film: fahrenheit 911

[wanderlust]

Moore's new film: Too hot for Disney

Is there free speech in the Magic Kingdom? asked The New York Times in an editorial. Apprenetly not. The Walt Disney Company has forbidden its Miramax film division from distrubiting left-wing filmmaker michael Moore's new movie Fahrenheit 911. Moore calls his latest movie a "docucomedy" that mocks President Bush's handeling of 9/11 and spotlights the links between the Bush family and wealthy Saudis, including the family of Osama bin Laden. Disney's cowerdly excuse is that Moore's film migt offend some of its customers, especially during a highly charged presidential-election year. Strang: Everey day, Disney's radio division airs the anit-John Kerry rantings of right-wing pundit Sean Hannity.

Disney's real motivs are obvious, said Craig Unger in Salon.com. It;s terrified of angering the powerful Bush family. As the author of a book on the Saudi-bush connections, I can attest that Moore's explosive charges about the Bushes are true. In the hours after Sept. 11, eight planes were allowed to take off and pick up 140 Saudis in 12 U.S. cities, including two dozen of bin Laden family members. They were all flown out of the country, beyond the reach of the F.B.I. -- all with the apparent approval of the saudi's friends in the White House. But Moore doesn't really prove that, said michelle Cottle in The New Republic. In fact, he doesn't prove anything in this film, or Roger & Me, or in his book Stupid White Men, or any of his self-indulgent pieces of propaganda. Moore pretends to be a "muckraking journalist," but he constantly "twists, misrepresents, and reinvents reality to fit his adgenda." He's nothing more than a "dumpier, left-wing version of Ann Coulter." Now he's crying censorship, hoping to pump up his box office. But Disney is not the government, and it has no obligation to distribute a pseudo-documentary it sees as "detrimental to its business interests."

This issue is a lot bigger than Michael Moore, said Jay Boyar in the Orlando Sentinel. He'll easily find another distributer for his movie. The real problem is that a few "giant conglomerates" like Disney now control the entire movie indusrty, and they are turning their backs on any filmmaker who "might ruffle some feathers." In a country this big, there should be litterally dozens of Micheal Moores on both the left and the right, making thoughtful films that challenge audiences to think. Instead, our movie theaters are fiilled with predictable Hollywood pap. "So shed no tears for Michael Moore." Save them for the legions of aspiring filmmakers "who will never have their say."

-from vol 4 issue 157 The Week

michael moore's letter about the blockage of his film

moore's website with updates on the film's progress

being a big fan of moore and agreeing that yes, what he does spew out is propaganda in its own right... i cannot wait for someone out there to pick up this film.
and more inportantly i exceedingly agree with the paragraph from Boyar.
some jewels do slip through such as moore films and the newest example 'supersize me' but unless you are more in touch with the underground film world, or follow the festivals such as cannes most people dont get to hear about, let alone see, films that go against popular ideas, big companies, or political groups.

 

[wanderlust]

oh and i also love the irony of the title

tag line: the temperature where freedom burns

 

[BA]

I've been anxious to see what all the fuss is about regarding this movie, too. I take everything Michael Moore says with a grain of salt anyways, but I'm still interested in seeing this movie.

 

[wanderlust]

propaganda is not always a negative term inheriently
prop.a.gan.da- n. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
i do not mean it as a label of negativity, just as exactly as the definition says without bais either way

i throughly enjoy the vehicle of his message, the way he delivers and the humor... he has balls to say something he knows isnt popular but he puts it out there with ease and a humor that makes *some* people believe it is pure truth, without question, which shows just how intelligent he can be.
his propaganda has different levels to it- on one level he 'brainwashes' people with his humor and charisma and makes little leftists out of movie see-ers, an example- as i stated in bowling thread is that after that movie my mom still spits hate for dick clark. on another level he throws humorous curve balls that make people sink in their seats, squirm, stand up in outrage or throw fits (among other reactions). his words have power- power to infuriate, to level, to excite people into politcal outrages both for and against his causes. whatever the reaction, it is better than no reaction for him. a reaction causes publicity over the exact things he wants- himself and the causes he is championing... as said no publicity is bad publicity. the public becomes aware of little known things that he showcases even if his facts may or may not be skewed. shocking to awareness is a nessecery evil in moore's mind, i would venture to say. and i admire the way he craftily can stir up deep emotions in people and sell his wares to so many.


i am def. to the left of the center so that adds even more enjoyment to this for me. i have liked him since high school perhaps ten years ago and have over the years developed the reasoning to take what he has to say and present with the proverbial grain of salt. i think he is a hell of a film maker (uhh except for canadian bacon) and first-class at his craft of spin and propaganda

 

[onetwothreefour]

hmm. the more i see of moore the more he annoys me (oh, so many "mores" ), but he still has some very relevant and intelligent things to say. still, to even attempt to paint this issue in a way which suggests that the film might not be released is such a fucking crock. the amount of power this guy has within hollywood right now is amazing, and with his cannes nomination too, he has zero chance of not getting it out there. it's just a publicity thing.

still, i'm very much looking forward to the film itself. like i said, just 'cause i don't like moore doesn't mean that he isn't bringing to light a helluva lot of interesting information that needs to be seen, and thus this should reveal a lot. should be very good.

 

[wanderlust]

i said i like the vehicle of his message, his presentation, his humor... if there was a right wing comperable to moore i believe i would enjoy watching/listening
hey i watch mclauglin group every sunday and the person i enjoy listening to the most on there is not the annoying democrat chick but it is pat buchanan (and i believe he is a ring wing devil)

and yes someone will pick this up, thats why i said i cant wait and didnt indulge on a rant about how could they turn him down?! and now the truth will never be told!! (ha!)... but unlike moore with all his power, spin savy, and histrionics other non conservative film makers arent so lucky

 

[Pander Bear]

propaganda is not always a negative term inheriently
prop.a.gan.da- n. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
i do not mean it as a label of negativity, just as exactly as the definition says without bais either way

Actually, I think the term propoganda always carries with it a negative connotation. To me the key word is systematic. It implies that the information distributed is not spoken innocently, that there are greater goals Moore is trying to attain, that he would not be able to meet, were he to come out and ask people upfront. Propoganda treats people as means to an end, rather than ends in themselves (thanks kant).

i said i like the vehicle of his message, his presentation, his humor... if there was a right wing comperable to moore i believe i would enjoy watching/listening

His name is Ted Nugent, hes got a very strange show on VH1. Heh, I don't think that Moore and Nugent are a perfect match, but there are certinly crazy, funny right-wingers out there.

 

[wanderlust]

i believe more that propaganda has a negative stigma attatched with it more than being from the root negative
anger is seen as negative while its outcome can be driving and possitive, in the begining i feel anger is neutral- the direction in which it takes develops the light in which it is seen poor or for good/possitive or negative

fliers, ads, billboards and other market flooding things discussing control of AIDS in a third world country can be seen as propaganda... the systematic distribution is to, say, 18-28 year olds in a town where there is a large number of infected men and a increasing number of AIDS infected babies being birthed. the demographic is targeted and the information (that is of the view that AIDS is a killer and without precautions there will be an ever growing threat to these people) is distruibited. the people distributing are acting in their own interest of not infecting others or themselves and not having a larger epidemic break out which could effect everything from population to health care costs to the economy. it is, by definition, systematic and of a certian view that helps the ones advocating (even if on another level it also helps others) so it is propaganda.... yet it is not negative.

ted nugent looks a bit scary to me... but i may just have to check it out.
more of the right wingers i have seen or heard have been more annoying than entertaining... such as rush limbaugh whos arrogance makes me despise him much more than his message ever would

 

[Pander Bear]

^^
AIDS: good point. This discussion becomes meaningless once we start using self referential words like propoganda, awareness, information, indoctrination, et cetera. Its kind of crazy, who gets to decide what is what.

Anyway, The Nuge is a bit scary, I think. I'm only sold on the idea becuase I think hunting consenting humans with less than lethal force sounds like a wonderful way to spend a weekend. So far, though, the show has amounted to nothing more than people eating chili off of eachother, and farting into microphones. Thats not what I got cable for, so I'll check in with it later.

 

[onetwothreefour]

Originally posted by wanderlust
and yes someone will pick this up, thats why i said i cant wait and didnt indulge on a rant about how could they turn him down?! and now the truth will never be told!! (ha!)... but unlike moore with all his power, spin savy, and histrionics other non conservative film makers arent so lucky

just in case you thought i was having a go at you, i wasn't: i meant that moore is a being a dick by playing up this news that his film might not be released when that's just blatantly untrue.

still, it appears to have gotten a good reception at cannes: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=17587

 

[wanderlust]

yup top honors at cannes

 

[GentlemanLoser]

Moore is a comedian first, and a politician second. While he is entertaining, his bleeding little heart nags more than it informs.

Also, he should hire a fucking image consultant because I take him less seriously since he looks like me after I wake up from a 3 day liquor binge. And of course, thats the best time to spew propaganda.

I'd say Bill Mahr is more entertaining, if not equally as annoying, but at least he tries to act legit (aka gets a haircut and slaps on a suit).

After Bowling For Columbine, he's gotta do somethign to top it. And the only topic that would get more people pissed off is 9/11. Abortion has been done, so he's running out of worthy material.

 

[Neural Shock]

Moore is a comedian first, and a politician second. While he is entertaining, his bleeding little heart nags more than it informs.

Yes indeed. His weakest point, IMHO, is that he himself is very much American.

After Bowling For Columbine, he's gotta do somethign to top it. And the only topic that would get more people pissed off is 9/11. Abortion has been done, so he's running out of worthy material.

In fairness there's a wealth of material. He's tackling the U.S. health care system next. Apparently.

 

[Banquo]

Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 Gets June 25 Release Source: Lions Gate Entertainment Wednesday, June 2, 2004

Harvey and Bob Weinstein, through the Fellowship Adventure Group, the newly created special-purpose company, have made arrangements for Michael Moore's Palme D'Or-winning Fahrenheit 9/11 to be released. Under this arrangement, the Fellowship Adventure Group will join with Lions Gate Films, the motion picture production and distribution arm of Lions Gate Entertainment, and IFC Films to distribute the film in theaters in the United States. Pay TV rights will be handled by Showtime, Lions Gate's Pay TV partner. The film will reach theaters nationwide on June 25th.

link

 

[BA]

Regarding the issue of the bank "giving" a gun away: I think j22 may be refering to how the movie makes it look as though the bank just hands over a rifle instantly after filling out the account paperwork. There's more to the process of "getting the gun" that the movie somehow left out..

 

[wanderlust]

did you want ten minutes of dead time?

"That scene where you got the gun in the bank was staged!"
Well of course it was staged! It's a movie! We built the "bank" as a set and then I hired actors to play the bank tellers and the manager and we got a toy gun from the prop department and then I wrote some really cool dialogue for me and them to say! Pretty neat, huh?

Or...

The Truth: In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country – "More Bang for Your Buck!"

There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. The Chicago Sun Times wrote about how the bank would "hand you a gun" with the purchase of a CD. Those are the precise words used by a bank employee in the film.

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" – that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 – and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms ("How do you spell Caucasian?") – which I am filling out here for the first time – the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database—which includes all federally approved gun dealers—lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the "OK" came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle (If you'd like to see the outtakes, click here ).

 

[BA]

The audience never sees the process whereby the bank requires Moore to produce photo identification, then contacts the FBI for a criminal records check on Moore, before he is allowed to take possession of the rifle. Moments later, Moore is handed his new rifle in the North Country Bank & Trust lobby, at which point he asks another unnamed bank employee, “Do you think it’s a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?”

It is a dazzling opening, full of energy, irony and Strangelovian absurdity. Only one problem plagues it's cleverness: It was staged.

Indeed, there's more, a lot more, to this story. In an interview, Jan Jacobson, the woman at this bank shown in the movie, says they were filmed for about an hour-and-a-half during which she explained everything to Moore in detail. But, the way things were presented in the film, Jacobson says, it looks like "a wham-bam thing." She says she resents the way she was portrayed as some kind of "backwoods idiot" mindlessly handing out guns. She says Moore deceived her into being interviewed by saying of their long-gun-give-away program: "This is so great. I'm a hunter, a sportsman, grew up in Michigan, am an NRA member." She says: "He went on and on and on saying this was the most unique program he'd ever heard of." This is the first example of how Moore completely deceives and manipulates his subjects to be made to look stupid in his film. Unfortunately, it is not the last and more unfortunately, an ignorant audience plays patsy to Moore's dishonest depiction. In fact, despite what BFC wants us to believe, Jacobson says there are no long-guns at her bank. The 500 guns mentioned in the movie are in a vault four hours away.

To take possession of the gun, the depositor must:

-Produce photo identification; making it inescapably certain that the robber would be identified and caught.

-Give the bank at least a thousand dollars -- (an unlikely way to start a robbery) .

-Spend at least a half hour at the bank, thereby allowing many people to see and identify him, and undergo an FBI background check, which would reveal criminal convictions disqualifying most of the people inclined to bank robbery.
here

Anyways, sorry to go sorta off-topic..

 

[honEbee]

The trailer was just released.

trailer

 

[DigitalDuality]

If this doesn't tell you how well this going to sell...

"Due to overwhelming demand, the Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer will be down temporarily.
Please check back later."

I don't know what will...

 

[wanderlust]

MICHAEL MOORE DOES SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN AGREE WITH!
i presume, even all you haters

last week moore decided to not release his 16 minute interview with nicholas berg (american beheaded in iraq last month)
instead he sent the tapes to berg's family. berg's brother says 'michael moore has been a total class act with this whole thing... he could have sold this to the media or stuck it in his movie'