Fentanyl: A Free Press Special Report

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I'm not saying all the blame is his. There's plenty to go around. From the middlemen to the street level distributors. But ultimately he made it. It all started with his decision to make and distribute it. And what he made was a very potent fent analog that's beyond the cutting ability of a regular heroin distribution. He knew this and did it anyway.

IMO if you make a dangerous product, even if its illegal, that causes deaths you are accountable. The laws and whatever decisions are made by the end users are irrelevant. Manufacturing drugs, and using them, is illegal and anyone involved with them knows the risks. He certainly did, and now he's facing the consequences.
 
bingalpaws said:
And I've got a question that I just can't make any sense out of. I read that entire story btw, very interesting. But something from the beginning of it just doesn't make sense to me. They're saying that there are over 1,000 deaths from his batch that was enough for 80 million doses? I must be tarded or something, because the way I'm reading that just doesn't make sense. I'd have to imagine there are way more than 1,000 deaths for every 80,000,000 doses of just plain heroin, let alone fent.
I'm sure the answer is obvious and that I'm just missing something right in front of my eyes, but I can't figure that out.
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The amount of this illicit fent that got to the street was only a small fraction of what he had provided to sources in the US. Somewhere, there is a gang sitting on a HUGE amount of this fentanyl, working on getting it cut properly so that so many people won't die and lead the media to get involved, increasing police awareness drastically.

~CTdopeLove
 
ct - that crossed my mind, I just didn't think it that reasonable since ime hard drugs are seldom stored and held, they usually fly away from dealers very fast, I can't recall seeing anything stored. Although I can see that higher level (read: pounds of fent) people are prolly more rational and have better business skills when it comes to this kind of thing.

So what you're saying woudl be that his main distributors got it, released some, waited to see what happened, and then upon seeing the problems kept it held for later distribution?
 
Most likely there is more out there. According to him he produced about 10 keys worth.

We don't know how much got confiscated on the street, at the border, and at the mills. We also don't know where most went, but I think its fair to assume the majority got into the US.

Also, if he was the only producer, it was interesting to see how many places it reached. That demonstrates just how closely knit the dope world is.
 
phrozen said:
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IMO if you make a dangerous product, even if its illegal, that causes deaths you are accountable. The laws and whatever decisions are made by the end users are irrelevant. Manufacturing drugs, and using them, is illegal and anyone involved with them knows the risks. He certainly did, and now he's facing the consequences.
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So should heroin manufacturers get blamed for the thousands of OD's every year? heroin is a dangerous product too.

I dont know how the hell yall can say this JUST about the dude who made the fentanyl and not about EVERY SINGLE OTHER HARD DRUG manufacturer too. It aint NO different just cuz its fentanyl.

Yall should honestly know way better than that. especially this bein a harm reduction site, shouldnt yall be willing to take full responsibility for yourself as a drug user?

Its so weird to come in here where people test their pills, make sure their shit is clean, use clean rigs, do everything they can to make their drug use as safe as possible, and then be bitching cuz someone made some extremely pure clean opiate product, like somehow its his fault. Fentanyl is some strange shit in the way that it makes even straight minded ppl get all crazy headed when it comes to talkin about it.

Yall are supposed to be the ones that no matter what take control and know what youre doin, and to be whining like "what the fuck! someone made fentanyl and sold it!" is against everything youre supposed to stand for.

like alot of other ppl said, this dude didnt misrepresent it, he didnt sell it, he didnt shoot nobody up, he just made it plain and simple. he aint no more responsible than a marijuana grower whose customer gets too stoned to drive and crashes, or a e pill maker whose customer forgets to drink water and dehydrates, or a cocaine processor whose customer gets outta rehab and takes too big a line.
 
I bet 99% of the people who ODed on this shit got told it was heroin.

Hard to know who to blame.

I can't blame the chemist, who probably intended for the drug to be distributed in proper doses, I can't blame the customers who probably thought they where taking heroin, I can't blame the middle men, who probably never even saw pure junk before this, let alone pure fentanyl and had no chances of ever properly cutting it.

Bah, who knows.
 
lacey k said:
So should heroin manufacturers get blamed for the thousands of OD's every year? heroin is a dangerous product too.

I dont know how the hell yall can say this JUST about the dude who made the fentanyl and not about EVERY SINGLE OTHER HARD DRUG manufacturer too. It aint NO different just cuz its fentanyl.

Yall should honestly know way better than that. especially this bein a harm reduction site, shouldnt yall be willing to take full responsibility for yourself as a drug user?
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it's different because fentanyl is LETHAL at miniscule levels. a chemist and a drug manufacturer should appreciate this. he knows that bags aren't sold with warning labels. this is not about blaming typical drug dealers or drug users. it's about someone who acted with an extreme level of stupidity and/or harm towards others. it goes much farther than users being responsible for themsleves. i think this makes everyone involved with harm minimization look bad, cuz regardless of precautions, there's always gonna be one crazy yahoo that can kill 1000 people, regardless of user education
 
The same can be said of LSD.

Look at how insanely potent LSD is even in extremely tiny doses.

Is it irresponsible to make LSD?
 
the people who manufacture LSD -- which is a very low number -- either take responsibility for distribution methods by applying it to blotter or channel it so that people know what they are dealing with. you do not have hundreds of people accidentally taking massive acid doses each yr.
 
Nope, not the people who manufacture it, not usually.

They usually sell grams of LSD or more at a time, and then the middle men set it down on blotter.

So if the dealers they sold it to didn't know how to lay it down properly many people would be having a bad day.
 
but people know how to handle it properly. that is clearly not the case with an opioid which is massively more potent than 99.999% stuff on the street.
 
Yeah, can't argue with that, this drug definitely isn't being cut right.

Question is, do you blame the manufacturer, or the middle men?

Would you blame an LSD chemist if the people he sold to layed down blotter wrong?
 
lacey k said:
I dont know how the hell yall can say this JUST about the dude who made the fentanyl and not about EVERY SINGLE OTHER HARD DRUG manufacturer too. It aint NO different just cuz its fentanyl.
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WERD! It's unfair to demonize him more than it is ANY other illicit product. People get hurt from the entire gamut of substances, weak and strong ones. It's irrational to believe he's to blame when people use his fent and get hurt, but that coca farmers/processors aren't to blame when someone OD's on coke. These are dangerous products if used incorrectly. You cannot rationally demonize him because his dangerous product is on the more lethal end of the spectrum, unless you demonize every producer on the spectrum.
 
Banquo said:
but people know how to handle it properly. that is clearly not the case with an opioid which is massively more potent than 99.999% stuff on the street.
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But then couldn't you make your same arguments AGAINST lsd back then, as you are fent now? Cuz back then, when it first became popular, they didn't know how to handle it properly. Potent chemical usage, at least in LSD's case, seemed to evolve to a point where people understood how to properly use/distribute the stuff, but I'd say you need some trial and error in there before you're good at it (I know that sounds cold, but it's true). It seems that the MORE fent that gets out there, the more people will learn how to deal wiht the product, the more responsible people will be with its use, and eventually maybe fent will only be a blotter type product as well. But fent (illicit, clandestinely produced fent anyways) is a relatively new thing, and needs some time to grow before it's a 'mature' product/distribution setup.
 
bingalpaws said:
You cannot rationally demonize him because his dangerous product is on the more lethal end of the spectrum, unless you demonize every producer on the spectrum.
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all drugs are not equal. some are A LOT more dangerous than others. some demand a serious amount of respect and caution, like research chems and high-powered opioids for example. throwing fentanyl at heroin users is beyond irresponsbible. shipping 2C-E in caplets labeled as 5HTP would be just as dangerous. that is all i have to say on the matter...

:p
 
Banquo said:
some demand a serious amount of respect and caution, like research chems and high-powered opioids.
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They absolutely do, but the only way that people learn to use caution, and to respect these products, is through the black market, and this develops the occurences we're seeing here. People have to learn this way, because the products are illegal, and therefore harm reduction is seriously lacking. If his product was legal, he could just release a press report that new, stronger opiates will be in the marketplace. But it's not that simple. Harm reduction / drug education should be what is depended upon to practice using these substances safely. We don't have those in any sufficient degree. So, does that mean that, since the gov doesn't approve of these types of usages, and therefore doesn't allow them and does not provide any real drug education, that it is inherently unethical to produce illicit drugs? Or is fent the sole one that should bear the blame, while producing cocaine is okay, since it's risks are lower? I just don't see how you can say he's irresponsible for producing fent, if you don't say the same thing about anyone producing any illicit drug which has lethal properties.
 
Fent and similar drugs with extremely low OD thresholds are different. Why can't you people understand that? Some drugs are more dangerous than others and should be treated differently. Period.

Even the gov't knows this and responds to it with their scheduling. Whether the substance is legal or not doesn't matter.

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As for him misrepresenting his product, I'm not sure about that. In the video he first states that it's heroin, and then states that it's synthetic heroin. Who knows what he told his distributors...
 
As for the comparison to coke and heroin manufacturers:

That's a different market altogether. It's an established drug where people know the doses(more or less), know what the active ingredient is, and isn't deadly at the mcg level. They know that the average person can cut the drug. With fentanyl, he knew that they couldn't cut it. This isn't the first fentanyl outbreak. It's happened in Pittsburgh, NYC, and California before with similar results.
 
Banquo said:
throwing fentanyl at heroin users is beyond irresponsbible. shipping 2C-E in caplets labeled as 5HTP would be just as dangerous. that is all i have to say on the matter...

:p
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but HE DIDNT DO THAT!

The MIDDLEMEN did!

You are blaming the source for the actions of the seller who bought from him.
 
lurkerguy said:
The same can be said of LSD.

Look at how insanely potent LSD is even in extremely tiny doses.

Is it irresponsible to make LSD?
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The same could be said about doses of LSD, but one VERY MAJOR difference is involved.

A little more LSD on a blotter, and hey you trip a bit harder.

A little more fentanyl in the bag and you DIE
 
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