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Finishing sub taper with short-acting opioid

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Bigsammy610

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
166
So I've heard about this and seen a few threads that partially answered the question.

I would be coming off one year of subutex maintenance therapy. After I get to the "jumping point" at about .5 mg a day, would a 3-day taper of short-acting opioids be beneficial? This would only be if I felt like shit after jumping off the subs.

Hypothetical question, just trying to figure out my plan when I taper off because my doc really doesn't have much input on the tapering. She would let me stay on the tex forever. Anybody have personal experience with this?
 
I would try .5 every other day as opposed to short acting opiates. (Homeless ----- > Other Drugs)
 
Yup, taking oxy is too risky imo, better off staying on the bupe as opposed to scratching that opiate itch. I know it's not ur intention to get high but after all were all addicts here and were only human.
 
Hey Bigsammy, check out my similar thread about this:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...pe-to-Tliidine-with-the-intention-of-quitting

But I would only recommend taking a very low potent opioid for this (Tilidine, Tramadol or Kratom, nothing stronger because of the reasons Cliffy said).

I havent made it though. But I had experiences before (quitting 0,5mg Bupe with 5 days of Kratom and then kicking everything) that still resulted in a week of surprising hell.

At the moment I have 30x50mg Tilidine and 80g of Kratom available and will switch the day after tomorrow (again...).
I will report here if thats ok because my old thread is not frequented anymore.
 
Zerwas said:
Hey Bigsammy, check out my similar thread about this:
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...pe-to-Tliidine-with-the-intention-of-quitting

But I would only recommend taking a very low potent opioid for this (Tilidine, Tramadol or Kratom, nothing stronger because of the reasons Cliffy said).

I havent made it though. But I had experiences before (quitting 0,5mg Bupe with 5 days of Kratom and then kicking everything) that still resulted in a week of surprising hell.

At the moment I have 30x50mg Tilidine and 80g of Kratom available and will switch the day after tomorrow (again...).
I will report here if thats ok because my old thread is not frequented anymore.
Click to expand...

Yeah do that I'm curious about your method.
 
I plan on doing just this, but with Hydrocodone 10mg 3x/day dispensed by a family member who isn't manipulable. I plan on taking the Hydrocodone for a little longer, like a couple weeks, as buprenorphine has a build-up effect because of it's insane half life. I really don't think 3 days would be enough time to "switch addictions", so to speak. But, I've heard enough Bupe w/d horror stories as well as having gone through 150mg Methadone detox (in jail no less with ZERO comfort meds, including fucking tylenol) which lasted 45 days straight. AND in some people, bupe has a longer half-life than Methadone... fuck that noise.

I'd much rather take a week off of school and suffer and be good afterwards (minus PAWS) than go through an admittedly smoother, but nonetheless lingering, 60 day opiate kick. No thanks.
But the key for the plan to work is for you to have someone you trust hold the medication, and to take the lowest possible dose that kills your withdrawals (as you should be doing with Buprenorphine, or any maintenance opioid to begin with anyway).

Codeine would be a good one two, as it's available OTC in every country but the USA and some Islamic Nations. But, that could backfire cos of the super-easy availability as well. ; )

Best of luck to you whatever course of action you decide upon : )
 
"I plan on taking the Hydrocodone for a little longer, like a couple weeks"

Whereas, you initially stated for three days. See the addict mind already undermining your best laid plans?

I agree with the 0.5-mg every other day approach outlined above. A full agonist is going to be too remindful of your early use days and... Good chance for relapse.
 
Lol I had this exact convo w/ my counselor yesterday...been on subs 3 yrs @8mg now @ 1/2 of 1mg...haven't done my DOC in 3 years...tried going down to 1/4 of 1mg & felt just like my old addict self again, tried skipping a day, boom addict self again...super discouraged because of that & was hitting ppl up for opiates...back to the 1/2mg dose..told counsel I been thinkin of just doing oxy for a week to get through the sub w/d & cravings but he talked me out of it (so far) lol just don't think I can make it even through the first day of not taking sub, sucks. I'm 24 & have just been wasting my life away on these things, my "good" years, they hold me back & are bad for my mouth n just sick of needing it. Please let me know if you do decide to go w/ that plan as i am super interested & at sort of a crucial time in my recovery as I've seriously been flirting w/ just doing opiates again dont want to be 4 years on subs over a less than a year of heroin use (although was a big pill user previous)
 
DiacetylEros said:
Codeine would be a good one two, as it's available OTC in every country but the USA and some Islamic Nations.
Click to expand...

Just to correct: Codeine is not OTC but a prescription drug in nearly every european country. Only in France and Switzerland you can get some without a prescription iirc.

Also depending on the length and dose of intake Sub-WD can be relatively short. Mine lasted about 6 days after being on ~1mg for about one year.
 
^ codeine is also OTC in england, not sure about other countries but i think it's OTC in several. not to mention most of latin america.

speedballs_over said:
"I plan on taking the Hydrocodone for a little longer, like a couple weeks"

Whereas, you initially stated for three days. See the addict mind already undermining your best laid plans?

I agree with the 0.5-mg every other day approach outlined above. A full agonist is going to be too remindful of your early use days and... Good chance for relapse.
Click to expand...

you're quoting two different people here

honestly, when i jump off bupe, i hope i got enough short-acting stuff laying around in order to do a FULL switch like others are talking about. you aren't gonna get high on 5mg of hydrocodone or 50mg of tramadol or whatever if you've been on bupe for years. the way i see it, if your mind is in the right spot, you'll be able to do it, and if your mind isn't, then the taper wasn't gonna work no how.

@OP and zerwas - if i were you, especially if you've been on bupe for years, then i would definitely try to get on a short acting opiate. bupe definitely builds up in the system, especially at doses above 2mg. so if you tapered relatively fast, and are on .5mg now but were on 2mg+ a few weeks ago, it could still be at higher levels than you might expect in your body.

i would only make the switch to a short acting opiate when you're very close to being ready to jump though. don't taper further with a short acting opiate, that will increase your chances of running into trouble. get yourself on one dose of something like codeine, maybe hydrocodone if you can't get codeine, something like 5mg 3 times a day, then twice a day, and then once and then none. but i wouldn't do something like switch to 25mg hydro 3x a day then go to 20mg and 15mg and so on. that's where you are more likely to have issues because you'll be more likely to come up with a rationalization for why you can take a little bit more today and so on. but if you just get on one dose and one dose only, that's personally what i would do.

just a note: personally i would avoid tramadol for tapering. other people might have different experiences, but i tried it once and that shit was like a stimulant. the opposite of what i would need when i'm trying to get off opiates. it made some of the wd go away for me but also made me feel worse in some aspects, eg difficulty sleeping etc
 
Update:

Day 3 without Bupe, on 200mg of Tilidine or 4g of Kratom about every 5 hours. This morning I took 10mg of Diazepam additionally and feel pretty good. I am gonna hit the gym later and cook something nice. I don't have to work the next week and will stock on Gabapentin and L-Tyrosine tomorrow. Maybe a few more Benzos. My opioid taper stash is neough for 2 or 3 more days.
I will report the day I am kicking the Kratom (only 6x50mg Tilidine left). Probably wednesday. So far it was no problem.
 
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