FILM: Black Swan

[L2R]

you mean swan lake? in that case, fair point.

 

[EA-1475]

The Wrestler on the other hand is a character study. They are at first glance very similar films. Both wrestling/ ballet have seriously detrimental effects on the protagonists lives/ health yet they continue to strive for success because it is what they have always done. They don't know any different. If you can't empathize/ recognize how that^ applies metaphorically to life in general, that doesn't mean it isn't there.

That's pretty much my reading of the two movies. You got two entertainers who dedicate their lives to a craft that does not appear to give them any real or lasting happiness. In both cases, the observer watches these two and thinks "Jesus, wouldn't you be happier just quitting and living a normal life surrounded by people who give a damn about you?

The question asked by both movies is "Why?"

 

[TheDeceased]

Yeah I was drunk. I meant Swan Lake.

You could look at Swan Lake literally and conclude that it is about a half woman /half swan, full stop. Like you said Black Swan is about ballet, full stop. But really there are mutual themes in both narratives. As a couple of people have said the film mirrors the ballet. What is common to both narratives is the transformation of a young woman into adulthood, more or less.

She literally goes from living the life of a child to being a confident, sexually liberated woman. It's black and white. There's her world with the childlike room and stuffed toys (as Raz said), the overbearing mother that treats her like she's a little girl, her exaggerated naivety, etc. and then there's the adult world with it's blunt sexual comments (instructor man telling her to masturbate, asking her if she likes sex), the sexually uninhibited temptress character, the drugs, etc.

Honestly I'd say that the broader themes of the film are more significant than the context (ballet). You could tell the same story about all sorts of different performance artists or, as it was originally told, about a poultry princess. Although the film is clearly some sort of homage to the world of ballet, the core of the story is not ballet.

That's pretty much my reading of the two movies. You got two entertainers who dedicate their lives to a craft that does not appear to give them any real or lasting happiness. In both cases, the observer watches these two and thinks "Jesus, wouldn't you be happier just quitting and living a normal life surrounded by people who give a damn about you?

The question asked by both movies is "Why?"

Yeah they share the same question but are still very different films. L2R said he thought they were both character studies. I disagree. While both films focus heavily on their protagonist, Swan is driven by tension/madness rather than character depth/development. The Wrestler is purely character-driven drama. Black Swan is an ultra-stylish Thriller/Horror/Mystery with emphasis on special effects and cinematography.

 

[Rasclatt]

I dont know I think alot of stuff in the film is left a bit open.

Spoiler: blackswan

All that stuff with her scratching herself (which was presented as being a thing that she had been doing for a long time), suggested to me that the "black swan" was always inside her and just took over more when she actually had to try and play the role. Looking at it all literally it kind of seemed like she was a bit mental and probably had split personality disorder or something ha, thats pretty much how I saw it anyway.

loved this movie, best new film i've seen in a while.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I saw Black Swan last night and LOVED IT!!! Loved it loved it loved it. I haven't seen a new movie for ages and I'm glad I made the effort to go and see this.

I felt psychotic afterwards though, holy shiiet!!

 

[L2R]

Yeah I was drunk. I meant Swan Lake.

You could look at Swan Lake literally and conclude that it is about a half woman /half swan, full stop. Like you said Black Swan is about ballet, full stop. But really there are mutual themes in both narratives. As a couple of people have said the film mirrors the ballet. What is common to both narratives is the transformation of a young woman into adulthood, more or less.

She literally goes from living the life of a child to being a confident, sexually liberated woman. It's black and white. There's her world with the childlike room and stuffed toys (as Raz said), the overbearing mother that treats her like she's a little girl, her exaggerated naivety, etc. and then there's the adult world with it's blunt sexual comments (instructor man telling her to masturbate, asking her if she likes sex), the sexually uninhibited temptress character, the drugs, etc.

Honestly I'd say that the broader themes of the film are more significant than the context (ballet). You could tell the same story about all sorts of different performance artists or, as it was originally told, about a poultry princess. Although the film is clearly some sort of homage to the world of ballet, the core of the story is not ballet.



Yeah they share the same question but are still very different films. L2R said he thought they were both character studies. I disagree. While both films focus heavily on their protagonist, Swan is driven by tension/madness rather than character depth/development. The Wrestler is purely character-driven drama. Black Swan is an ultra-stylish Thriller/Horror/Mystery with emphasis on special effects and cinematography.

t_d, where we differ in our interpretations is i'm incluiding the presence of a pre-existing bulimia condition. her mother's babying of her was not inexplicable. people with eating disorders are generally as fragile emotionally as they are physically. the passion which she was holding back is tied to this fragility. to unleash this passion, she was told to explore her sexuality and experimented with drugs and stuff.
whilst it has some parallel with swan lake, there are marked differences. so the analogy is not completely sound. to me this was, like in the wrestler, the costs of pursuing the dream (requiem much?). the costs of maintaining the physical and emotional states needed to perform an outstanding piece of art.

 

[TheDeceased]

I'm not questioning your eating disorder interpretation nor did I ever say that the mothers babying was inexplicable. Over the top, yes. But both of these things are literal elements of the plot. Swan Lake is not about swans. The Shining is not about a hotel. They are the means to the ends. Sex is a theme that recurs throughout Black Swan.

to me this was, like in the wrestler, the costs of pursuing the dream (requiem much?). the costs of maintaining the physical and emotional states needed to perform an outstanding piece of art.

Yes but the idea of risk also applies to other story - the progression of girl into woman. There are multiple antagonizing factors at play. The performance is one of them, but there is also the adult world of sex and drugs that she clearly isn't ready for. There is a strong parallel between her personal transformation and the transformation of her character on stage. They go hand in hand.

It is about the cost/ risk of devoting yourself entirely to art as you said, but is also about the cost/ risk involved in completely letting go, especially from a repressed state. Generally, outside of the context of ballet/sex, the film seemed to put forward a question of moderation - whether or not you can be too passionate, not just in your approach to your art but also in terms of sexual inhibitions/ drugs/ general behavior etc. The latter is far more universal.

Narratives typically contain universal messages at their core. Otherwise they would only speak to people who are directly involved with the subject matter.

the costs of maintaining the physical and emotional states needed to perform an outstanding piece of art.

I think this can be shaved down to a broader statement. To universalize it, I would take out the word art. This condition you described is part of being human, it doesn't only apply to art/ the entertainment industry. Lots of people do things/ work jobs/ etc that cause them serious physical/emotional harm and they continue to do so due to momentum or not knowing anything else, etc.

 

[yucatanboy2]

Amazing movie, very deep, and clearly discussion-starting, which is great!

 

[L2R]

this film made me miss my copy of perfect blue even more

 

[malakaix]

Absolutely loved this film, initially the trailer and previews didn't intice me much.. but knowing it was an Aronofsky film i decided to check it out.. and wow, it's not often you see such well-put together psychological thrillers, it was very intense and engaging.

as a devout Aronofsky fan, the fountain is my favorite, and I believe his best movie. it's truly beautiful genius.

Couldn't agree more, The Fountain is by far one of my all-time favorite films.