choose to indulge in a few more Xanax than my daily dose, I enjoy the buzz; I figured the caffeine would balance out the sedative effects and leave nothing but euphoria, so to me, it seemed like the perfect drug. I'm not supposed to drive anywhere for the next 24 hours... but honestly, my head was absolutely ruining me (Ibuprofen wasn't helping and my discharge instructions said to avoid aspirin), I was bored as shit being stuck at home all weekend because of this stupid fucking concussion, the pharmacy is literally a block away, and my dizziness and blurred eyesight wasn't so bad at that point in time. I figured it would be okay to rush to the pharmacy real quick and pick up my script. (It WAS in fact fine, by the way... but after I got home the concussion symptoms were escalated due to the bright lights and noise in the store, walking around so much, and having to concentrate on driving. But I didn't crash and that's all that matters!)

The Erowid experience vaults mostly said that one will suffice if you don't have a tolerance, but since I actually needed it for the excruciating pain in my face, I decided to take 1 and a half instead, just in case. My script says to take two at a time, so it's not like I was taking more than I should have. I was totally expecting an opiate/benzo type high; I also expected the caffeine included in the drug to counteract any sedative affects... but that is not what happened. Not even close.

So. Let the trip report begin.

Dosage: 75 mg butalbital, 488 mg of APAP, and 60 mg of caffeine (Fioricet).
Other info: 100 lbs, 5'2, female. Earlier that day - I'd say about four hours prior to this, perhaps a little bit less - I had taken 4 mg of buprenorphine and naloxone (Suboxone), and 1 mg of alprazolam (Xanax). I am on Suboxone as maintenance, daily, and I take Xanax daily as well for GAD, so I have a good tolerance to both of those drugs. I have NO tolerance to barbituates. The closest I've come to it are benzos and alcohol.
T + 0:00: Broke one of the halves into quarters for faster absorption - took those and one full pill - and washed it down with orange juice. Went outside to sit outside in the sun, Facebooked it for a while, and drank some orange juice while I waited for it to kick in.
T + 0:20: Started to feel a pronounced light-headedness/dizziness, even while sitting down. Ignored this, because I wasn't sure if it was due to the drug or the concussion.
T + 0:45: Fighting my ass off to stay awake at this point. Fell asleep in the chair I was sitting in several times, only to wake up and discover I had been in the middle of a text message or Facebook comment that I hadn't finished. This went on for the next hour and a half or so, I'd say.
T + 2h: Finally able to keep my eyes open, but still with some difficulty. I was tired, but there was no comedown or crazy hangover to speak of.
T + 2h:30: Finally felt alert and was back to baseline.

There was no comedown or annoying side effects aside from the extreme drowsiness. I was not expecting to become tired though - I was expecting to enjoy a nice, euphoric, opiate-benzo-like high - productive and alert, like the Erowid experience vaults said, due to the caffeine. Overall, it wasn't horrible but it wasn't enjoyable either. The only good thing about it is that I "woke up" from the "high" feeling very refreshed, more so than I ever do waking up in the mornings... and it DID ease the pain and symptoms of my concussion a bit.

I would compare it very closely to Clonodine as far as the drowsiness goes. That's exactly what it felt like, except without the general "I feel like absolute fucking shit" feeling upon the drug wearing off. There was a little bit of irritability to speak of, but only slightly.All in all, it seems like a good drug - gets the job done very well for it's intended purpose. Personally though, I don't see any recreational use in it. HOWEVER... I am not counting out the fact that I was taking them because I actually needed them, or the fact that I took one other depressant and one other sedative earlier that day, or the fact that I'm just... not tolerant to barbituates in any way... so it's possible I just took more than I needed to in order to feel a high... much like if you take too much Suboxone or Xanax, you crash out instead of getting the euphoric effects.

I'm going to try again tomorrow, and take only one full pill (without breaking it in half), before I take my daily dose of Suboxone or Xanax. Maybe that will make a difference. I'll update this if it does. If not, then I guess now we know those three drug interactions do nothing but make you pass out cold... even if the pharmacist says otherwise ;)
 
I wonder how this one would be on it's own. In combination with the benzos I wonder if some potentiation is occurring, even though you seem pretty experienced with the benzos and would have a tolerance. You never know what enzymes are gonna be upregulated or inhibited when you throw something new into your stack.

I do agree though, the described effects sound amazing. Same with Tramadol actually, and I know you didn't like that!
 
I wonder how this one would be on it's own. In combination with the benzos I wonder if some potentiation is occurring, even though you seem pretty experienced with the benzos and would have a tolerance. You never know what enzymes are gonna be upregulated or inhibited when you throw something new into your stack.

I do agree though, the described effects sound amazing. Same with Tramadol actually, and I know you didn't like that!

I wonder that too. I think it would be good, personally. I only took .5 mg of Xanax today and 2 mg of Suboxone, and decided to try the Fioricet again, except I only took a half of a pill this time. So I guess that's about 35 mg of it, give or take. I do feel SLIGHT euphoria, but very slightly. Taken on it's own, and with a larger dose, I think it would indeed produce the effects described in other trip reports. I might take another half a pill to find out, but I'm trying to save them since I only have four left (I honestly have no idea how that happened... I was probably stupid and took a bunch when I idiotically tried to get high off the Tramadol and ended up sending myself into some sort of fucked up oblivion instead haha). Bummer, because I wanted to keep them around for when I run out of Xanax. Guess I could try to get one more refill, but my pharmacy is already wary of me... so I don't know if I want to push it.

Oh well.
 
When I had practically no tolerance to any GABA-ergics (even alcohol), I took 100 mg butalbital (2 Fiorinal) before school and felt very nice. It is a different high, but it is a high. The effects tend to last longer than they feel because the onset is the best. I would never compare it to clonidine, ever, but that's me. I am very fond of butalbital.
 
Yep. That is barbiturates in a nutshell, ime.

Yep, quite the boring little drug. Maybe if I had no tolerance to opiates and benzos and didn't know what those felt like... or if I had zero experience with drugs in general, except maybe weed... *shrug*
 
I, for one, like barbs quite a lot. Then again:

1. I am a huge benzo fan/fiend, and

2. I am arguably a very boring person.
 
I'll argue that. It made me laugh. And boring people usually don't make others laugh ;)

You know, the weird thing is, I feel like I am a very dull, uninteresting person. However, I am not tooting my own horn, but I've been approached and told that I am a very interesting person more times than I could ever count. On top of that, alot of my friends, as well as other random people I meet, have told me that I'm the funniest person they've ever met. I don't quite get it; all I do is say what's on my mind and never censor myself. I am also a very inappropriate/vulgar person at times. It's whatever.
 
You know, the weird thing is, I feel like I am a very dull, uninteresting person. However, I am not tooting my own horn, but I've been approached and told that I am a very interesting person more times than I could ever count. On top of that, alot of my friends, as well as other random people I meet, have told me that I'm the funniest person they've ever met. I don't quite get it; all I do is say what's on my mind and never censor myself. I am also a very inappropriate/vulgar person at times. It's whatever.

Haha I don't think you're seeing yourself correctly! You seem like an interesting enough person to me. All of the most interesting people I know speak exactly what's on their mind and never censor themselves, and/or they're inappropriate. Not gonna lie, I'm one of those people who doesn't know how to censor themselves at times. I'm really vocal with my opinions, and most of them tend to clash with the general population's. Especially with politics. It pisses people off sometimes, but hey, if you're not pissing people off, you're not catching their attention... and that means you're not interesting.

Trust me. You're not boring. I've only seen a few of your posts, and I can tell you that already lol.
 
Haha I don't think you're seeing yourself correctly! You seem like an interesting enough person to me. All of the most interesting people I know speak exactly what's on their mind and never censor themselves, and/or they're inappropriate. Not gonna lie, I'm one of those people who doesn't know how to censor themselves at times. I'm really vocal with my opinions, and most of them tend to clash with the general population's. Especially with politics. It pisses people off sometimes, but hey, if you're not pissing people off, you're not catching their attention... and that means you're not interesting.

Trust me. You're not boring. I've only seen a few of your posts, and I can tell you that already lol.

Damn, dude, thank you. That means alot to a guy like me. I sometimes wonder how many people on this earth are like me. I don't understand living your life never being what I would consider being honest with people. I've got one life; I want the people who know me to know me, if you know what I mean. I've lost so many people so young through my addiction, that I'm starting to learn what it means to take advantage of what time you do have...tomorrow is not promised. Plus I'm 27, a pretty volatile age for a musician/addict, so it was kind of do or die. Not saying I don't still have my problems, but I'm not a junkie anymore.

I have people get angry with me, sometimes to the point that they never speak to me again, because I can and will tend to make a joke out of everything. NOT AT ALL boasting here; it's not cool, but OD'ing 5 times near-fatally in 4 months late last year taught me some valuable life lessons...the most important of which is: Don't take life too seriously.

Take care, man, and keep telling people the truth! :-D It may change someone's life upon reflection.
 
Damn, dude, thank you. That means alot to a guy like me. I sometimes wonder how many people on this earth are like me. I don't understand living your life never being what I would consider being honest with people. I've got one life; I want the people who know me to know me, if you know what I mean. I've lost so many people so young through my addiction, that I'm starting to learn what it means to take advantage of what time you do have...tomorrow is not promised. Plus I'm 27, a pretty volatile age for a musician/addict, so it was kind of do or die. Not saying I don't still have my problems, but I'm not a junkie anymore.

I have people get angry with me, sometimes to the point that they never speak to me again, because I can and will tend to make a joke out of everything. NOT AT ALL boasting here; it's not cool, but OD'ing 5 times near-fatally in 4 months late last year taught me some valuable life lessons...the most important of which is: Don't take life too seriously.

Take care, man, and keep telling people the truth! :-D It may change someone's life upon reflection.

Touche to that. I don't think life was ever meant to be taken too seriously. It should be to a degree, but not too much... otherwise it just gets really boring haha. Also, you're welcome... and congrats on getting off the dope. You've survived five overdoses, clearly you're here for a reason. You take care too dude. :) <3
 
Humor can heal any situation. I was a pallbearer at my grandmother's funeral earlier this year...talk about a sad day. But during the service I had the chance to say something about her, so I went up in front of everyone and made a joke about how good her coffeecake was. Everyone laughed. That's the best example I can come up with off the top of my head .

About the dope...hell yeah, thank you. I'm very happy to be alive these days.

Glad I got a new friend with a similar perspective! Much love to ya, bro.
 
Great report! I hate when some people take a prescription pill and blow the "high" out of proportion in their trip reports. I end up taking a few and have the shittiest time. At least I know that the Fioricet I have waiting for me in my desk isn't as good of a high is I read it to be.
 
Aww that's awesome! You got some skillz if you can make a funeral laugh! I totally agree though, the other day I was sitting in my car stressing out over everything going on in my life... and then I realized that I'm not going to be around forever. I wasn't thinking about it in a morbid sort of way, just in a... my time on this earth is temporary, none of this shit matters in the long run... type of way.

Ugh I hate when people blow their highs out of proportion too... doing so is not helpful to anyone really. 8(
Honestly though I'm finding barbs to be pretty interesting. Last week, I took a Fioricet (same dosage as this trip report, without doing anything differently) and felt a very pronounced sense of empathy similar to a good roll but not as strong. I didn't have the urge to hug everyone, but I would think about certain people and feel a sudden, strong appreciation and love for them. I also felt a bit more alert than usual... definitely no falling asleep that time! But then last night, I also took one (again same as always)... and I just felt nothing. At all. No tiredness OR alertness, it was as if I hadn't taken anything at all. Barbs are strange... enjoyable when they work, but not enough to be my DOC... idk they're just kind of hit or miss for me, I suppose.
 
Aww that's awesome! You got some skillz if you can make a funeral laugh! I totally agree though, the other day I was sitting in my car stressing out over everything going on in my life... and then I realized that I'm not going to be around forever. I wasn't thinking about it in a morbid sort of way, just in a... my time on this earth is temporary, none of this shit matters in the long run... type of way.

Ugh I hate when people blow their highs out of proportion too... doing so is not helpful to anyone really. 8(
Honestly though I'm finding barbs to be pretty interesting. Last week, I took a Fioricet (same dosage as this trip report, without doing anything differently) and felt a very pronounced sense of empathy similar to a good roll but not as strong. I didn't have the urge to hug everyone, but I would think about certain people and feel a sudden, strong appreciation and love for them. I also felt a bit more alert than usual... definitely no falling asleep that time! But then last night, I also took one (again same as always)... and I just felt nothing. At all. No tiredness OR alertness, it was as if I hadn't taken anything at all. Barbs are strange... enjoyable when they work, but not enough to be my DOC... idk they're just kind of hit or miss for me, I suppose.

I don't think that's morbid, just honest. There are things that are worth stressing over, but for me they are few in number.

As far as the Fioricet goes, I started thinking back to when I was hooked on it. Things had gotten pretty bad, taking 15 of them a day, easy. Too much caffeine, too much APAP. I was crazy for them, they were honestly quite euphoric and long-lasting, but after taking them for a few days, I just felt the same from them all the time...which was pretty good, but nothing to write home about. So I would stop taking them for a few days, but could never handle the horrific w/d symptoms, so I'd go back to them. That went on for an easy 8 or 9 months. I still like to have them around for headaches, though. They work as well as the triptans, but are far less dangerous.
 
I have some personal/direct experience on this issue, so here's my $0.02:

I'm on/prescribed butalbital daily (for some time now, also buprenorphine- aka the generic subutex pill version, 4mg/day). I must take ~1250-1750mg (per day, usually split into 4 doses; 250mg-500mg in the day; higher end doses, approaching ~1000mg at night) to stay out of GABAergic withdrawal. Despite your daily intake of benzodiazepines which is similarly a PAM at GABA-a; you would need at least 2-4, pills (100-200mg of butalbital) if not higher, to get any additional effects.. if you' or anyone else is looking to safely do so. As i have in bold below (to the OPer), this drug does have a long duration of action. Some lingering symptoms of dizziness, drowsiness, & slight "drunken" feeling my persist the next day. But w/ my daily intake (& obvious tolerance)- the effects me start from t+ 0:15, t+0:30-2:00 is the peak; feel at baseline around t+6:00-7:00 hour mark. It can take as long as t+14:00 for a night/high dose to fully wear off (usually around 700-800mg,if a particularly large dose is needed for my insomnia on a given night. Usually my night dose is 500mg-700mg)

I also have no benzodiazepine tolerance. Despite butalbital (fioricet) binding at different GABA-a receptor sites; benzodiazepines & barbiturates both positively modulate the GABA-a receptors at binding sites, just via different pharmacological mechanisms (this is where cross potentiation comes from). They're USUALLY cross tolerant, too, in most cases (i.e., i could take an equivalent GABAergic dose of say, preferably lorazepam or clonazepam, around 6-9mg for either, to replace one dose of butalbital of ~300-600mg) & paradoxically in most cases potentiate one another, assuming one is taking a dose of the 2nd GABAergic that would equal a typical maintenance dose, pharmacokinetically (ALSO- depends on the barbiturate & its hepatic function, some barbs--like phenobarbital--interfere w/ major metabolism process & my severely weaken the effects of other psychoactives, including benzodiazepines; there is unfortunately & surprisingly very little information on butalbital's hepatic potential interaction? if any?).

As benzodiazepines span a wide class of drugs ("benzodiazepine derivatives"). For ME? I find certain types work better than others in cross activity, GABAergic situations of polydrug use: triazolobenzodiazepines, such as triazolam & alprazolam (xanax), seem to be surprisingly & extremely inferior to traditional 1,4,-benzodiazepines, including diazepam (valium), clonazepam (klonopin), & lorazepam (ativan). the latter group (of which i prefer either lorazepam or clonazepam) do the following: 1. my daily intake of butalbital is reduced by ~10%-25% within 12-36hrs after a single, equivalent dose (i.e., lorazepam is usually ~6.5mg-7mg, would be able to skip one of my 4 daily butalbital dosages) and 2. It creates similar, increased effects for recreation. Barbiturates have more "sloppy" effects at their beta-bending site at GABA-a- which will cause unwanted issues w/ general symptomatology of "drunkenness"; an added extra benzodiazepinergic ontop of my daily maintenance would allow higher doses w/ same hypnotic & anxiolytic effects.

Longer, or "intermediate" acting, barbiturates like butalbital which also have lower lipid solubility mean they produce less pronounced acute effects at typical doses. But, thy can be felt w/ butalbital- it just generally needs to be at or above 200mg for recreational doses. I find it much more euphoric than any of the benzodiazepine type drugs i've tried: triazolam, etizolam, alprazolam (xanax), clonazepam (klonopin), temazepam, & diazepam (valium).




(BTW- glad to see a thread on this.. there needs to be A LOT more discussion on butalbital/fioricet & potential/unaviodable polydrug use of it; since fioricet is still widely used in the US, its not even a controlled level substance here. Butalbital BY ITSELF is Schedule III; but the fioricet formula--or others close to it, w/ butalbital & at least 2 other chemicals; not aware if its mandated by the FDA to literally be an analgesic AND/OR caffeine or not, are NOT CONTROLLED/SCHEDULED, they're technically "Rx only")
 
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